 Poster: A snowHead
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Putting this up here so it is searchable or maybe a stickie so others can consider the train as an option. This is not the gospel, just our thoughts.
We are lucky that over the last number of years to have had 2 skiing holidays per year. Normally in January we go with the kids and in March on our own. We bought a place a few years back in Arc 2000 so over the last few years we have driven out and in March we have flown to Geneva and hired a car.This year however due to the rising cost of ‘cheap’ flights, the cost of hire cars out of Geneva and a general loathing of flying and all the stress airports bring we decide to have a look at taking the train to Bourg Saint Maurice.
Immediately once we made this decision we looked at direct trains with Eurostar. However for reasons of timing and where we live direct did not work out for us. We then decided to look at the cost and practicalities of going via Paris and overnight.
I will go through pros and cons but from the outset I will say we loved the train journey, by travelling overnight we gained 2 extra days on the slopes, avoided Geneva airport and it was cheaper than flying (more later). Firstly we had to set about finding prices and train times. Eurostar was easy but a lot of goggling for French trains takes you to this site but I found it useless. AVOID> AVOID> AVOID.
http://www.raileurope.co.uk/
I eventually found a link to French trains direct. There are lots of options to Bourg either day or night and you can do searches over many days to show the cheapest options, great site and once we had booked we could print our tickets off on line.
http://www.tgv-europe.com/en
and you obviously need to match up your Eurostar journey here.
http://www.eurostar.com
Ok, here was our journey. We booked the 4.55pm out of Ashford on Saturday 2th March, due in Paris Gare Du Nord 7.45pm(includes the hour forward) and our overnight left Gare D’Austerlitz @ 11.15pm. We could have got a later train out of Ashford but as we had never done this route we wanted to give ourselves loads of time. Please see this note here about parking at Ashford.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=88277#2019592
Ok, getting from one station to another in Paris can be done by Metro but with heavy bags that was not an option. The taxi fare was 15 euro, might vary slightly depending on the number of passengers and bags you have but worth the 15 euro. The good news as well is that on the way out we did the transfer peak time Saturday and Paris was heaving but a lot of the journey there were bus lanes so even though other traffic was not moving it only took about 20 mins max by taxi.
Gare D’Austerlitz – Some pointers
Ok, looking at the picture above, the taxi dropped us at the back of the station by the river where the black arrow points. It turned out the main entrance to the station is the big grey area where the red arrow points and if you want to leave your bags this is where this is to. Left luggage was 9.50 euro for one locker and managed to get 2 big bags in a locker however where the green arrow points there are 2 restaurants, simple steak stuff, get the taxi to drop you here and it’s only a short walk back to the station. If(when) doing it again we won’t bother with the lockers. The restaurant we went in was full of people with luggage so they didn’t mind. Train left at 11.15, boarding commenced at about 10.30pm. The train is going to Bourg, it stops in Chambery, Albertville, Moutiers, Aime La Plagne and Landry as well. It is an enormous train and ½ of it goes to St Gervais, this part is uncoupled in Chambery (I think it was, I was asleep!)
Ok here is a picture of the couchette.
As you can see it is cosy!. Luggage can be an issue, space is very limited. Room under the bottom bed and by cramming in but best bit of advice is to get to your cabin asap and cram your bags in then leave the next to sort theirs. Depending on number of you travelling book (you get the option on the website when booking train to nominate whether you want bottom, middle or top) the top 2 bunks as a priority, There is a hidden amount of space behind your head there, great for hand luggage and small back packs. Also you are out of the way there.
Word of warning about the couchette. You will be sharing unless there are 6 of you. Once the lights go out and the train is moving you cannot see past your nose in the cabin so getting up and down for a p*ss can be very disruptive and not easy. Don’t drink 10 pints before setting off!!!
1st class on the couchette has 4 to a cabin. Not worth it in my opinion.
We left prompt at 11.15pm and I dozed off soon after until we arrived in Albertville around 6.30am. Result. The train stops in Chambery for 30 mins, never heard a thing, I think the St Gervais part is uncoupled there and sent on its merry way as the train was a lot shorter in Bourg. The train also stopped in Moutiers, Aime La Plagne, Landry and Bourg.The direct Eurostar stops in Moutiers and Aime La Plagne on the way out but on the way back it only stops in Moutier.
