 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all,
After spending all my skiing in Europe I am getting some pressure from my skiing partner to consider North America. Does anyone have any opinions on the best places to go. Just to help focus your thoughts here is what we usually go for.
We love doing lots of mileage. Not necesserily one resort, although we love 3 valleys, but this year did ADH, LDA and Serre Chevalier in a week which was cool. We like the variety.
We tend to be red run skiers, although like good non-moguled blacks as well - knees and technique can't handle the bumps.
We like a good pub/bar but we aren't going to be partying all night, we are there for the skiing not the nightlife.
We have always staying in chalets, like getting fed, don't like cooking but going out for meals is OK.
Would appreciate anyone's thoughts / ideas
Cheers
Sid
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stay in Europe. Your partners were wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abc is right. IME red/black equivalents in Canada at least are often left unpisted & catered accommodation is not the norm.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well I can live without the Catered accommodation and go out to eat, thats not a problem.
Are you saying that there are no Red or Black pistes in North America?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kosciosco wrote: |
Well I can live without the Catered accommodation and go out to eat, thats not a problem.
Are you saying that there are no Red or Black pistes in North America? |
Never been, but I get the impression they are more often left 'au natural,' and the ungroomed but inbounds stuff seems to be the main attraction. If you want loads of bashed groomers, you're probably better off in Europe (I think most resorts are much smaller in NA).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
If you want loads of bashed groomers, you're probably better off in Europe (I think most resorts are much smaller in NA).
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Yes, the only reason to go to US/Canada and spend more money is for the offpist,
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kosciosco the colours are green, blue, black (single diamond and double diamond). As far as Whistler is concerned I can only think of four black runs that get pisted on a regular basis and they're all on Whistler mountain; Upper Dave Murray, Lower Dave Murray (although the part of the run called the Weasel is not groomed often), Raven and Bear Paw. I think Wild Card and Jimmy's Joker might get groomed too sometimes but they're both quite short. There's another on Blackcomb (Catskinner) that I think gets groomed occasionally but usually it's a bump run. The great thing about Whistler is the amount of skiable terrain that is available including pistes, 'off piste' areas and tree runs. They don't talk about kms of piste/trail but acres of terrain. I think it's easy to get hung up about the colours though as the blue run that follows much of the ladies downhill course (lower Franz's) has some quite steep pitches on it too and the top section of the Saddle is more akin to a red run IMHO.
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you want loads of bashed groomers, you're probably better off in Europe (I think most resorts are much smaller in NA).
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Yes, the only reason to go to US/Canada and spend more money is for the offpist, |
Not true - although I go there for that reason. The glorious thing about groomers in many North American resorts is that they're completely deserted. Nothing ruins a good groomer more than having to share it with other skiers IMV. And, because they're deserted, the grooming stays immaculate from the first to the last lift. For that reason, if I were a lover of pisted runs I'd certainly consider a trip to the States.
This image perfectly illustrates my point. After Vail, Big Sky is the second biggest ski area in the USA measured by skiable acres; but, as it only attracts around 2,000 skiers per day, the slopes are completely empty. The picture shows the one of the runs back to the base area at around 3:00pm during President's week - that's to say, it's at one of the busiest runs in the resort shown at the busiest time of one of the busiest days of the year. As you can see, it's deserted.
When you compare that picture to peak time St Anton, Courchevel, Tignes, Zermatt, etc, it's not hard to understand why people make the journey to the Rockies.
But you have to sacrifice a few things in North America. Catered Chalets don't really exist in most resorts. Even the largest resorts are very small compared with places like the Three Valleys. Fine dining doesn't exist on the mountain - although it's usually available in resorts - and lunch typically comprises noting more sophisticated than a bowl of chilli, a bratwurst or a very large tortilla wrap. But, on the other hand, your accommodation will probably be palatially spacious and very likely a short stroll from the slopes (although that obviously varies by resort); you'll have a fantastic outdoor hot tub and swimming pool to relax after skiing; and, contrary to popular perception, the beer will be much, much, much better than in Europe as most mountain towns have local microbreweries that produce a wide range of real ales and lagers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All the talk about crowded piste in Europe, I've been lucky enough not to encounter ANY!
