 Poster: A snowHead
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I saw a test centre for touring stuff and went over for a nosey (cos i am nosey) and i saw some skis with what I thought were the Dynafit touring bindings but the guy who was fitting them up said they weren't, they were Plum bindings? Anyone know what these are?
He also had a pair of Look touring bindings that looked exactly the same (and I thought the Look name was finished or dead or something) have they all just ripped of Dynafit as they look really similar to my (very) untrained eye?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dynafit's patent on tech bindings has expired so a number of other manufacturers are now making them. Plum seems to be the connisseur's choice. Look name is still there as part of Rossi/Dynastar.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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lots of info about breakages of Plums on TGR too
i'd be inclined to look at the Dynafit Radical range if I was in the market
not heard of a new Dynastar/Look touring binding (if that's what you mean); they used to a do a rebadged Naxo which I would avoid
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno, i dont look at TGR but are the plumb issues serious ? have to say they look great in terms of design and manufacture...
I am thinking of trying out tech bindings and was gonna go with the plumbs, interesting you think the radicals would be better...
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skimottaret, from a brief scan, there seem to be problems with the toepieces
that said:
- dynafit aren't totally immune to this
- we don't know how much they were abused by rad TGR internet skiers
- we don't know if these issues will be resolved in next year's plums
i'm on TLT Speeds which you might thing would be flimsy as hell but not problems yet
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Arno, i am thinking i need to hire a dynafit tech setup and just have a play to see how i get on... on the agenda for next year me thinks 
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The Look bindings are re-badged Plums
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, no hesitation, just splash the cash..
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skimottaret, Zag in argentiere have test skis with plum bindings at 25 € a day incl skins.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm in the same position. It's a toss up between the Radical FT/ST (whichever one doesn't have that daft carbon 'stiffener' plate on it) and next year's Plum Guide with a brake. The Plums look to be better machined and have an all metal toe piece from what I gathered from playing with a pair. bolts are spaced slightly wider on the Radical though so maybe better for wider skis?
helinick got a dose of abuse from the gnarliest of the gnarly in LG for having Dynafits and not Plums. Charliebigpotatoes is a fan too 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| skimottaret, no hesitation, just splash the cash.. |
on what 
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Depends, I'm not convinced any tech binding is better than the other unless you are sticking them on really wide skis in which case the width of the screws in the mount versus the width of the ski might make a difference. Unless you routinely drop 10ft onto hardpack I'd not worry about it too much. In that case though I'd avoid a tech binding.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| It's a toss up between the Radical FT/ST (whichever one doesn't have that daft carbon 'stiffener' plate on it) and next year's Plum Guide with a brake. |
http://unofficialnetworks.com/ultimate-dynafit-gear-review-radical-series-alpenglow-sports-50011/
As it goes, the Radical that doesn't have the optional stiffener plate in its toe piece uses 4 fixing points instead of the 5 on the FT12 but aside from that (weakness?) it's not radically different. As for Plums or other copies of Dynafits, why would you buy them if they aren't obviously better / more reliable / more serviceable / tougher / more functional / cheaper?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, either dynafit or plum ! 
both have occasional breakages, mainly due to skiers pushing them beyond what they were designed for...
I have this years Radical FT on some Mantras & quite happy with the set-up, have other set-ups with Vertical FT & ST - no probs there either, though be wary with the old FT on wider skis as the toe has a narrow footprint - you can buy a 'Power Plate' for about £10 which gives extra support to the wings on the toe piece to reduce the stresses.
As far as I am aware Plum still are not making brakes for their bindings so this may be a factor in choosing for you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I got plum guides this year - they are top notch. Didn't want brakes so that didn't bother me. Some of the tgr stories worried me but the numbers were pretty small. I got the support pads for the heel binding (sits in front of pins and provides a stop against the heel sole of your boot to take pressure off the pins during impacts etc). I felt these were needed as I'm a big fella. Simply fondling plums side by side with dyna, they are as mentioned totally bomber. Real purdy too
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dynastar now own part of Plum Bindings (the Chamonix valley connection).
Plum bindings look good - though since the dynafit patents expired several other companies are also trying to get into tech bindings (la sportiva, trab, G3 etc).
*All* touring bindings are liable to break at some point if abused. However I reckon dynafits are generally more reliable than Fritschi / Markers (less parts to break). The biggest problem with tech bindings seems to be ripping the toe piece clean out of wider skis (especially if you take a twisting knee fall in touring mode). For 100mm+ wide skis they perhaps need to make the toe screw plates wider to reduce the torque ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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offpisteskiing, i have been hemming and hawing over what to do re a touring setup... this is a bit off topic and bare with the long post but i am looking for advice from all the touring guys... a bit of background...
