Tech resit or retake?

A snowHead

Ok so anyone reading the current BASI news will know that I have a little problem with my piste longs Embarassed

and ended up with level 2 for that. (Everything else was evenly split level 4/3)

Question is when you do a tech resit will they only be looking at your progress in the skill that you require or will they be re-assesing you against all the skills? could you for example pass against a previously failed skill and fail against a previously passed skill?

A snowHead

I think, but might be wrong, that you have to reach the standard in all the elements when you re-sit. Previous performance is not taken in to account.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks Rob, that was what I thought,

I may just take the full course again as there is more flexibilty on dates/locations

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has your skking improved ?
It may be an idea to check
in each of the big fridges in the uk there is a trainer. Not sure about this but it may be possible to book a lesson with a trainer and you could ask them to give you some feedback.

Just an idea.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

has your skking improved ?
It may be an idea to check
in each of the big fridges in the uk there is a trainer. Not sure about this but it may be possible to book a lesson with a trainer and you could ask them to give you some feedback.

Just an idea.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Wayne,

I have been working on it Embarassed

The reccomendation of the feedback was to try to resit before the end of the season. Im not going to go with that timeframe though as I think I need more time to get to aquired in the movement pattern, even if it was a "nearly there" originally.

Its a good idea to try and get a session with one of the trainers though.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Don't you have to be at 5 in piste longs? Shocked

(We do on snowboards at L2).

After all it is free

Buy good slalom ski to help performance.

stevomcd, you do have to be a Level 5 at piste longs (i.e. carving) which IIRC means an almost autonomous action.

kevindonkleywood, quite a gap between Level 2 and 5 but if you're ok at everything else you should be able to pick it up. I would make absolutely sure you're at the level before you do the resit so you don't waste your money. If you're not a borderline candidate (which you shouldn't be once you've sorted the carving) there's no point in retaking the whole course.

I don't know what you ski on but IMO the best way to learn carving is on a ski with around a 70mm waist and a turn radius of 15-17m. A slalom ski turns too tightly to be relaxed on if you're not used to the feelings. Go somewhere with a load of long blue runs where it's easy to stop and look back up the hill at your tracks to be sure they're clean, sharp, tramlines all around the arc, especially at the apex which IME is where most people screw it up. If your tramlines are clean, you'll pass.

Alternatively, get some blades. No, really. Especially if you've only got a fridge to play in. I was first taught to carve by the renowned Phil Smith (Snoworx now, was then The Ski Company?) on one of his performance courses when he took the whole group out for a half day on blades. The logic was simple - blades are ONLY stable when in a carve. You very quickly learn what the correct feelings and movements are to keep them stable on an edge throughout the turn (think long leg, short leg). Once you know what the feeling is, it's easy to transfer the movements to a normal ski and recognise the correct feedback from the snow. Good luck.

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Raceplate, stevomcd, they dont use levels 1-6 anymore for assessment...

if you only missed one strand take the resit but train your ass off until you are above the level for that strand, not there or there abouts, you look solid, trainer recons i should be okay. etc... in the exam you will most likely pucker up a bit and not perform when the trainers are looking so factor that in..

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Raceplate, they have separated the performance rating from where you are on the learner phases

Ratings are now 1 not at level, 2 nearly at level, 3 at leve 4 beyond, this is used at all Levels now instead of the old way of at level 4 you needed to be 4/6 and L3 ISIA 5/6.. now you need to score 3's to pass for any course.

you are still given a learning phase "grade" as well but not a number but early or late cognitive, associative or autonomous to tell you if you need to practice more in an area.

better in my view

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

kevindonkleywood, Join your local race club..best way to sort your skiing ! I would not bother with a re-sit, just do the whole thing again.. much easier on you. I did the same on my (then) Grade 2 tech in 1994/5 snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Oops.

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Wayne, Thanks very much for the explanation.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

kevindonkleywood, for my two penneth worth I think they will concentrate on your carving when you take the resit and how much you have progressed over the week but you still will need to be at the level in the other areas on the last day.

Are you going to do the whole two weeks again or just the one week tech as I only ever see Hintertux popping up as an option and its not that easy to get to from Newcastle.

I like ski's idea about going to a race club ( silksworth for us) but I worry about been the only old bloke there as the kids dont want to go and I can't ski gates. But I know I should as i want to do the Coach development course to start ticking a few of the level 3 boxes.

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Curtains, you wouldn't be the only old bloke at Silksworth, as there are several Ravens masters racing on the dry-slope national circuit -although they are pretty good Sad

- and I see there were also a few from the Tigers dipping their toes in the water at in last year's Sunderland Club National race (but they clearly found it a lot more difficult).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

GrahamN, I took my kids for a couple of months two years ago but they didnt enjoy it, I did but didnt get much better it has to be said Sad

.