Granted, I purposely avoided half term time.
(to be fair, piste in N America are often more deserted, because half of the people had gone off-piste!  )
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 15-04-12 22:13; edited 1 time in total
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Renting a car is a good idea
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| nomadicanna wrote: |
| Renting a car is a good idea |
Right... Jet lag, small mountain, un-pisted runs, driving on the wrong side of the road!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I went over to Whistler, Colorado and Vermont all by hired cars and didn't have any bother on the wrong side of the road as I drive regularly to the Alps too.
Many American resorts are of decent sizes even they are not as big as those in the Alps. Colorado is hard to beat as you find Loveland, Keystone, Brenckenrdige, Copper Mountain, Vail and Beaver Creek on the successive juctions of one highway. How about Aspen? That must be a place worth a visit.
North American resorts do not groom every piste and you need to ask the groomed piste map of the day (handed out at the resort if you are early). The ski pass can be 40% more expensive than the Europe. Food is slightly cheaper or on par. Cheap accommodation could be hard to find but OK if you have a car and can travel.
Due to the extra cost to fly there, hiring a car and pay over the odd for the ski pass cost NA isn't a place for value for money and one needs to do 10 days or two weeks to make the trip worthwhile. It is still an experience one need to try especially if you can manage to ski a few of them in one trip.
Big American and Canada resorts have just many groomed piste like Europe but they do groom everyone especially during the season where not many visitors are around. In the pist grading the red is omitted but they do have single, double diamond black and double diamond with EX (extreme skiing).
I personally did not find the NA skiing resorts that much different from Europe but I would recommend the better ones because one should not go to a resort that is significantly smaller and average after spending the so much to go over there. Those around Colorado are well worth the visit as one can fly directly to Denver, pick up a car and be in half dozen choices of nice resort in about 100miles distance.
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hello. the description if your skiing level seems to be very similar to how I would describe mine and I have had some superb holidays in North America over the past ten years. I tend to do a week in Europe with a large group of mixed abilities in January and then head to NA with a friend of similar abilities for the last week of Feb and the first week of March. There is no doubt that it is a more expensive option but definately worth it in my opinion. The last two years we have based ourselves in Park City, Utah and I wouls definately recommend The trip from the airport is really quick (and even though there are no direct flights from the UK there are from Paris with Delta so this makes a great alternative - handy only having to clear customs once in the States and prices with the connection from the Uk are not that bad) and being based in Park City there are three "local" resorts served by the brilliant bus service as well as a host of other resorts within an hours drive that are really easy to get to. This year we also skied in solitude, powder mountain and sniwbasin whereas last year as well as the three local resorts we skied alta, snowbasin and brighton. basing yourself in park city really does give you plenty of skiing options and means that there are also a wide variety of bars and restaurants for the couple of beers and a meal (we are the same in that we are there for the skiing not the nightlife).
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You know it makes sense.
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Yeah i agree with saikeea about colorado. Breckenridge, Vail, and Keystone are all included in the epic pass which give you something like two weeks of skiing over any time period of that season and are within a few hours driving range, not to mention that it gives you a huge variety of terrain to ski. There are other resorts included with the pass but can't remember if they're near those three. From my experience an awful lot of terrain was groomed although there wasn't exactly loads of snow, one of their driest winters apparently earlier this year  Definitely well worth a look into if that's what you fancy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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To add to the positive comments made by Jonny Jones, darbyrw and Andy06
It starts at the bottom of the lift.
More often than not deserted and no queuing.
If there are other people then the queuing is civilised with single, double and quad lines for a quad chair.
In the larger resorts the lifts are quick and comfortable and go to the tops of peaks.
The quality of the groomed runs is based on the quality of the grooming team, the quality of the snow being groomed, and the skiers & snowboarders skiing/riding it.
