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The snowHeads ACL rehab club !

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Markhandford, looking good! Big big congrats and kudos for keeping at it. It’s not an easy recovery for even one of the catalogue of injuries you’ve had. Keep on keeping on, and you’ll come through the other end stronger and better!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Markhandford, well done!

One thing i found that really helped the demons in my head afterwards was getting kneebindings. These have a third release angle and allow the heal to twist out.
ski holidays     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
So here’s a quick 8 month + 6 day update: from my day to day perspective, not a huge amount has changed in the last month or so. Still doing body pump classes plus leg press, Nordics, RDLs etc twice a week, light rehab twice and running twice. The leg press has moved on to single leg, though I’m at a pretty puny 30kgs right now (vs 54 kgs body weight), and with the other foot down on the ground rather than in the air. Running-wise, I’ve got up to 3x10 minutes and due to try my first 30 minutes continuous running within the next couple of sessions. I’m also due to do my first squat jumps next week, and to start cutting and pivoting with the physio in the New Year. The back flare up is slowly settling down. The knee is still grumbly, especially on running or heavy gym days - though also at completely random times, just, you know, for laughs. The aches are mostly medial - from the calves and hamstrings - or in the hamstring itself. It’s really not a huge fan of standing around. And I’m still prone to knee paranoia- for instance darting to stop a door locking on me tonight, albeit it was mostly on the good leg. Also I’m still missing a few degrees flex (that hamstring again!) so getting stuff off the bottom shelf can be an entertaining sight.
I realise this can sound as a big laundry list of moans. But in the grand scheme of things it’s come a long way- even with my slow rate of muscle gain and slightly awkward bone structure. Even the fact of being able to run on a knee that is solid and stable - though it doesn’t yet feel entirely “normal” - is pretty amazing. I’m aware of that every time I get up, put my full weight on the knee and it holds. Onwards and upwards and we’ll all get there.
Now for the fun I’m having persuading the insurance company to cover the rest of the physio I still need. I have a feeling I’m not going to win this one, and we’ll have to pay for the rest ourselves. I’m aware I’m pretty lucky though to have had as much covered as I have - many are not. So I’m not complaining!
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BorntoRun wrote:
So here’s a quick 8 month + 6 day update: from my day to day perspective, not a huge amount has changed in the last month or so. Still doing body pump classes plus leg press, Nordics, RDLs etc twice a week, light rehab twice and running twice. The leg press has moved on to single leg, though I’m at a pretty puny 30kgs right now (vs 54 kgs body weight), and with the other foot down on the ground rather than in the air. Running-wise, I’ve got up to 3x10 minutes and due to try my first 30 minutes continuous running within the next couple of sessions. I’m also due to do my first squat jumps next week, and to start cutting and pivoting with the physio in the New Year. The back flare up is slowly settling down. The knee is still grumbly, especially on running or heavy gym days - though also at completely random times, just, you know, for laughs. The aches are mostly medial - from tight calves and hamstrings pulling the knee - or in the hamstring itself. It’s really not a huge fan of standing around. And I’m still prone to knee paranoia- for instance darting to stop a door locking on me tonight, albeit it was mostly on the good leg. Also I’m still missing a few degrees flex (that hamstring again!) so getting stuff off the bottom shelf can be an entertaining sight.
I realise this can sound as a big laundry list of moans. But in the grand scheme of things it’s come a long way- even with my slow rate of muscle gain and slightly awkward bone structure. Even the fact of being able to run on a knee that is solid and stable - though it doesn’t yet feel entirely “normal” - is pretty amazing. I’m aware of that every time I get up, put my full weight on the knee and it holds. Onwards and upwards and we’ll all get there.
Now for the fun I’m having persuading the insurance company to cover the rest of the physio I still need. I have a feeling I’m not going to win this one, and we’ll have to pay for the rest ourselves. I’m aware I’m pretty lucky though to have had as much covered as I have - many are not. So I’m not complaining!
ski holidays     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My only current report is do not, repeat not, get a nasty cold, flu or/and throat bug. Never mind all my muscles aching in general, between feeling sh1tty for nearly a month (yes, I did ask the GP if it should go on for that long), struggling for 'puff' and generally being very wary with anything that might put too much strain on the heart, I feel like I've just undone every bit of exercise and strengthening that I've achieved over the last 18 months Crying or Very sad
Tried today some gentle squats, lunges, sofa ham lifts, all the usuals: severe burning and muscle fatigue after very few reps at all, about 1/3rd (at best) of what I can normally manage.
Off for a solid week of snow fun in a month - not chuffed Sad
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@Grizzler, you poor thing! You’ve just described out one of my biggest paranoias over the last 8 months - second only to the graft. I give the evilest evils to people hacking and coughing everywhere on the tube or at work, wrap my scarf around half my face and scuttle off in search of First Defence. My husband had a bug, and I pretty much just stopped short of wearing a hazmat suit.
Two things: first, did the GP check it out properly? Years ago I wandered around for a few weeks with what turned out to be pneumonia. They only took me seriously when I really threw my toys out of the pram and demanded a sample test. Quickly fixed once I got the right antibiotics. Second, and from the same sorry saga. The loss of fitness seems terrifying, but it comes back surprisingly quickly. I was ill for two months in total and the return to strength was pretty swift. Fingers crossed!! You’re through the worst, and it’s all recovery from here.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BorntoRun, thank you. Fingers crossed indeed.
snow conditions     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/penn-state-researchers-3d-print-porous-tissues-for-bone-and-cartilage-implants-146017/