Having done my level 2 this year my skiing has improved and I can now carve ( it took 2 weeks of practice to get to the level so i know what kevindonkleywood, went through) -

Its strange that I should feel uneasy at the thought of going without kids and been old - know if I could drag kevindonkleywood, along to that would be better - unless he/she is only 16 lol Toofy Grin

I would be curious to find out how good at gates you need to be to pass the coach development level 1 course Puzzled

After all it is free

rob@rar, cheers

it was just that on the BASI site it said :

Students are assessed on their ability to ski slalom and giant slalom turns on easy blue piste terrain as well as their ability to reflect on their coaching.

I presumed that if I did it in a fridge we would end up sking some gates but I shouldn't have assumed that cause it doesnt really say that Embarassed

skiin gates still has to be good for your overall skiing so I might bite the bullet and go next week Toofy Grin

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Curtains, definitely go and do some gates. Great fun and good training. It was a couple of years ago that I did Coach 1 and it has changed since then, so it might include gates now.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Not sure if this will be any good as was a few years ago and it may have all changed since then, also this was the L2 coach not L1. But it may be of some interest.

Copied from an old thread on Sh's.

*******************************************

Greetings from the hotel Hohenhaus in Hintertux.
If you are thinking of doing your level 2 coach this may be a little help. BUT note that each course is different so your course may not run like this but I have been told is quite standard.

Skiing standard
IMO to pass easily you will need to be an ISIA tech level (I would take it first to save money ?). There is an “enormous” difference in the skiing ability needed for the level 1 coach and the level 2.
Hope this helps as there are sod all details on the basi website.
________________________________________
Day 1
Shown how to set up a simple GS course.
Use of drill and key
Difference between Outside and Inside gates
Distances between gates
Etc
Then set up the course as a group with correct distances (across and down the hill) between gates.
Ski the GS course a number of times

Drills
• Jumping (Fore and Aft movement)
o Poles are laid flat on the floor across the fall line a couple of meters apart. Then you ski (schuss) down and jump over each pole – you must not touch any of the poles.
o As last but with odd number obstacles being 2 poles stuck in floor and crossed (making an A shape). Schuss down jumping over even numbered obstacles and under odd numbers. (Fore, Aft and Vertical movement) this is a quite fast drill as you are schussing, so picking up a good amount of speed.
• 1 Leg skiing on both legs (Lateral movement)
o Progression – Travers on 1 leg – Traverse on 1 leg, hopping on the leg – Traverse and turn (1 leg) hopping – ski 1 leg / fall line rolling – 1 leg carving. At this level you should not just be able to do it, but do it stacked. Note, Stacked (on 1 leg) is a higher, more upright stance than normal.

Afternoon
Lectures and discussions on biomechanics
Demonstration and methods of ski service
• New (just out of the box) ski service
Filing various edge angles
• Waxing
• Etc

________________________________________

Day 2

Group split into smaller groups to set up course using correct distances between gates.
Ski gate quite a few times with feedback.
Generally not looking for tremendous speed but rather a flowing controlled run

Drills
Set 2 lines of parallel stubbies down the fall line (quite steep). Distance between them a few centimetres more than your ski length – in all of these a fail is if you touch the stubbies.
• Side slipping (fore and aft movement)
o (Not so) simple side slip each way down track
o Falling leaf around stubbies (fore and aft and rotational movements)
o Sliding turns in the track (fore and aft and rotational movements and control)
• Slide down track and turn the opposite direction
o Stem turn
o Jump turn
o Rotational spin
• Hockey stop inn tracks (fore and aft movements)
• Ski down to tracks in schuss from above into tracks then stop (not as simple as it sounds)

Change over and change under drills (after lunch)
Did not do these as had to go to village as took a massive wipe out below the gates. Really thankful was wearing good quality helmet but even with that was not too good afterwards. Was the biggest, fastest and worst wipe-out have had in over 30 years of skiing (and I have lots). But am told that being unconscious as you cart wheel down the slope is best bet and you’re more relaxed – so that’s OK then ?

Afternoon
Lectures and discussions on reviewing skills and action plans.

________________________________________

Day3
Still can’t lift my right arm above lower chest height, have to put boots on in hotel room as can’t bend down as lower back is also well battered (still) from wipe out, but will give it a go. (ha ha must admit that pathetic attempt to put on my socks takes over 10 minutes)

Set up gates
Set up stubby course above gates
Set up stubby box (2.5m wide by 10m down)

Stubby course is set so you go from that straight into this gates, this gives you chance to get into momentum prior to hitting gates. Few times down this run with feed back if wanted after each run.

Drills
• Hockey stops (test Pass or Fail, rotation and fore and aft movement)
o Schuss down hill into stubby box then stop without touching stubbies. Do this with stop in both directions.
• One leg skiing (test P or F, balance, extension and lateral movement)
o Carve down red run on one ski. Stay in corridor about 4m wide showing good edging with no rotation.
• White Pass turns (test P or F, extension and lateral movement)
o These involve lifting the out ski at the start of the turn and place back on ground in fall-line. It’s important to extend up and into the turn (on one leg). Note these are not the same as charlestons.
• Some other turn which never got the name of ? (test P or F, Timing)
o In a carved turn tap you down hill pole at the fall line and then again in the middle of the turn and at the start of the next – on the last tap lift your new inside ski and carve on one leg to the fall line then put it down and start again.