In my experience N America wins hands down.
Plenty of variety in
Summit County and surrounding area, Colorado - Loveland, A-Basin, Keystone, Breckenridge, Copper, Vail, Beaver Creek
Park City and surrounding area, Utah - Deer Valley, Park City, The Canyons, Brighton, Solitude, Alta, Snowbird, Sundance, Snowbasin, Powder Mountain
Take some lessons and you may find the transition from groomed skiing to powder skiing is easier than you think / what you may have experienced in Europe.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There's an astonishing amount of nonsense and blind prejudice spouted about North America vs Europe in this forum. Unless cash is particularly tight, I think that you'd be mad not to go at least once to find out the truth for yourself in my view. After trying it, many - maybe most - are hooked and make it an annual thing. Others are unimpressed and never go back. It's impossible to predict which group you fall into until you go there.
Skiing in North America is a significantly different experience from the Alps, and I've found that the similarities between American and Canadian resorts far outweigh their differences. European skiing is more diverse, but I've never found a resort in the Alps that gets close to a North American experience. Some might think that's a good thing. I don't.
As you say you don't mind moving around, I'd hire a car - most Americans do, BTW - and go to a place with a cluster of resorts. Summit County in Colorado would be one possibility. The resorts around Salt Lake City (although I've never skied Utah) would be another. You could also do a Canadian road trip in interior British Columbia, taking in places like Lake Louise, Panorama, Kicking Horse, etc.
Go with an open mind. Don't expect to find the Alps or you'll be disappointed. Instead, enjoy the freedom of the road; indulge yourself in the abundance of space, both in your accommodation and on the mountain; relax in an English speaking culture with people who are genuinely interested in talking to you - expect to be regularly asked about you political views on a chairlift, for example; enjoy the laid back nightlife that's focussed on relaxation rather than alcohol fuelled frenzies; take some lessons to learn how to benefit from the in-bounds off-piste terrain that really sets North America apart; learn to love Tex-Mex food - if you smother everything with chilli sauce, you'll find it's actually pretty good; and, if you have time, change planes and visit one of the great North American cities - New York, Chicago, Washington, for example - on your way home.
Ignore the naysayers and try it for yourself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| There's an astonishing amount of nonsense and blind prejudice spouted about North America vs Europe in this forum. |
This is true but before people splash the cash it's important to realise what the differences are. There is no doubt at the headline price because of long haul flights N America is more expensive, however the longer you stay, the more you eat out, the better bargains you seek out on season passes etc the lower the differential becomes. I still don't recommend N America to people who like cruising lots of blue groomers or "touring" village to village but I've met people who even though they fit that preference love the grooming, service standard etc etc. In my mind it's at its best if you have a flexible attitude to driving, exploring etc and want to improve your all round skiing in a controlled environment. A road trip taking in a number of resorts would be my recommendation and as they tend to cluster is more than possible in many areas of the continent. That said I've met plenty of people who've been thoroughly happy with their "standard" package weeks in Whistler, Banff or Breckenridge etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
That said I've met plenty of people who've been thoroughly happy with their "standard" package weeks in Whistler, Banff or Breckenridge etc.
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That would be me then. 2 weeks in Banff, which if you believe the nay sayers saw me commuting nearly as far on the bus as i did in the plane, but I'd go back at the drop of a hat, in fact my long term plan is to go back to N America in 3 years. A couple of Eurotrips in between to keep things changed up (and the bank balance recharged) seems to be quite a good balance.
