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Airbag Choice - Listen to S&R or Snowheads?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
...ok, so I know that's a no-brainer, but it's been at least a month or two since the last airbag thread and I wanted to check the latest info.

I've been thinking about an avalanche airbag for a while, and am getting near pulling the trigger. Being a cautious consumer (especially when I'm staring down the barrel of a £600 price tag!), I've spent a while reading threads on here, and had pretty much come to the conclusion that livetoski's preferences for the Snowpulse should be a fairly safe bet and that was probably the way to go.

I saw a couple of threads on pack size as well, though, so thought I'd nip into S&R in Covent Garden to see how the different packs fitted. While I was trying the Snowpulse on one of the assistants wandered over and told me pretty bluntly that the last bag I should be buying was a Snowpulse. His basic arguments were:

- they've had a complete product recall of their first generation inflation mechanism, why would you trust them?
- everyone that he knew of who had a pack at the time of the recall returned it and swapped to ABS or BCA
- they badly affect your vision once inflated, meaning you a much reduced chance of skiing
- they've switched to Nitrogen so the cylinders are no longer refillable, so you might as well go for an ABS or a BCA. In fact, he pushed the BCA Float (30) pretty hard all the way through our conversation...he looked pretty upset when I didn't buy one from him Razz

I'm not aiming to pit livetoski's advice against that from a pushy salesman from S&R, but I wondered what general opinion was of Snowpulse since their recall? There was quite a bit of comment on the ABS recall, but I don't remember (and can't find) much on the Snowpulse one...

Now they're owned by a bigger company, and have clearly been checking their quality levels, are Snowpulse actually a safer bet than other brands?

Should I quit moaning and mtfu and buy whichever I can find cheapest?!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ChrisWo, this may or may not influence your decision but I understand that ABS are now allowing other (i.e. specialist sack) makers to produce sacks to fit their base units - another factor to throw in Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have a snowpluse and I like it. The story on the recall was that when mamut took over snowpluse they didn't much like the cylinders. They were air filled with a gauge and user refillable plus on the heavy side. They decided that they wanted to go with nitrogen, and refill the cylinders themselves. The new ones from 2012 are a new type and referred to as 2.0

I think airbags are a bit like torches, its not which exact one is best but that you have one at all went the crap hits the fan.

The skiing with an inflated cylinder is a trade off, the snowpluse wraps around your head and protects it the abs inflates behind your head but lets you see better.

A big issue is comfort, the snowpluse (not the RAS) has the bag stuffed in the shoulder straps and seems stiff and bulky when you try it in the shop, in use the straps become softer and you barely notice.

I am very impressed with the quality of the finish on my bag, all the bits of metal are well finished and there are all the straps you need for skis (works great), ice axes etc. and they all tuck away neatly into little pockets which is great. I have a 22l and its big enough for all the avi kit in its own pocket plus skins. The other compartment will take drinks and a picnic, plus a warm top and thin hardshell. Not really enough room for a rope and crampons so go for a 30l if you need this. You can keep it on riding a modern chair if you are careful.

As always there is new stuff coming out next year, incl. a nice one I have seen from scott.

In action.

The red ones are the Scott, the black one snowpluse. The Scotts are the same size on two differently sized people!

One thing I also really like about the SP is the trigger handle folds easily into its own zipped pocket for when you are riding lifts or skiing trees.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
ChrisWo wrote:
- they've had a complete product recall of their first generation inflation mechanism, why would you trust them?
I'd trust them less if news of leaky valves on 1st gen cylinders was getting out on the forums and the didn't do a recall. I've been happy when my car manufacturer has done safety recalls, and was happy that my Snowpulse was recalled.


ChrisWo wrote:
- everyone that he knew of who had a pack at the time of the recall returned it and swapped to ABS or BCA
I won't be. I'd like to upgrade to a 2nd gen pack as I think they are slightly better, but I'm happy with Snowpulse.
ChrisWo wrote:
- they badly affect your vision once inflated, meaning you a much reduced chance of skiing
I don't understand this point. The opportunity to ski your way out after you have inflated the bag will be limited or zero. On the other hand, the extra protection against injury that the Snowpulse bag seems to offer (by inflating around your head) might well be a good thing.
ChrisWo wrote:
- they've switched to Nitrogen so the cylinders are no longer refillable, so you might as well go for an ABS or a BCA.
That's not an argument in favour of an ABS or BCA, it's an argument for discounting this factor when making your choice.

On a different aspect, the only issues I've had when flying with an airbag have been at Japanese airports, and on both occasions I was glad I didn't have to explain there was an explosive trigger, despite what the IATA regulations say.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
When I bought mine, I took the view that all the systems had their plusses and minuses and chose what I considered to be the best pack (ie discounting the airbag functionality.) That was the Snowpulse at the time and I don't regret that choice
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I went for snowpulse due to the extra head protection and the fact all the ski carry straps push back into the sack, so nothing to get caught on lifts etc.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks all - that basically tallies with what I'd read before, which I guess means the recall hasn't significantly dimmed people's enthusiasm for Snowpulse. I was kind of expecting that, but the strength of the S&R guy's views on Snowpulse surprised me a bit.

