Piste Bashing 3Vs

A snowHead

Recently got back from Les Menuires, and have to say that I was unimpressed by the standard of piste preparation.

I know it's warm, and snow doesn't like warm. I know slush freezes and turns into ice. But is that why the pistes were so badly prepared?

For instance - a piste 3-bashers-width wide would have 3 bashed strips with steps, or unbashed areas between.

Pistes only half-bashed. Not the top half, or bottom half, but one side bashed and not the other.

I haven't skied much in the 3V and don't remember this problem before; and have never encountered such poor piste preparation in the PdS (except once, on Mont Chery).

So what's going on - are the pisteurs working so hard on the lower slopes they havent got time to do the rest of the mountain? Strapped for cash so only running 50% of bashers? Or is this par for the course(evel)?

A snowHead

Didn't have that happen in 3Vs in January (in fact, pistes seemed pretty immaculate).

Have had that elsewhere (La Plagne for example) in poorer snow conditions/warmer weather. So maybe to do with that I guess?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Unprepared pistes will make you a better, more versatile skier. Isn't that preferable for you?

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kevin mcclean, No. The point of having pisted routes is that they are prepared and they are marketed at such. If the OP had wanted unbashed unprepped runs then firstly he wouldn't be raising it as an issue or he'd go off piste.

We encountered similar conditions in Soll in March. The lower runs were frankly terrible and they could easily have been tended better and with more care despite the unseasonably high temperatures for which of course we make allowances.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Oh dear, poor you!

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kevin mcclean, if you can't avoid being patronising and flexing your pathetic muscles hidden away behing a computer server then try not to post at all. Moron!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Wow, that was tense! It could be me, but it does sound like you're in dire need of a BJ tonight. Make sure you get one. Now, when that's done, relax and smile........

After all it is free

kevin mcclean, pathetic. grow up

You're not really in control of this exchange at all, are you? Now go away and exercise your rage elsewhere.

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doctor_eeyore, Funny you should post that, I was thinking the same thing last week! Pistes in the Courchevel area were better prepared Puzzled

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I've experienced similar 2 weeks ago - the 'shelves' between bashed strips going down a piste. I think the bashers just find it a bit harder to deal with this kind of snow than with the more predictably 'firm but pliable' winter snow.

Also, attention kevin mcclean. You're being a fanny.

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Well done guys

Are kevin mcclean and jirac18 pseudonyms for Boris and Ken. Can't the two of you go in a lift and sort it out?

PS on a serious note, the runs become difficult to groom when the slushy stuff goes all bumpy and then freezes. They also do say the % of the runs they aim to groom.

You know it makes sense.

I found similar conditions in Meribel just over a week ago, Courchevel was better last week.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Piste bashing is expensive. "Freeride" is cool

That's why there are no black pistes any more just these 'piste-natures' everywhere on which you never see a soul even on the rare occasions they're open.

'Nature' in French of course translates to 'couldn't be bothered to bash it' in English, comme tu sais bien

A snowHead

doctor_eeyore, What were the temperatures, if it is not freezing you will find that they will be adverse from touching the snow as it melts if moved or groomed above certain temps.

A snowHead

So the consensus is the worse the snow, the worse the prep - because if they tried to make it better they'd make it worse?

leedsunited, freeze-thaw with days up to +10.

But the poor pistes were all over the mountain, not just lower down.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

doctor_eeyore, essentially yes, as temperatures warm up (and stay warm) it becomes much harder to groom a piste, it's not so bad when it's freezing each night, but as soon as it stops doing that theres very little the piste machines can do to make a better piste, all they can do is smooth out the worst lumps and bumps , plus the more they work it the more it melts, classically the bashers will go up down up down across the slope doing a basher width each time and then shift over a half width and smooth out the lines between the runs, but in wet heavy snow this just results in the bashers compacting these runs a bit more and you tend to get rougher pistes, it's just something you have to be aware of in warm weather and adjust your style accordingly, either straight lining down the single width of a basher or doing wider traverses so that your skis/board crosses the joints at a safe angle

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Or use the little shelves between basher efforts to get a bit of air on a traverse. Wheee!

Ahem.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The Where to Ski guide contains a section on piste preparation and I seem to recall that it is a bit hit and miss in Meribel but better over in Courcheval.

I can strongly recommend the Sella Ronda where piste maintenance is universally excellent. They use good machines there too – mainly Prinroth Leitwolfs which apparently have the best tillers going. snowHead

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Peter S,I went to the Dolomites, Kronplatz area, in March. It was very warm but the piste preparation was, as you said, excellent.