I like Canada
I like Canadians
I like quiet quality groomers
I like quiet bowls, trees and slackcountry
I like the quality of food, service and attitude in bars and restaurants
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And I love Whistler and wouldn't swap the three weeks we've just had there for a three week, mostly piste holiday without jetlag in Europe. I love visiting and skiing with the friends we have over there and the new ones we make. Also, the amount of skiing that has been available for this time of year has been first class, although at times the lift queues were busy mainly during the week following the Easter weekend thanks to the big dumps of snow they kept getting (40cm one night). Even when queues were bigger during the powder days people still queued politely, not like the scrum it can become in countries like France. There are sniffle stations at the entrance to lifts where you can grab a tissue and mountain hosts at the base in the morning ready to help if you are new to Whistler. We've not managed to go for three years for certain reasons and while we really enjoyed our French holidays in the in between years it was like going home when we went back to Whistler. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Unless cash is particularly tight, I think that you'd be mad not to go at least once to find out the truth for yourself in my view. After trying it, many - maybe most - are hooked and make it an annual thing. Others are unimpressed and never go back. It's impossible to predict which group you fall into until you go there. |
The same can be said about skiing in Norway, in Japan, or in Turkey for that matter!
And you can also say the same about "trying" sky diving, at least once in your life time. Or XC skiing, or snow biking, or snowblades. The list goes on.
The purpose of this forum is, if you like certain something, you can ask others who's been there whether you'll find it in a different mountain. The answer is NO in this case.
If the OP wants to go sky diving, or eating spider, he can just go ahead and do it. He may or may not like it enough to go back. But he won't know unless he tries it, right? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
The purpose of this forum is, if you like certain something, you can ask others who's been there whether you'll find it in a different mountain. The answer is NO in this case.
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In your opinion. The O/P can find what he's looking for. Banff covers it. I was there less than a month ago. All the really nice cruisy blue/single black groomers in lake louise, nicely groomed stuff in sunshine. Variety, a sense of travel, three different mountains to ride (well two really) on one pass with a bus service, great hospitality, good value food, great scenery, wildlife, alternative activities, quiet slopes it's all there., Eh? 
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He can get more of that in Europe than he'll get in N. America, and (very likely) spend less.
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I've done most of my riding in the US and Canada, I learned to snowboard in California back in 99/2000. I've only recently started riding in Europe due to riding with different people and having less time in one block since the kids came along. Personally I prefer the North American style over the European style but that just a personal opinion. If I've got a week, then Europe, if I've got 10 days or more, i'd be looking across the pond...
Don't go if you like the Europen mega-resorts, you'll find the US mountains small by comparison to the L3V complex etc...
Don't go if you like dancing on a table in ski boots with a half naked Dutchman called Jacco till 4am, US mountain nightlike tends to be low key.
Don't go if you want a catered chalet, never seen one, but you'll have plenty of hotel or self catering options.
Don't go if you must have ski-in ski-out, most accomodation tends to be off-mountain, althouth there is some, it'll be even quieter than in town.
Do go if you like snow. In all my years of going to the States and Canada, i've only missed out once on fresh powder in 2005 or 'the year of no snow' and that was in March and I still had a half-metre base to work with.
Do go if you don't like crowds - I've gone riding for hours where the only people i've seen on the mountain are lifties and the people i'm with.
Do go if you like trees, most US and CA resorts have substantial treeline skiing compared to European resorts.
Do go if you're ok with self catering, forget the 5m.sq shoebox which sleeps 16, US and CA holiday properties are usually spacious and well equipped, and charge for the whole apartment not on maximum occupancy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd have to agree with Richard_Sideways, on his do's and dont's - you can find B+B's too which are usually good and plenty of hotels will include some sort of breakfast - how good depends on price though.
If you dont mind trying different resorts Utah or Colorado ( Summit county) as mentioned would be fun, but hire a car. Even though in Utah if you stay in the right place the public transport and/or hotel shuttles can be good and mean you dont need a vehicle.
People tend to head to North America for the inbounds stuff including trees, which are certainly fun and great when the visability isnt great
btw Jonny Jones,
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After Vail, Big Sky is the second biggest ski area in the USA measured by skiable acres;
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Mostly everyone thinks Vail is the US largest skiable acreage - unfortunately its not true. Vail only has 5200approx. acres, the largest is over 7000 acres and the lift ticket is considerably less. Vail does have the largest lift served terrain though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
There's an astonishing amount of nonsense and blind prejudice spouted about North America vs Europe in this forum. Unless cash is particularly tight, I think that you'd be mad not to go at least once to find out the truth for yourself in my view. After trying it, many - maybe most - are hooked and make it an annual thing. Others are unimpressed and never go back. It's impossible to predict which group you fall into until you go there.