A bit more research on going into 'bio fabricated' cartilage. I'd be surprised if they are using the machine pictured in the article though.
snow conditions     
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@AndAnotherThing.., fingers crossed. When I was moaning to my surgeon about my now higher risk of getting osteoarthritis, he said a. most of us will; b. with any luck there’ll be new technologies for that. Here’s hoping!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Well... Seems to have been a quiet time on here for most, except for horrendous @Grizzler illnesses. I've been terrified of that since the op, sorry to hear one got you.

I've been away from this thread a while, which is a very good sign I guess? Things other than op/graft/physio occupying my mental space? Who'd have thought that'd ever happen?!?! Wtf.

Update: About 6 months in now. Long enough I'm not counting the weeks any more!

Not much to report really. I guess I'm in that slow long boring stage where things aren't moving so fast eh. Still doing squats lunges wobble boards and those bulgarian things regularly, and jumping about. I had a few slow weeks on the physio with a terrible sciatica and back pain unfortunately, but I'm back in the rhythm now. Only thing of note to mention is that I saw the surgeons assistant (i asked for the surgeon himself but unfortunately didn't get him) who was very positive about a nice mellow return to the snowboard in a month or so, with the usual caveats about listening to any pain or swelling it may cause and stopping/resting.

His words were something like "well that was the whole point of the operation wasn't it?"

A good thing to hear, but it doesn't stop the idea being fecking terrifying. The actual act of riding it isnt' scary, but falling... Oh god, no, please... No. And getting off lifts on the board too, with my front (op) leg strapped in and all that potential for leverage if I or someone else does something stupid. I'm wondering if the surgeon himself would have been so positive, as he was more along the lines of "hmm, maybe, with a brace, and if you take it very easy, you might be back for next season" when he was assessing me for the op.

Ah well, gotta start somewhere I guess. Touch wood. I don't know. Scary stuff.

My physio is doing some brace research for me. He's not used to snow, it's almost entirely football ruptures he deals with.