My first experience with demanding (to me at least !) tours (700 - 1000 up and 6-12k flat) was draining and not fun at all. My fitness could always be better but i did stay on the tails of a strong group of national team level skiers during a four day course which just about killed me. I would like to enjoy touring not be destroyed by it and need to do a couple of weeks next year so am thinking equipment as well as fitness needs to improve. The young guns and guide were all on dynafit type setups which got me thinking while i was dying on the way up that the weight savings is probably worth trying tech bindings and a lighter ski setup so I can enjoy rather than endure touring.
I was just gonna stick with my 191 mantras / dukes/ dynafit titan boot setup and man up a bit on the UP but the deciding factor in thinking about a change was that the downhill skiing was awful with them, on firm snow on and off piste the skis had poor lateral stiffness, chattered and felt “wobbly” I put this down to the touring boots not being as stiff as my race boots I had used previously with the dukes. But thought that the Duke was meant to give a strong connection and alpine performance. Thinking about it further the same skis with alpine boots were fine on piste and enjoyable to ski. I think the problem is with rubber soled touring boots giving a spongy connection to the skis. Could be I don’t have the toe height adjusted correctly but it didn’t feel sloppy.
?? does others feel a difference between using dukes with rando boots and alpine boots, or am I imagining things…
??How critical is the toe height adjustment on Dukes?
?? Looking at tech bindings it looks as though the load is transmitted through the pins, do they take ALL the load through the pin connection or does the boot sole take some of the load…
?? how important are brakes for a pure off piste setup, I would think a leash would be fine and in some ways preferable to avoid losing a ski. (I can see the higher risk with avi burial)
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Dynafit is to ski touring what wide skis are too powder.
It is a real game changer (because your eliminating lifted weight from every stride).
Light(er) weight touring boots will never ski as well as performance downhill race boots.
But if you have decent technique and remain centered on the ski then its not a problem.
Generally when touring in remote places most peeps don't charge so hard on the way down and take a little off the throttle.
As ever touring gear is a compromise. There is no perfect solution that does it all.
But when 80-90% of the time is spent going uphill it makes sense to go lighter.
Real beauty of dynafit (IMHO) it that it makes touring on stiffer 90-100mm skis enjoyable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, i'm a bit surprised you had so many issues on the down with that setup - it's pretty solid in my view. maybe my expectations have been altered by years of skiing on wide skis and touring boots but i very rarely bother with alpine boots now. i find my touring boots (which are probably a bit less beefy than Titans) much more comfortable than my alpine boots and if i need to get an edge i can without too much trouble
the toe height adjustment on Dukes is pretty important - if you are crushing the boot toe in there, you will suffer with unpredictable release; if there is too much room, you won't get the responsiveness you are looking for
on tech bindings, most of the load is transmitted through the pins. none through the sole - there isn't any contact between the sole and the binding. the heel may transfer a little but not much
i have been brakeless for a couple of years. i'm still undecided on this. leashes are a bit of a faff and the clip on one of my leashes broke on my last trip which was annoying. however, i have found dynafit brakes not to be v effective (it was a bit unpredictable as to whether they would deploy on the one set of dynafits i had with brakes) and i found that the heel used to rotate when i didn't want it to in walk mode, which i attributed to the brakes. that said, the Radical is quite a substantial redesign so these may not apply, and anyway, my sample size was one set of bindings so I may just have been unlucky
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Arno, i really noticed it on hardpack with LOTs of judder on piste as well as firm off piste snow , just didnt feel good at all underfoot. for reference i am 6'4" and 99kg and on the agressive to equipment end of the spectrum but have a decent touch now and rarely overpressure the ski.
am thinking it was the boot sole slop on the dukes, they did ski just fine with race boots
good to here that the load is not through the soles on tech bindings, I would like to try techs out to see if i can notice a difference but is a rather expensive test I do have a pair of new skis coming along so need some bindings, I am leaning to go with plumbs given my size and weight as they just seem beefier and live with the leashes. I dont huck cliffs and will be as light as i can when touring.
the wider mounting screw holes on the radicals appeal and may stiffen up the setup, wonder what the mounting hole width is on the plumbs...
Haggis_Trap, i have been on 150 flex race room alpine boots for a while now and while i expected a difference with flexing fore aft I was surprised at how much difference in lateral stiffness there was. my touch on skis is pretty good but i overedged/pressured the skis way too easy for my liking which got me thinking about the boot sole binding interface being the culprit..
i am coming around to thinking that a tech setup for day touring is the way to go and keeping my mantra dukes with alpine boots for a resort side country type set up. Was gonna sell the mantras but have invested in skins etc so will probably keep in at my apartment for powder days.