Skiing in North America is a significantly different experience from the Alps, and I've found that the similarities between American and Canadian resorts far outweigh their differences. European skiing is more diverse, but I've never found a resort in the Alps that gets close to a North American experience. Some might think that's a good thing. I don't.
As you say you don't mind moving around, I'd hire a car - most Americans do, BTW - and go to a place with a cluster of resorts. Summit County in Colorado would be one possibility. The resorts around Salt Lake City (although I've never skied Utah) would be another. You could also do a Canadian road trip in interior British Columbia, taking in places like Lake Louise, Panorama, Kicking Horse, etc.
Go with an open mind. Don't expect to find the Alps or you'll be disappointed. Instead, enjoy the freedom of the road; indulge yourself in the abundance of space, both in your accommodation and on the mountain; relax in an English speaking culture with people who are genuinely interested in talking to you - expect to be regularly asked about you political views on a chairlift, for example; enjoy the laid back nightlife that's focussed on relaxation rather than alcohol fuelled frenzies; take some lessons to learn how to benefit from the in-bounds off-piste terrain that really sets North America apart; learn to love Tex-Mex food - if you smother everything with chilli sauce, you'll find it's actually pretty good; and, if you have time, change planes and visit one of the great North American cities - New York, Chicago, Washington, for example - on your way home.
Ignore the naysayers and try it for yourself. |
Could not agree more, we ski NA every year and would not change.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, of course you can find empty pistes in France. In this discussion it's the Europhiles that are disparaging about North America, not the Transatlanticists about Europe.
But those empty pistes too rarely coincide with the big ski interconnected areas that many intermediates love about Europe, with the peak periods that many of us are forced to travel in, or in the crucial runs in the centre of the ski area that it's hard to avoid. I'd be willing to bet that your photos are either taken during low season, in a minor resort or at the very fringes of a major resort, before 10:00am or, possibly, on a Saturday. If not, they're certainly not representative of my European experiences.
The photo I showed of Big Sky was a true representation of the busiest that it ever gets. Earlier that day we spent a couple of hours lapping the Sacajawea lift there, and we were quite literally the only people using it: we had a brand new high speed quad serving three pistes for our own personal pleasure. That was in mid February a couple of days after the busiest weekend of the year.
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I think the point is, you can find empty piste in Europe almost any time besides half term.
OP didn't say he must travel during peak period. So that's an assumption we can't make. There're a lot of good reason to ski North America. But cruising interconnected red "non-mogul" piste from one valley to the next is NOT one of them! Nor is a catered chalet where you can be fed without leaving the house.
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You know it makes sense.
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abc, Having done both I cannot say that I have ever experienced empty pistes in Europe in the same way I have experienced them in NA. In fact in excess of 30 years skiing I cannot ever recal having a lift and piste truly to myself in Europe, I can count on many occasions when I have had exactly that in the US.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| I think the point is, you can find empty piste in Europe almost any time besides half term. |
Not my experience in the big interconnected resorts. I haven't been to Europe at half term, as I've struggled to imagine skiing on pistes that are more crowded than those I've found at less busy times.
In Tignes one January, I gave up using the funicular because I was worried for the safety of my then young son on the hugely overcrowded red run back down after he was nearly bowled over several times by speeding idiots. The same year I found regular queues of 30 minutes or more leaving the valley that were almost impossible to avoid.
In Zermatt one Easter, I was trapped several times by enormous queues of 45 minutes or more at key interconnecting lifts that, again, could not be easily avoided. The late afternoon run back to the town resembled rush hour at Bank tube station more than a blissful piste.
In Courchevel one January I was taken out by a speeding snowboarder (the only time I've ever been knocked over by another skier/boarder) whilst carving perfectly regular S bends under the watchful eye of an instructor on a hideously overcrowded trail.