When you get off in Bourg this can be fun if heading to the funicular. There is no easy way from the station to the Funicular. See Picture below
You will arrive in middle of platform at blue arrow. The funicular is the red arrow, the most logical thing to do is walk to the end of the platform away from the station terminal(the station terminal is the little bus symbol at the top of the picture) to the overhead bridge(green arrow). BE WARNED, BIG STEPS UP AND DOWN HERE. NOT FUN. We heard that at the height of season on Saturdays, tourist office staff are there to hep but it is a haul up the steps. The other route is to walk towards the terminal BUT HEAD AT THE END OF THE PLATFORM TO THE RIGHT AND DOWN THE RAMP WHERE THE BLACK ARROW IS MARKED. The walk down the road with the black arrow. All good fun but it ain’t joined up transport!!
Another tip for the funicular. When you get on at Bourg and you have luggage go to the front of the train. The reason..The train arrives into a sloped platform at Arc1600. If you are at the back of the train you will have to cart your bags up some steps on the platform to the flat piece at the top. The platform in Bourg is flat. Conversely when getting on in 1600 don't bother going to the front of the train.
On the way back we were told a bus runs from the funicular the station but we saw nowt and just walked the road.
Train back was on Friday night at 9.18pm. We got down to Bourg about 7.45pm. Everything in the station was shut (including toilets). There was a bar across the road and I did see some people arrive back with a pizza but we had eaten at the apartment earlier so not hungry. Train boarded about 8.45pm. Again we got to the head of the queue and got in early and got rid of our bags. Our couchette was full by the time we left Bourg which is actually good as if you want to dose of you know no one is going to join your cabin on the train. The train stopped at Landry, Aime and by the time we hit Moutiers (10.30pm) I was knackered and turned the film of that I was watching on my iphone and fell asleep. Next thing I heard was an announcement we were arriving in Paris in 15 mins. Result!! We arrived on time at 6.15am and our Eurostar was at 8am. Hop in taxi over to Gare Du Nord, One word of caution here. It was early morning and as soon as we came off train the wife insisted on going to the loo so all the taxis had gone by the time we got to the rank. We had to wait about 10mins for the queue in front of us to leave as taxis came every few minutes. No great issue and we were in Gare Du Nord just gone 7am. Through passport and customs in about 30 seconds (compare that to an airport). Plenty of time for a coffee and croissant before our train. Train leaves on times and the journey ends at Ashford at 9am. Joy of drive home then.
Ok now the important bit. The Costs.
Ashford to Paris return £179
Overnight train 269 euro (saying 228 sterling @.85p)
Parking Ashford £35
Taxis Paris 30 euro (saying £25 @.85p)
Total £467 for the 2 of us.
+ Whatever it costs you to drive to Ashford or get to St Pancreas blah, blah. Train prices can vary etc…so can airline prices.
Flying and hiring a car would not have cost us less and we got to extra days on the slopes.
Pros
Once we had dropped the car at Ashford I had a drink. Someone else was driving on this holiday
No airport security and queuing for planes. Eurostar is a dream to go on. Yes there is security and your bag is scanned but it takes seconds compared to an airport.
We got 2 extra days on the slopes.
If the couchette had been awful and we had had a crap night’s sleep and hadn’t felt like skiing then the overnight would have been pointless. We skied as soon as we arrived. Personally there are no couchettes on the overnight Eurostar and I would not like to sit in a chair overnight for 8 hours. Overnight via Paris and taking a couchette makes more sense.
Cons.
Joking aside and I made this point earlier if you have a weak bladder think twice or avoid drinking lots before getting on the couchette. It is an 8 hour ride in the dark. Drug yourself if worried. Once the lights are out getting up and going to the loo is not easy if sharing a compartment
Luggage space on the overnight is not great. It works but its not great.
The walk from the train to the funicular in Bourg (if doing this) is a pain.
If self catering it is not practical to fill your bags with food like you can a car. We did pop down to Bourg but the shops are quite a distance from the funnicular so we shopped in the spar in 1950. A bit more than Bourg but no great hassle.
However despite the cons we would take the train as a preference to the plane any day. It was brilliant and I would encourage more to try it. It was cheaper than the plane and way, way less stressful.
Hope this helps
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 4-04-12 22:17; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi - thanks for the report. Interesting stuff.
I was part of a team that produced the SkiRail Map of the Alps to encourage and help people travel to (and around) the Alps by train.
More info here http://rogerlascellesmaps.co.uk/SkiRail_Map_Main.aspx and a free sample of the mapping here http://rogerlascellesmaps.co.uk/SkiRail_Product_Information.aspx?area=SkiRail_Product_Information
A couple of weeks back, I took the sleeper train to the Pyrenees via Paris. You also need to go from Gare du Nord to Austerlitz. We took the Metro which was fun and pretty easy (25 mins).