Has the Snowpulse 2.0 system got a pressure gauge on the cylinder? If not, what's the process for checking that it's still fully charged? I didn't much like the idea of getting an accurate digital scale and weighing the ABS cylinder every time I went away...the gauge on the BCA cylinder looked like a better idea to me.

jbob - now you mention it, I really didn't like the look of the trigger on the BCA - it was a bit small and flimsy looking (probably just aethetics, but the transparent plastic made it look really cheap). And the Scott bag looks nice, and would match my ski suit much better.... wink

rob@rar wrote:

I was glad I didn't have to explain there was an explosive trigger

This puts me off the ABS a lot...and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Euro ABS cylinders aren't currently approved for transport to the US? Not a huge deal for me, but it seems like another reason not to pay more for an ABS.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The SP 2.0 has no gauge. The cylinder can be checked by weighing it. A friend of mind lost her abs trigger, it fell off somewhere! You have to ask yourself if the s and r guy's experience of abs is from actual use or from briefings from reps, it might be an idea to ask him.

The one big advantage of the modular systems like abs is that you can use a varity of different size sacs with the same base unit.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've just switched from ABS to SnowPulse.

I never found my ABS particularly comfy on my back. The straps always drifted loose, so it felt "flappy", especially when hiking with snowboard attached.

I lost 2 handles, just fell out inexplicably (probably not installed properly, but it's a bit too easy for that to happen, especially at €35 a go for replacement).

With all the airbag gubbins against your back, the contents of your pack sit further out, contributing to the flappy feel.

Visibility when skiing with it inflated? Seriously? If you're inflating it for real, visibility is the least of your worries.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jbob wrote:

You have to ask yourself if the s and r guy's experience of abs is from actual use or from briefings from reps, it might be an idea to ask him.

Agreed. My general view on salespeople (having briefly been one myself) is that if they tell you what you should do without asking any questions then they aren't very good. This guy didn't fill me with confidence (but I wanted to check here if people were still happy with Snowpulse).

It's kind of a shame that BCA took a while to get their offering over to Europe, as I think they missed out on the early adopters (and hence quite a lot of word of mouth press).
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
jbob wrote:
The SP 2.0 has no gauge. The cylinder can be checked by weighing it. A friend of mind lost her abs trigger, it fell off somewhere! You have to ask yourself if the s and r guy's experience of abs is from actual use or from briefings from reps, it might be an idea to ask him.

The one big advantage of the modular systems like abs is that you can use a varity of different size sacs with the same base unit.


The new Scott pack uses the SP removable system. It inflates behind the head rather than around it like the existing packs. I guess there will be a proliferation of ABS/SP compatible packs next season.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Someone I know was face down in an avalanche and pulled the handle on his Snowpulse. He ended up with head and one arm clear out of the snow. 3 days later I bought the same Snowpulse. I like the fact that I could inflate it in the shop using a test cylinder, and that they would replace the cylinder for 29 euros if I used my one. I think the bag could do a lot to protect the head, partly by lifting it higher out of the snow away from some rocks. I could see fine with it inflated and would be happy to ski for some distance like that if it came to it. I think the supposed vision issue would only really affect my snowboarding as on the toe-edge I might then have to counter-rotate my body to see down the hill better.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
For my twopence buy the pack that fits your body shape best and is comfortable. The one you'll wear is the one with the most chance of saving your life.
I've got an old ABS pack which I'm looking to upgrade at some pt in the next couple of years. Having tried on a few for me the best fit seemed to be the snowpulse. I'm a bit disappointed that they changed they're cyclinder to nitrogen and I see that the US version is still 207 bar O2 (probably because its approved for Candian airlines but not IATA).
Despite what people say I wouldn't worry too much about the abs explosive trigger- it never seems to be a problem only the cannister which is the same with all systems.
As for recalls on snowpulse, well ABS recalled cylinders last year so i wouldn't let that change your choice.
What I would take into consideration is after sales service I thought ABS were bloody useless and never responded to questions RE service, etc. Snowsafe who sell them in the UK were excellent though (I did go into the Snow and Rock at Hemel last year and got many confused looks).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Listen to S&R or Snowheads?


Take advice from both with a large pinch of salt... wink

ABS / BCA / SnowPulse are all good systems with their own advantages / disadvantages.

The switch to nitrogen is less likely to freeze in the pipes (vs compressed air).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
betterinblack, you're right that the key is to get one that you'll wear regularly. I've never had a big problem with packs fitting me (unlike ski boots, but that's another thread), so I think for me that actually equates to the one that's easiest to transport by air (that's the main factor that's going to put me off using the pack). That points to the BCA or Snowpulse (on the grounds that I'm most nervous about the ABS explosive trigger)...possibly given the ease of refilling that would give the edge to the BCA packs.

Haggis_Trap, Smile
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ChrisWo wrote:
.
- they badly affect your vision once inflated, meaning you a much reduced chance of skiing


Blimey, hurtling down an avalanched mountain at silly speeds with an inflated airbag, even if you could see, what are you going to do? Too much U-Tube, me thinks perhaps.

Trouble with these things is, they are used so infrequently that there is no real evidence that one is better than the other. Best bet is to buy any of them and regularly inflate them, so you're totally confident that the kit works, and does what you expect. It's pennies to get an ABS cylinder refilled (or is it free, just P&P)??

I bought a second hand ABS a couple of years ago, I have inflated it a few times, know exactly what happens,......... and didn't bother wearing it this season, I'm back home now.
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