In St Anton one December I once waited nearly 5 minutes for a gap in the traffic to allow me to rejoin the crocodile of skiers heading down the Happy Valley.
All of those resorts had quiet trails, too. But I have never taken a European trip where the pistes have been consistently quiet across the whole mountain, and where it hasn't been necessary to plan carefully if you want to avoid crowds. North American quietness is different from European quietness in the way that a Wyoming interstate is different from the M25.
I'm not saying that the Espace Killey, Zermatt, the Three Valleys or the Arlberg are without their attractions. But reliably quiet trails are not among their strengths any more than fine on-mountain dining is an attribute of Panorama.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The photos were taken during holiday periods, christmas and February but are not in one of the huge ski circuses beloved of the Brit package tourist.
How big is vail? I got the impression that most US ski areas were pretty small without a lot of vertical. They look a lot like some of the mid size French ski areas. Ah Vail has 1000m of vertical, which is, well a Sarkozy size ski resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| leedsunited wrote: |
| abc, Having done both I cannot say that I have ever experienced empty pistes in Europe in the same way I have experienced them in NA. In fact in excess of 30 years skiing I cannot ever recal having a lift and piste truly to myself in Europe, I can count on many occasions when I have had exactly that in the US. |
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| I think the point is, you can find empty piste in Europe almost any time besides half term. |
Not my experience in the big interconnected resorts. I haven't been to Europe at half term, as I've struggled to imagine skiing on pistes that are more crowded than those I've found at less busy times.
In Tignes one January, I gave up using the funicular because I was worried for the safety of my then young son on the hugely overcrowded red run back down after he was nearly bowled over several times by speeding idiots. The same year I found regular queues of 30 minutes or more leaving the valley that were almost impossible to avoid. |
This is really insteresting!
Both of you ski mostly in Europe and ski a few times in the US. Your impression being Europe is always crowded. While I ski mostly in the US and only skied in Europe a handful of times. My impression of Europe is just as quiet as the US! (btw, most of my skiing in Europe are in big interconnected domains -- 3V, Dolomites, St. Anton)
All those talk of pushing and shoving that's all over this board, well, I haven't experienced it (except once about 20 years ago)! I had, on the other hand, WAITED (no pushing though) in queues for 3/4 hr at the tram of Jackson Hole! The one and only time I got "bowled over" by a snowboarder was in Breckenridge!!!
Somehow, you two managed to ski US when it's quiet and I managed to ski Europe when it's quiet! I suspect it's simply because we all purposely avoided any period of time that's busy when we planned our ski across the pond, whilst we're not equally choosy when skiing in our own normal "domain".
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 17-04-12 0:23; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's not rocket science. The major Euro resorts are centred around large populations and huge uplift capacity. I can't speak for the US, but the Canadian resorts (especially away from Whistler/Banff) are deserted by comparison - particularly in the last few years when the exchange rate has kept many Americans out of Canada. I've skied maybe 50 weeks in Canada and probably 20 weeks in Europe and so I think I've got a reasonable feel for the differences. They are both good, but Canada (West) gets my vote over the major European resorts for its combination of great snow, minimal crowds, accessible off-piste, spacious accommodation, gladed skiing, etc. Ski-in-out is also great in some resorts, contrary to what some believe.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
The photos were taken during holiday periods, christmas and February but are not in one of the huge ski circuses beloved of the Brit package tourist.
How big is vail? I got the impression that most US ski areas were pretty small without a lot of vertical. They look a lot like some of the mid size French ski areas. Ah Vail has 1000m of vertical, which is, well a Sarkozy size ski resort. |
Think girth rather than length.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| stuarth wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
The photos were taken during holiday periods, christmas and February but are not in one of the huge ski circuses beloved of the Brit package tourist.
How big is vail? I got the impression that most US ski areas were pretty small without a lot of vertical. They look a lot like some of the mid size French ski areas. Ah Vail has 1000m of vertical, which is, well a Sarkozy size ski resort. |
Think girth rather than length. |
Nice analogy!