What I loved about the sleeper train was the sense of adventure and the whole non-slickness compared with Eurostar. It felt like being on a train in the 1970s! No announcements in English and mainly just French people, so it seemed like a genuine travelling experience.
However, we opted for a reclining seat as I couldn't bring myself to pay over £150 for a single fare (seat was £140, couchette £160) but it wasn't very comfortable. Anyway, we got to the resort by 7ish and started skiing pretty much on the first lift.
We skied two days in France and two in Spain, then flew home. Cost of a single flight? Just £40! The train fare from the Spanish Pyrenees was only £10 (3 hour trip).
Anyway, there were pros and cons of both transport types. The station experience was much quicker and less hassle than the airport. You can get a single fare with couchette for as little as £80 (from London to the ski resort). I'd definitely do it again if I could get one of those but I wouldn't wanna pay £140 for a reclining seat, especially when the flights are so cheap.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thefatcontroller, Excellent TR !
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^ ^ ^ Indeed, hugely informative. I'm going to bookmark it. Thanks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Patch, Pedantica, No worries, we struggled to find information so thought it my duty to set the record straight. Don't be put of by the transfer across Paris, getting the train skiing is a pleasurable experience  . Its not just about over-nights, there are loads of day time trains out of Paris to.
Neil Neige, Agree with you 10000%, we found the train journey an adventure and added to the holiday, whilst personally I find airports soul destroying. I was surprised at the amount of normal French using the overnight trains, they aren't just ski trains. As I said in my TR, the Eurostar does not offer couchettes and personally I would not want to do an overnight in a chair. The overnights out of Paris I think are officially referred to as 'Lunea' trains. They are mostly couchettes but there is one carriage of normally chairs which are a little cheaper, not much so can't understand why anyone would want to sit in one for 10 hours.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I can understand folks hating big uk airports; expensive, busy, time consuming MASSIVE, but I generally find rural airpots to be reasonably pleasant.
I can understand folks liking the overnight train though and this is a great rescource thefatcontroller.
I love my own bed, had consumed much booze, am a fairly light sleeper and had a bad back... all of which contributed to me HATING the journey.
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Took the direct night train for the first time a couple of weeks ago.
I liked the whole set up and will probably take it again.
Not really tempted by the couchette option as now.
A few comments about the direct train:
- as positive you get the extra 2 days on the slopes - so precious for us
- the train journey is pleasant, check in/out quick, seats are better than in planes and you get nice fleece and pillow
- the train was not full and you have the option the re-book your seats at any time so we wisely booked the empty side of the carriage, that gave us 2 seats per person so much better to get some sleep
- you can take more luggage and do not care about weight etc. - so much better
- as negative, it is very hard to sit or sleep after a few hours, for me worth the effort but I guess not for everybody. Shame I can't easily sleep on any form of transport, my girlfriend had no problem at all
- timetable is bad, your arrive too early and have to hang around the station or resort for couple of hours before the lifts start. Will be much better leaving London around 9-10pm and arrive around 8am to the Alpes
- the hardest part was the luggage on both Saturdays - you can not get into the apartment early so we sort of changed clothes in the train. Left luggage in the agency and went skiing, but it was tiring and not convenient. I guess it will be easier if you have the friendly hotel or chalet.
If you do not care about the extra days I would think the day time direct train will be a star. It is quicker, only around 6-7h, you can watch the views and there is no need to sleep.
I can hardly think of any drawbacks of the day direct train. But as desperate as we are I would take the extra days for all the inconvenience.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 3-04-12 11:26; edited 1 time in total
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I too am a big fan of the train, and have used it every year for the last few years. I will likely never fly to the alps again (hurrah!). If it's an overnight you are very wise to insist on a train with a couchette - I am the same.
As to getting up in the night: there is a small reading light next to your head in the train; I think this would be sufficient to allow you to get up without falling on anyone, but everyone's eyesight is different.
If you're waiting for a train in Bourg, there's a reasonable pizza place called Bazoom across the road.
Getting across the metro, even with bags, isn't a big deal, especially if you take the RER.
Another option is to get the last eurostar out of London on a Friday night, a cheap motel room in paris (typically available for around 40 euro) and then the first TGV down to the Alps. This will see you in the resort for lunchtime, and as the trains are very late/early they tend to be cheaper.