Afternoon
Video review of gates runs
Practice of off-snow exercises and self tests for balance (great fun and highly amusing to everyone watching you)

________________________________________
Day 4

Go up in morning set up gates.
Do all drills (see above) to a high standard of accuracy and you will pass, don’t and you won’t. Dead simple.
Do timed race around the gates showing good GS technique. Again, you need to do this.

If you come to Hintertux to do it – take down gates and ski down the bumps with them on your shoulder as it’s the only route back to the cable car.

________________________________________

PS, I passed.

snow reports

Wayne, thanks - I found there was a jump between level 1 to 2 Alpine and know thats its a massive step up to level 3.

Since I have never really skied gates and havent been told the correct line/timing etc I think I might struggle even at level 1 as its only a three day course. that why i thought about doing gates over the summer and doing the development coach at a dome in October.

Pleased you passed - i take it you did it enroute to your level 4 Smile

- I think I have watched some of your you tube videos of you doing the bumps on tommeuses in a strange hat Laughing

( sorry if its not you tho lol)

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

There is an official BASI youtube channel. Don't think there are any coach course levels on there yet though.

http://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialBASI?feature=watch

A snowHead

A snowHead

Curtains,
You should be ok with the L1 coach as there is no course setting or skiing of courses on this. It's probably best to do this, then work with other coaches and do some race training yourself (SL and GS) before going for the L2 as the skiing standard of the L2 is significantly higher than the 1.

There are a number of L1's being run over the summer by both BASI and UKSS (SSE). As a BASI member, you can attend either. the courses are the same and will count for both organisations.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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rob@rar,
Yeah you're right about that.

I think they are still using the old system but just with a few extra bits chucked in.
1 Never heard of it
2 Yep, know what it is but can't do it but i'll have a go
3 yeah I can sort of do it
4 I can do it most of the time
5 I can do it
6 sorted

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Wayne, sorry i guess i am not being clear... from my post above but let me rephrase it..

BASI have separated your assessment grade from where you are on the F&P learner phases

Your PASS FAIL assessment is now based solely on your actual performance irrespective of what stage of learning you may be at and is given to you as

1 not at level
2 nearly at level
3 at level
4 beyond the level

This is used at all Levels now instead of the old way of at say at level 4 ISTD you needed to be 5/6 on the F&P scale and at L2 only 3/6 on say bumps.

So, for example you are an ex ski racer and can perform the task at L2 shorts but you have been asked to make substantive changes and are still in the early practice/associative phase with all the changes asked of you but are still able to perform the task at the required level for your exam so you get a passing grade of 3 (at the level). They have eliminated the number scheme for the learner phases to avoid confusion and to get people to understand the learning phases better

you are still given a learning phase "mark" as well but not a number but early or late cognitive (EC LC), associative (E Ass L Ass) or autonomous (E Aut L Aut) to help guide you to the areas that need more attention.
They have gone back to the terms of Cognitive, Associative and Autonomous which I find confusing as opposed to Awareness, Practice and Acquired which I find more understandable and less scientific, but that just me...

you need to score 3's (at the level) to pass and strand in any course. You are also given a estimate by the trainer of what learning phase you are in on each task so you can continue your development after the course, much better in my view.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

rob@rar, Last week I found myself at the old zero phase "I don't know" aka the WTF stage when asked to do a drill i hadn't seen before and couldn't comprehend let alone attempt

After all it is free

skimottaret,
Thanks for that. Very informative.
Poss I should go and do some BASI courses now and again just to see what's going on.
(Maybe I would get put down to L1 again Laughing

)

Not sure why they keep changing stuff all the time, I would vote for:
1
Early = WTF was that
Late = that wasn't exactly what I asked you to do now was it"

2
Early = not sure this is working, is it, have you ever considered another sport
Late = You're getting there

3
Early = But can you do it on a slope that's not blue
Late = Hmmmmm, yeah not too bad

4
Early = yep, that's about right
Late = OK, OK, but can you do this

with kids assessments on where they are at i use

I'm Stumpted
Frustrated or Struggling
Tentative
Trying Hard
Its easy
In the Zone

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A big 'thank you' to everyone for the advice.

I am still thinking about the best way forward but my priority at the moment is fitness as the last 4 years of being a desk jockey have not done me any good.

Curtains, sadly I am not 16 Sad

...If I was Very Happy

i would have it sorted by now.

I would like to be able to get over to Silksworth soem time for a few runs.

Wayne, The new manual has various drills detailed in it where Level 4 is defined as "Level 3 with your pants round your ankles"

I would suggest that there is another universal negative level set

-1 There is a trainer on the slope.
-2 The trainer is watching you
-3 The trainer has a video camera
-4 The trainer is an attractive lady with a video camera.

Help!!

Tech resit or retake?

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