For piste cruisers, length is a lot more important than girth.
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| abc wrote: |
| All those talk of pushing and shoving that's all over this board, well, I haven't experienced it (except once about 20 years ago)! |
I agree that pushing and shoving is less common than talk about the phenomenon, but I've definitely experienced it. Every time it's happened to me, a Brit has been to blame.
| abc wrote: |
| I had, on the other hand, WAITED (no pushing though) in queues for 3/4 hr at the tram of Jackson Hole! The one and only time I got "bowled over" by a snowboarder was in Breckenridge!!! |
According to my resort guides and my own experience, Breck and Jackson are about as busy as the USA gets. But I've skied in both during holiday seasons, and the crowds in peak time are dramatically lower than at the major European resorts that I mentioned.
To be fair to the European resorts, lift queues are much less common than they were as bottlenecks have been replaced with ultra-high capacity lifts - gondolas with large cabins and 6 or even eight seater high speed chairlifts. But those skiers have to go somewhere, and the pistes become unbearable when the lifts are full.
You don't need a maths degree to understand that, without significant infrastructure investment, most North American resorts could never become as crowded as, say, the Three Valleys. There are four reasons for this: ultra high capacity lifts are uncommon over there; it's much less common to see multiple lifts arriving at one point on the mountain; resort design encourages the more advanced - and, by implication, faster - skiers to head away from the pistes and into the glades, steeps and powder; and the wide open bowls that feature in almost every resort there swallow up truly vast numbers of skiers without causing any sense of crowding.
Continuing your example of Jackson, when the tram disgorges its contents, the crowds disperse into the wide open spaces of Rendezvous bowl in seconds with no feeling of claustrophobia. When a similarly sized cable car unloads in Zermatt, all the skiers join the same piste and the run resembles a dodgem fairground ride. And Zermatt has 4-5 cable cars of a similar size, plus multiple high speed gondolas and a railway - each of which pours hundreds of skiers onto narrow, crowded pistes.
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| abc wrote: |
All those talk of pushing and shoving that's all over this board, well, I haven't experienced it (except once about 20 years ago)! |
Clearly you haven't been somewhere like Les 2 Alpes when high wind has hut down most upper mountain lifts and there is a massive resorts worth of people trying to crowd onto one of the under capacity lower mountain chairs. Europe is at it's worst precisely because of the size of ski areas which mean when funnelling people back to a common point at the end of the day pistes can become severely congested - e.g. the Pierre a Ric in Grands Montets, Happy Valley in St Anton. the long flat home run in Engelberg etc etc.
My impression, based on reasonably extensive observation, is that European pistes are, on average busier than N American ones. There can be many reasons for this including cultural ones such as skiing in Europe being a predominantly 6 day holiday, a weeked acivity in N America, lack of controlled off piste in Europe etc etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My skiing has been done mainly in Europe. But I had trips to Vail and Breckenridge as an early intermediate and to Snowbird as an trainee powder hound.
For a piste skiing intermediate; I think Europe has more to offer.
For a less experienced off pister; I think North America is better (unless you have the cash to splash on a guide every day)
And there are queues anywhere you go if you're there at the "wrong" time.
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kosciosco, How you doin' fella ? If you wanna go to North America, go to North America. Give it a try. I did. I went to Breckenridge in a catered Chalet and had a great holiday. I haven't been back to North America, but I don't really know why (probably because I haven't thought about it until now).
My 2p, which seems to have been missed so far (except by saikee), is that it's a long way. Period. It's an awful lot of travelling for a week, so you tend to go for longer. I went for 10 days, which was perfect, but I was knackered after 10 days skiing - plus 10 days blows a big hole in your holiday allowance. On balance, for me, I would prefer 2 or even 3 weeks in Europe for the same price as 1 trip over the pond. But, as I said, if you wanna experience it, go for it - you'll have a great time.
PM me if you want any further steer.
Cheers
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