For all things "train to the alps" http://www.snowcarbon.co.uk is fantastic guide. As is http://www.seat61.com
A friendly chalet where you can change and leave luggage to get those extra days on the slopes is also high on my list and I always check this before booking.
Book the trains well in advance, as train prices only get more expensive. Then you are free to book accommodation nearer the time (as they tend to get cheaper). The only caveats to this are sometimes the timetable for some trains isn't released until a few weeks before travel (e.g. due to working out when engineering works are happening) and this seems to affect the overnight sleepers more than most. If there isn't a train in the timetable when you think there should be then this is likely the reason and you might be best to hang on and wait.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thefatcontroller, great report. Thanks for sharing.
Just need to bring down the cost of train travel from Scotland to London to make it work from up here.
Neil Neige, you didn't want to pay an extra £20 for a bed over a reclining seat?
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| 1st class on the couchette has 4 to a cabin. Not worth it in my opinion. |
Agree with pretty much everything you wrote apart from that bit, if the price isn't much more then it's well worth it - the beds are slightly comfier, there's more headroom as there's only 4 instead of 6 so there's a bit more luggage space too. I think there was a little goodie bag too with a couple of bits & bobs in it.
Did you feel restricted at all during the week not having a car? (aside from the shopping).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tom W, As kieranm says, if you check with where you ars staying most places are geared for Saturday morning arrivals and will let you change somewhere and store your bags for you. I'm with you though. I would not take the Eurostar overnight, the thought of sitting in those chairs overnight would horrify me.
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
| Did you feel restricted at all during the week not having a car? (aside from the shopping). |
Lets put it this was while I wasn't drunk at any point during the week, I also wouldn't have been in a position to pass a breathalyser at any point. Les Arcs and La PLagne are so huge you don't need a car. Not having a car was a huge bonus. How many people anyway hire a car in Geneva etc..drive to a ski resort, park it for 7 days and then drive back?
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You know it makes sense.
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You get a goody bag in the 2nd class couchette to. Some hand wipes, a bottle of water and ear plugs. I used the ear plugs, the wife didn't. Listen if the rpice is right take 1st class
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 3-04-12 13:28; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| kieranm wrote: |
| Another option is to get the last Eurostar out of London on a Friday night, a cheap motel room in paris (typically available for around 40 euro) and then the first TGV down to the Alps. This will see you in the resort for lunchtime, and as the trains are very late/early they tend to be cheaper. |
Good point, its not all about overnights, lots and lots of TGV day time options too, not just Eurostar. The TGV site I show in the TR is great for showing a view over a number of days so you can see the cheapest option for you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I really enjoy flying and don't find any of it a hassle. But in fairness if I ever had to use Gatwick (5 hours drive, no parking nearby, queues everywhere) I would probably feel differently. I love Doncaster airport. 
What about trains to resorts in other countries to France? Is this feasible? Also, what happens with solo travelers? Is there a huge supplement for sole use of couchette?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Also, what happens with solo travelers? Is there a huge supplement for sole use of couchette? |
I think to get solo use you would have to buy 6 tickets or go 1st class and buy 4. However I remember that at the point of booking it does ask if you want to go in a female only compartment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia, I'm not sure a single traveller would book a whole couchette 
If one wanted to, the only way would be to pay for 6 berths I would have thought. Not the same as an hotel - think more private "room" in a carriage, a bit like First Class rail carriages used to be, with a corridor running outside.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| What about trains to resorts in other countries to France? Is this feasible? |
This gives an idea of all the possibilites, and there are lots.
http://www.snowcarbon.co.uk/ski-resorts
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Last time I took a train to Wengen I got a deal on first class tickets (many years ago) and so had a first class sleeper instead of a couchette (single berth own wash basin) the disadvantage was having to change trains at Basle at 5.30am but hey ho such is life, it did make for a great start to my holiday with meal and booze included on the Eurostar
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thefatcontroller, What do you wear in the couchette? I sleep as nature intended but this is in private, what does one wear to sleep in public?
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Boredsurfing, You get a sleeping bag of sorts to slide into but basically you sleep in your clothes. All sounds a bit rough but I slept well, and once I had had a good shower in the apartment I felt raring to go. I had a spare t-shirt in my back pack and we carried some soap and tooth brushes for an early morning rinse on the train before arriving. Best to travel in loose/comfortable clothing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thefatcontroller, Chasseur, thanks for the information. Not feasible for me but I can see how it might work for others.