And, I've just bought one of those indoor cycle trainers you stick your bike onto because I've been very bad at getting out on the thing since weather started being a thing that happens outside.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@jjams82, how funny, my back went too. Which is to say it went into spasm. I’ve had periodic episodes over the years because of tight hammies but this was on a whole new level - courtesy of hip flexors getting in on the act after some standing bike intervals. Extending my leg forward or - heaven forbid - sideways from the hip was like sticking red hot pokers in my back. Made pulling a chair in when sitting down very interesting. Putting shoes on and taking them off, likewise. It’s pretty much gone now, and a hot water bottle behind my back has been my best friend.
Brilliant news about the return to boarding. Are you trying an indoor slope first? I’m sure you’ve thought about it, but there might be other SnowHead knee veterans doing the same if you’re looking for moral support. And I’m not surprised you’re terrified! The rehab battle is half in the legs, half in the head, and I think the head is the trickier part. For all it’s worth, I’d say you’re half way there first because - shock horror - sounds like you’re not thinking about the knee all the time. Second, you’re prepared to consider the snowboarding, which is big in itself. I’m guessing your physio thinks it’s a viable plan? They often have the most accurate view of where your strength is at and what your knee can and can’t take.
I’m impressed with how well you’re doing yet again. The mental part is still a big thing for me, with poor Mr BtR still subjected to regular episodes of “oh my God, is the graft OK?”. Latest was today, from my parents’ dog shuffling between my legs to go through a door before me and making contact with my knee on the inside. He’s strong and of course the scars don’t like stuff rubbing them, but there was no twisting, buckling, stumbling, etc. Did that stop me worrying? Hell no! And it’ll be at the back of my mind the next time I have an odd sensation in the knee, which of course we all still do. Och well. This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass. Otherwise, I’m up to 30 minutes’ running twice a week, and doing my first sets of squat jumps - never realised what a hammy and glute buster those can be when done properly. Though the physio kept shouting “jump higher, squat lower” so there are more levels of burn to go there.
Keep us updated on the snowboarding, crossing fingers and looking forward to hearing about it.
And @Grizzler, how’s the evil lurgy? Better I hope?
ski holidays     
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@BorntoRun, Hey hey! I know what you mean about the dog running about your legs, I had similar over Christmas with my nieces playing "climb up uncle Jon and steal his hat then run away". The little sods are stronger and scarier than they think:D

As far as the physio and returning to boarding, he's quite relaxed about everything - nothing is as big a deal as i think it is, it's never as bad as I worry, and of course it feels this way or that way, it's had a major trauma, stop worrying about it and let it do it's thing. I joke with him that 80% of his job is holding peoples hands and telling them it's ok. As far as he's concerned, returning to boarding seems to be just another thing I'm gonna have to try out carefully and get back into slowly. Unfortunately it's not like riding a bike or running - get on bike or try running, see how it feels. It's more like - spend £1000+, commit to a week hundreds of miles away, and hope it's ok!

I'd forgot about the indoor slope... It might have to happen quite soon eh. Christ. Scary... It'll be a nice hurdle to get over though I guess!
snow report     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Festive belated greetings to all ACL-challenged knees and their owners.

Memo - when the large family gathering start playing a game of pick the 1/8th cereal box off the floor with your teeth (no hands or knees can touch the floor but both feet must stay on floor), realise that no matter how proud you are of your maturing body, your 18 year old ballet-dancing great neice and yoga-instructing neice-in-law do not have buggered knees! Ouch... rolling eyes Sad Still, interesting to find out that whilst my inner to rear thighs are much much tighter than theirs (i.e. they can easily do side splits and bend their head to their feet), my lunge splits and ability to crouch cross-footed and get up again are much much better than theirs Laughing (and ouch again!)

@jjams82, I found boarding fine, falls OK (I'm not an expert boarder, so am quite good at falling!) but a big risk issue when one foot isn't strapped in, like punting along, getting on and off lifts etc - so be careful there. Might just be with my particular leg/knee design, but it's the one bit that's really putting me off boarding at the mo, otherwise I think I might board more than ski this season (though it's nice to be able to swap between them and strain and tire different muscle and knee parts Cool ).
ski holidays     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jjams82, I see your point, but then there are worse things than an alpine holiday with a big merry group and a liberal smattering of hot chocolate/gluhwein/raclette (delete as appropriate depending on destination and preferences). Maybe look at it that way, and boarding as a nice bonus on top. Take it easy, get into it slowly, look after that leg, and with any luck it’ll turn out to be more boarding than you expected.
@Grizzler, impressive! You put us to shame with your acrobatics. The bottom shelf might as well be in another galaxy as far as my knee flex is concerned. We had estate agents round to value our flat recently, and I plonked myself down on the floor as usual to grab some papers from the bottom drawer. They looked a bit puzzled, to put it mildly!
ski holidays     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@BorntoRun, Indeed! I think dolomites holiday with a bit of boarding as a bonus on top is how I'm going to look at it.

