 Poster: A snowHead
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Friday's press release by the newly formed Gstaad 3000 SA investment company revealed that a certain Bernie Ecclestone is one of the main players coming to the rescue of the bankrupt Les Diablerets lift operators...
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 26-09-05 22:12; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Could Bernie be planning for retirement from F1 ?
Now that A1GP has kicked off, and with the apparant unrest within the f1 community about the concorde agreement, he may be looking to cut his losses before the A1GP series gets a foothold on his tv coverage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| srobbo wrote: |
| Could Bernie be planning for retirement from F1 ? ... he may be looking to cut his losses |
And what losses would those be? 
Isn't Bernie a very wealthy man from his stranglehold on F1?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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not unusual for Gstaad though...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From the article in Le Temps, the receivers have accepted a mere 5 million Swiss Francs from the three main players in the purchase, who have picked up assets worth something in the region of SF 84 million - not just the lift infrastructure, but the "prestigious" mountain restaurant as well...
(Sounds as if the taxpayer is picking up the bill for all the losses that have been written off...)
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The restaurant's very good actually. It's a great ski station and very popular, not much known in the UK of course.
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ise,
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. It's a great ski station and very popular, not much known in the UK of course.
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If that were true, so how come I've known about it for the last 15 years? I'm not particularly well informed about small Swiss resorts either. Perhaps you are underestimating the typical British skier, we ski around y'know.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise, but we are snowHeads - not your 'typical British skiers' 
Looks like Bernie and his boys have got a bargain. A canny operator. But I can never figure out why he didn't marry someone more closely matched to his own height. They do look like the odd couple.
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ise,
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I'm sure I read some well known Internet ski pundit pompously pointing out it was an area of little interest
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Perhaps you could quote source. I believed that I was reading your opinion, not that of someone whom you clearly don't agree with 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A couple of points on this:
Bernie Ecclestone is, to my eyes, a disgrace to business. His early act of corrupting the Blair government - which, of course, must account for itself - revealed the kind of guy he is. A £1 million donation to the Labour Party, subsequently returned under huge embarrassment, was all we need to know about Ecclestone.
Background: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/940037.stm
Whether there's anything murky about Ecclestone buying a Swiss ski area is quite another matter. There's no evidence that he's bought these assets below their market value. It seems speculative to assume that the assets are worth 84 million Swiss francs. They are physically immobile assets and were built by a company that went bust, so the price his new company paid is probably the true value. Although dodgy deals take place with the repurchase of assets of bankrupt companies, one has to assume that the liquidators sold them on an open competitive basis (without evidence to the contrary).
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| Quote: |
| There's no clear evidence that he's bought these assets below their market value. |
True, but knowing what we know about the man and his business methods I doubt very much he paid over the odds and I bet he thinks he got a good deal. Why else would he invest in the area? Still if it keeps a ski area and a decent restaurant open for business, we shouldn't complain about a 'guardian angel' and his cherubim.
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You know it makes sense.
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I would imagine that he probably paid whatever the banks were asking which may well have been less than the actual cost of the development, I know of a Swiss hotel that cost almost 10M Sfr to build that sold at auction for just over 2M Sfr when the bank that held the mortgage sold it
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Over the last 8 years, according to the report in Le Temps, the cost of constructing the lift system and the restaurant amounted to 84 million Swiss Francs. The infrastructure is relatively new therefore, and it would not be unreasonable to suggest that if a similar project on a virgin Diablerets glacier were to be costed today, it would amount to something in that region.
The article also suggests that certain hefty debts (owed to the region etc) are to be written off. In exchange the local authorities have obtained guarantees of some 13 million SF further investment in the resort by Gstaad 3000 over the next two years.
Le Temps also hints that there was little choice as there were no other offers. "Value" is a relative term. Depends on how desperate the seller is, to a considerable extent...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Personally I prefer the guardians of ski areas - particularly highly sensitive high-Alpine environments - to be their local communities. If Ecclestone+Co. are willing to comply with rigorous environmental standards in operating Les Diablerets then fine.
Has anyone actually complained that the assets of Les Diablerets have been sold cheap? e.g. a competing bidder? He paid 5 million SFr for the assets, PG reckons the assets are worth 84 million SFr. Where's the evidence?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, er. "PG" reckons nothing of the sort. "PG" was reading the summary of the press conference in Le Temps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's on the record, Pete! You stated yesterday: "... the three main players in the purchase ... have picked up assets worth something in the region of SF 84 million"
If one builds something like:
at a cost of £600 million
that doesn't mean that it's worth more than peanuts, in relative terms, now.
The Les Diablerets lift system, and mountain restaurant etc, were white elephants in business terms.
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David Goldsmith, what is actually on the record is the following:
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From the article in Le Temps, the receivers have accepted a mere 5 million Swiss Francs from the three main players in the purchase, who have picked up assets worth something in the region of SF 84 million - not just the lift infrastructure, but the "prestigious" mountain restaurant as well...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We all accept that construction cost does not equal present day value. Some things appreciate. Some devalue. Clearly a bankrupt facility cannot be sold for it's original cost but it rather looks as though the write-down and the hit absorbed by the taxpayers have been very substantial in this case. Bernie and his associates (especially if they were, as stated, the only bidders) will surely have driven a hard bargain. These are neither philanthropically minded snow sports enthusiasts nor seeking to have a 'private' resort - as far as I know. This is being purchased as a business proposition.