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shoogly, The obvious answer is to fly to Paris and get the train from there. For me getting to Paris by train on a Friday evening is just not possible and eurostar is far from cheep.
Add in the cost of getting to Asfford and it starts to get expensive.
It has been a very long time since I changed trains in Paris or indeed got the old snow train from Calais to Bourg. It was alsways a great party on the way down and a sombre return.I used to love it.
Boredsurfing, The boys wore their underpants and the girls T shirts and knickers. Our party took two compartments. It can get pretty hot and humid. And you do get a sheet and a blanket. When every one is in I reccomend locking the door. In the past there have been some roberies on the train.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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To me the obvious/easiest option would be fly to Geneva and then train to Aime/Bourg but that seems to difficult for the train co's to arrange 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 14-04-12 17:36; edited 1 time in total
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| To me the obvious/easiest option would be fly to Geneva and then train to Aime/Bourg but that seems to difficult for the train co's to arrange |
Yes, the whole Geneva to Paradski by public transport seems very expensive and really difficult? A hire car and taxi company conspiracy?
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You know it makes sense.
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I am very glad the service has improved!
A few years ago my family (2 adults & 2 kids) did the same trip. Eurostar, spent the day in Paris, Gare D'Austerlitz to Bourg, and then Funi and bus to Arc 1800.
It was Feb half term. The taxi to station, UK train to London & Eurostar were great. We left our luggage at Gare du Nord, spent the day in Paris (because all the day trains were booked) and then made our way to Austerlitz ....which was packed so full you could not move at all on the station. There were no open loos, no staff, no coffee shops or anything and the whole place looked as though it had been abandoned but then re-opened for an emergency. Beautiful station though. Not fun with 2 kids.
The train we were booked on left on time, but the rolling stock was at least 50 years old, felt like we were in wartime. One loo (almost unusably smelly) per carriage and no water at all in the hand basin, hard plastic seats/couchettes 3 high each side (no ladder) and one of the bottom ones was broken. In the end the guard moved the 2 people booked onto the 2 bottom bunks out so in the end we had a bit more space - otherwise there would have not been room for our 2 cases - but my son aged 5 fell out of bed twice and the adults got no sleep at all, a very noisy, smelly and clunky old, uncomfortable train. Arrived at Bourg at first light and it's a long walk with luggage and kids to the funi, and then we had to take a bus ride...we did ski that day but not much.
The next day we went hotfoot to the SNCF office and exchanged our return tickets (paid a big premium!) for TGV seats to back to Paris. We swore never again to travel on the sleeper. (The TGV is great, even if you have to sit on the floor because they overbook it)
I am not trying to put a damper on your great experience, just to add my 2pennyworth - but the moral to this tale is probably "don't travel by train at half term!"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowyowl, The train is a bit antiquated but not as bad as you remember. I was surprised at the number of kids travelling on the couchette, I thought it would be more an adult thing? However in our carriage coming back from Bourg were parents with 2 x girls, probably 5 and 6 years old. Was a bit horrified when I saw them as I was wondering if they would be noisy and excited at the train journey but as soon as lights went out they went of to sleep and didn't wake till Paris.
You are right, not convinced I would do the sleeper with my kids however all I am saying that where everyone heads to their airport or jumps in their car, the train is a valid option and lots and lots of day time options to. Eurostar is not the only option, plenty of TGV options out of Paris
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| thefatcontroller, What do you wear in the couchette? I sleep as nature intended but this is in private, what does one wear to sleep in public? |
I suspect at least one of the others in the Couchette I was in a few years back was wearing a condom.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thefatcontroller, What I was trying to get over is that I was really disappointed as I was expecting it to be on a par with German sleepers - or the ferries - not luxurious, or spacious, but as a minimum clean and moderately comfortable. But the train we had was really out of the ark and it was dirty and dim and really grotty. Perhaps we had the bottom of the barrel. The kids didn't notice and that wasn't the problem. After a day traipsing round Paris and at 11pm they were out like lights! I might try again someday when there are not 4 of us....but for now it makes more financial sense to drive with 4.
Chasseur, That's a relief then!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I will amended the first post and add any more tips I have remembered. Just added this. Simple but saves hassle..
Another tip for the funicular. When you get on at Bourg and you have luggage go to the front of the train. The reason..The train arrives into a sloped platform at Arc1600. If you are at the back of the train you will have to cart your bags up some steps on the platform to the flat piece at the top. The platform in Bourg is flat. Conversely when getting on in 1600 don't bother going to the front of the train.
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FAQ