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I like blue runs that are bashed and deserted where you can carve the skis harder and harder till ther'e about to lose grip and your elbow is scraping the snow.
Red runs are sometimes good to carve but sometimes a little too steep and fast to carve
Black runs that are bashed are boring with a capital B, too steep to carve unless you're Franz Klammer (remember him?) and too smooth to do anything else, no run that is bashed has the right to be called a black run

After all it is free

In La Plagne last week much more piste basher time was spent on the lower slopes than normal, particularly moving snow down to keep the lower sections open. Certainly in Montalbert that normally has two machines working had 3 and a lot of their time was spent perfecting the ESF nursery area.
However, unlike last year they were not moving snow around in trucks!
I'm not 100% sure, maybe Lizard or someone can confirm, that a lot of the resort staff are on seasonal contracts that end at Easter and if extended they become subject to full time staff benefits. Therefore, it ends up with more piste prep to do and less staff to do it. But it's nearing the end of the season so that's OK.

Of course if you are having trouble skiing anything that is not perfect corduroy Lessons from a Qualified Instructor are the answer!

tangowaggon, you haven't done Face de Bellevarde so. Bashed or not bashed, this is hell of run. I think not enough decent really steep groomed blacks where you can try to carve down

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Just a little question for the British. Where does the term "Piste Basher" come from? It is not used by the other english speaking skiing countries such as Canada, USA, NZ etc.

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Sarge McSarge, What do you call it then?

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Just back from 3V and yes there were some poorly prepared runs. Mr mogulski said he thought the pisters had been planting potatoes as there were so many furrows in the runs. It was better in Couchevel. We also visited Flaine where the Diamont Noir was the worst ever - its not a pisted run but was solid ice large moguls a week ago. Yet in Verbier we had a fantastic time on the bumps down to Tortin with fresh snow - completely different to Flaine.

Sarge McSarge,

I think it might be derived from the agricultural term for a cultivator, or "knobble basher"

You know it makes sense.

Filthyphil30k, Everyone else calls them "snow groomer" or just "groomer" This is the term used buy the manufacturers world wide as well as others in the snow industry. musher, Thanks.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

An Aussie I knew called them pisten bullies (after the make). I suppose we call them piste bashers cos thats what they do

A snowHead

I was in L2A last week and on the whole the bashing was good. Some low areas were poor in the mornings as they were frozen bashed slush, not a lot they can do about that. Leaving pistes half bashed, half not is fairly common isnt it, allows choice? However skiing the frozen unbashed side early is not adviseable.

A snowHead

I noticed that last year too in VT that they were only bashing half the piste. It was last week of season and I assumed it was because the the temps are warmer and dont want to make the piste worse. There were a few puddles of water in the dips as well. Puzzled

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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I think they are called snowcats in USA Puzzled

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Its the Hoover v Vacuum cleaner thing.

There are lots of diffrent makes. In Europe the two big ones are Kassbohrer which make 'Pisten Bullys' and Prinroth which make the Leitwolf. In Canada there is Bombardier and there are other minority manufacturers too.

Sno-cat is an American make.

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The term groomer as used to describe a groomed surface is a relatively new term that appears to have come form the US. Pisten Bully is the brand name for Kässbohrer groomers and on their web site they call their machines snow groomers. As Peter S, says there are lots of different brands around the world and some folks do use the brand name to denote the whole class.

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Sarge McSarge, casting my memory way back to a season at Coronet Peak in the late 80s (liftie), we called them Cats and referred specifically to the grooming attachment as the groomer.

After all it is free

We were very impressed with the pistes in VT and the Les Menuires and Mottaret areas last week. OK, they got a bit slushy near to the lower two locations, but for the time of year I thought they were doing very well. The upper slopes were often good to excellent esp. after the snow falls. One thing I consistently think is brilliant in the 3V areas and seems superior to both what we have found in Austria and Les Arcs is the quality of signage and piste edge marking in the 3V's this extended beyond VT into the areas noted above (my first excursions out of VT area). This good signage excelled in making the area skiable in the very poor vis we experienced. Also though pistes deliberately left unpisted were clearly marked and those reds which were clearly part of this plan were indeed switched during the week to provide some variety, i.e. Portette and Rhodos. I must confess I was more impressed than unimpressed. doctor_eeyore, Did you go higher or were you slogging the lower pistes? Your posting suggests that you did both. We were there last week (different to your week), and things def. seemed OK to me, maybe you were just unlucky?

Megamum, Didn't you have fresh snowfall for your week though?

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