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kuwait_ian, a very fair summary of the situation as I see it.
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Pete, this can be rapidly resolved. Is there a link to the Le Temps article?
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Directly linked to at 9.20 pm last night before the original post here was entered.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't speak any French, but even I can see 84 million. Wouldn't have a clue what it was referring to though
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Elizabeth B, my franglais is pretty poor aussi - but PG's a qualified translator so I'll happily accept his efforts. PG has been quoting a press release - others here (including me) have been speculating. That's what forums are all about. No need for another battle over journalistic integrity.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| Le prix de la transaction: 5,05 millions de francs. Une paille au regard des 84 millions investis depuis 1997 pour construire le prestigieux téléphérique du col du Pillon et surtout le coûteux restaurant imaginé par l'architecte tessinois Mario Botta. |
The cost of the deal: SF 5.05 million. A "snip" when set against the 84 million invested since 1997 to build the prestigious Col du Pillon cable car, and especially the costly restaurant designed by the Tessinois architect Mario Botta.
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| Reste que ce rachat bernois d'installations largement financées par les contribuables vaudois laisse un goût amer dans la gorge de Philippe Nicollier, dont la commune a égaré 1,9 million dans l'affaire. «On peut dire que les Vaudois ont abandonné Glacier 3000. En même temps il faut aussi reconnaître que le modèle dual, public-privé, a montré ses limites. Nous n'avons pas la philosophie pour exploiter un tel outil. Finalement, ce rachat est une bonne solution. En elle-même, mais surtout parce que c'était la seule...» |
"The fact remains that the Berne-originated purchase of infrastructure largely financed by the Vaudois taxpayer has left a bitter taste in the mouth of Philippe Nicollier, whose local authority has written off SF 1.9 million in this affair. "One might suggest that the Vaudois people have abandoned Glacier 3000. At the same time, we should recognise that the public/private collaboration model has shown its limitations. We didn't have the right approach to make this operation work. In the final analysis, this purchase is the right solution. As it stands, but especially because it was all there was on offer...."
Obviously "investment" doesn't equate to value on the company's books, but while some of the infrastructure may have depreciated (though not hugely given its recent installation) the restaurant could well have appreciated in value, in line with property prices around most of the Alps.
The final sentence is key. It was the only offer forthcoming, the receivers had little choice, it seems.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks.
kuwait_ian, I've no idea why you drag the phrase "journalistic integrity" into this. All I've queried is whether Ecclestone bought assets worth any more than the amount he paid. No one has presented any evidence that he did. Presumably the assets were professionally and independently valued for the liquidator, and we have to assume that there was some sort of transparent bidding process, since the matter was clearly under intense local scrutiny by the local politicians and press.
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David, I've PM'd.
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You know it makes sense.
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he will do it up and sell it to the russians.. be afraid skiers, the russians are coming they are bored of the med caost
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| since the matter was clearly under intense local scrutiny by the local politicians and press. |
actually, it's not. Where's the evidence to support this remark?
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Poster: A snowHead
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All over the place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| All over the place. |
But, for example, where? It was mentioned on the local radio where I heard it which is how it came to be on MySnowSports, a few minutes after it appeared there you "reported" it as well. It's been on the radio again and in Le Temps but most people here are unaware and really not much interested.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ise,
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It's hard to know what to think if it turns out some of the stuff you read on the internet turns out to be just made up
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I agree absolutely, and I'm clearly far too trusting and must learn not to believe all that I read.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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For goodness sake....Bernie is one of a consortium.
They are capatalists.
They sought to get the best business deal they could.
They were willing buyers, the receivers were willing sellers.
If you think it was such a bargain...where was your bid?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CANV CANVINGTON, The Russians have already arrived in Chamonix and Megeve, I have seen lots of them. They all seem to drive smart cars, have oodles of money and seem to like spending it
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rungsp wrote: |
For goodness sake....Bernie is one of a consortium.
They are capatalists.
They sought to get the best business deal they could.
They were willing buyers, the receivers were willing sellers.
If you think it was such a bargain...where was your bid? |
Beg pardon? What's that got to do with the price of fish? 
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PG, don't be so coy, you know we (MySnowSports) offered to buy them out and our bid was 99 quid and some chocolate, the deal fell apart when a leading expert valued the station as being of no interest.
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ise,
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our bid was 99 quid and some chocolate
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Was it Swiss chocolate?. A really good quality one might just have swung the deal. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise,
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the deal fell apart when a leading expert valued the station as being of no interest.
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You keep on mentioning this "expert"/pundit, come on cough up the name
Perhaps there are more than one, and they may have a valid point that you have not disclosed here:-D
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FAQ
can work out the journalistic inference and innuendo in this one 