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Arno, IMO, although the brakes on Dynafits are shorter and less effectve than on Alpine bindings , they are useful enough to stop a ski doing a snowboard type runaway from a standing start. I remember the moment (and so will Haggis_Trap) that a brakeless Dynafitted ski decided to go walkies quite a long way the wrong way down a hill without its owner's permission when we'd all stopped for a breather & photos on a tour a couple of years ago. A leash wouldn't have helped on that occasion.
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moffatross, no doubt you need to keep an eye on your kit if you don't have brakes on your skis
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, What's the new ski ?
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AndAnotherThing.., cant remember the name but a new line of Head ski coming out (we have to pre order) looks on paper to be similar to the old peak series 185 90 underfoot and about 18 metre rad and a bit of tip rocker which was the spec i was after decided against the rock and rolls due to the big tail upturn..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, So with the Mantra's - you think the issue was with the binding / boot combo rather than the ski ? I fancied a pair on the basis that they appear to be oversized karma's which I really enjoy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AndAnotherThing.., in my view yes as i mentioned with alpine boots on they feel like fat GS skis and hold a good edge, they are heavy and stiff for a touring based ski but as an all rounder if you like fatter ski with a big sidecut they would suit nicely i would think, i had karmas and liked em except for the twin tips.
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Arno, if i have time I might put my alpine soles on my titans and ski em on the Duke mantras to test if how different in feel to the AT soles... something to do during the summer but mantras in the fridge feels wrong
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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heres a pic of the heel pads for the Plum Guides before mounty mounty (only adding 40g each). There's reports on tgr from ISPO not long gone that next season will see some wider toe and heel plates coming out for wider skis (and some colour action for the badged Look versions). I've mine QK'd for 89 and 108 wide skis, feel fine on the 108's (though only a couple of days on them so far as the 89 is the main culprit for these babies). Yet to sort out harscheisen for em, dyna's cramps supposed to fit perfectly
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can't see why anyone would go any route other than tech bindings if daily ascent is any more than, say, 400m. I've done more than that on Dukes and it was pretty miserable! I'm on the 10/11 Dynafit ST.
Sure there's some degree of compromise, but unless you're really pushing the boundaries with big cliff drops etc. the tech bindings will do the job. I'm just back from a short trip to Austria (TR to follow) and I used tech bindings for all aspects of the trip (two day tours, 1.5 days of lift-served), bar a morning failing to telemark; they held up absolutely fine on my fat skis (112mm) barring one unclip on a (uphill) kickturn but that was my fault ... hadn't locked the toepiece properly!
I can see what skimottaret means when describing lots of vibration on hardpack. For me, I'm certain this is me over-pressurising and not allowing the ski to do what it's designed for, but that's unlikely to be the case for him!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i dont jump off much, but am a big guy (pushing a lean mean 18stones), and find the plum guides plenty of bidning for me (albeit early days). They go up to a "DIN comparable" setting of 12, which should be plenty for most (I've mine at a starter for 10 due to the pies, and they feel fine - no pre-release so far).
Maybe they'll eventually shake you loose if hammering frozen/hardpack corduroy all the time, but having tech-ers generally means leaving that terrain behind (apart from access).
I'll be on my tele's (NTN) for the lifts and a mix of plums and tele for everything else (not one on each foot like )
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barry, not had a single pre-release on piste skiing tech bindings even when it's super hard. I'm only 12 stone and have my Dynafits dialed up to 12 most of the time. No problems releasing when I wanted them too. The only time I come out is dropping a distance onto hard(ish) snow so I tend to avoid that when the consequences are not fun. The reason seems to me to be either the binding not being elastic enough to cope with the impact force or the ski compressing till the boot hits the rear and that popping you out. My skis are pretty stiff so I'm aiming for the former rather than the latter. No issues at all in soft snow though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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meh, ^ yup good point, both pairs of skis I drilled for the plums are girder stiff so reckon that also helps with retention during general use. That and the fact that there are tons of stronger, better and huckier skiers than me on these babies, I aint too worried about popping out when you least want to (and dont intend locking out toes except for the up)
all good - OP you know it makes sense
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little update... had a few days on mantra/duke/titans set up and found a few things out. After my poor experience with this setup earlier in the season I did a little digging on binding set up and got some great advice from SpyderJon. Turns out I didnt have the toe height adjusted correctly and consequently the forward pressure was out. I think this caused a lot of the slop i had in the setup previously. Correctly set up they skied much better but I still had some wobble laterally which I think is mainly down to the touring boots... Lesson learned for me when doing binding setup with rando boots 
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skimottaret,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Are you going to stick with that set-up or move on ?
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AndAnotherThing.., un decided... i have some skis on order and I will probably go for a tech binding for them and Titan boots for touring. will probably leave the mantras as is in my apt and use with alpine boots for snowy days...
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FAQ
. As with all binding mounts it's important to avoid any top sheet eruption which transfers load to the screws instead of the skis.
(summer pre-order offer coming soon 