@Grizzler, Yes... So much yes about the one leg strapped in stuff, especially with it being the op leg that's still strapped in. It's probably my biggest fear at the moment. I tend to ride with a forward stance so I may even rotate my front foot a little more in line with the direction of travel so there's less of a twist in it when i'm on and off lifts etc. Even the idea of skis/boards coming into contact with the back of my board in crowded lift queues is a little unnerving.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@jjams82, my worry is not so much the strapped-in foot - though that can take a lot of jarring with the board attached if all doesn't go entirely to plan when not actively riding! - but the unstrapped foot. I think that's the one which takes more strain overall. Lost it punting on an icy traverse last year, and 'sank' to the floor with the rear leg twisted under me. Fortunately didn't do anything too nasty, I hope, but was painful temporarily on the outside joint line area and definitely worrying. But so is falling with 2 planks attached (or ripping off, if the bindings release properly). I ride +/- 6 or 9, just can't ride at other angles. Probably doesn't make life easy for my knees either, and certainly not the easiest way to punt around and do chairs, lifts etc. Hey ho. Why do we do these silly things???

@BorntoRun, worry not, it took a good 12++ months for me to stop having to crawl on all fours to get stuff off the floor - and I still have something muscular (??) too tight to make full crouching possible and pain-free. Kneeling is so much easier: once I finally got full flexion in the knees & legs. That also took a long long time, and a lot of house-move packing and unpacking was the only thing which eventually forced it to happen (or something). Mind you, if something gets irritated, that still becomes more of an issue again, stiffness or whatever you want to call it. The ability to get down and back up with crossed feet was a major milestone for me, but actually came much earlier than full kneel. Quad strength and balance, I assume; though can irritate the lateral joint line areas (as can most things now, sadly).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Am now out. Have skiied two days since the op, wearing a brace. I have been terrified if getting back on skis.

I am no longer scared.

Take heart people. Despite a weak hamstring and fitness that could be better, I got on a pair of race skis and did fast skiing on empty slopes on Friday, and today did off piste tree skiing. Have also had my first big wipe out of the season, with no Ill effects. Have even been landing little pops and jumps. So far, the only physical tho g I have noticed is tired quads from leaning back a bit too much: and that is psychological - skiing when a bit nervous and not stand g up and forwards properly. Nothing to do with the knee - this is just the brain.

My body has remembered how to ski after two years and several operations between this and my last session, and apart from some psychological issues meaning that I should flex and use my knee more, going back to the slopes has been just fine.

There is life after knee damage, I am happy to report.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Harry Flashman, Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Sounds excellent. That first wipe out is so psychologically important!

Just about to take my own little nigglers for their first overseas 6 day trip since their injuries. Quite happy about English and Scottish ski/board in all conditions, but quite worried about how they'll cope for 6 (expensive) days on the run. Digits crossed. At least self catering I can buy a bag of frozen peas and will have a fridge to put them in Laughing
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@Harry Flashman, great news! Big congrats, very much deserved! @Grizzler, if the knees can hope with everything English and Scottish conditions throw at them, I reckon they’ll do you proud. Fingers crossed, let us know how it goes!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Harry Flashman, Good stuff!!

Very Happy
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Thanks all. I hope that my post gives folk hope. For info, as posted earlier my rehab commitment was poor (I did about 20% of what was recommended) but was on my feet a lot as I was renovating our house. For comparisons, I am 41, an early expert skiier level 10 on the Inside out scale, about a stone and a half overweight and not very fit (at the moment - I am hoping that this season sees to the last three on that list!).

So the message is I am no superhuman paragon of fitness, nor was I anything like as good as I should have been on rehab. Time has been my ally, and probably being on my feet a lot with a house and garden renovation plus a new baby. I missed last season completely as the accident was in April 2017.

And good luck @Grizzler!
ski holidays     
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Slight update - big days of skiing are getting me a bit of knee and shin pain (a low ache, nothing that requires painkillers etc). I skiied the Swiss Wall in Avoriaz today, and whilst a short run, it is intense and the moguls have challenged my leg a bit. Muscular, so definitely to do with my slack rehab rather than any real problems. There's a lesson here, somewhere...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Harry Flashman, sounds like your knee is getting some good functional rehab there!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
It is! Also, I have an Ossur knee brace. Useless - as I ski more, my leg is changing shape, so after just two weeks it barely fits and chafes like a sod. Total waste of £600.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Harry Flashman, but a clear sign that those muscles are getting stronger!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Harry Flashman, pooh Sad The reason I wouldn't go for a custom fit one, certainly. But at least a sign that the skiing is helping Very Happy and the muscles are responding to proper exercise as they should.
My leg Tubigrip won't fit any more either (last year it fit over 2 layers of tights, now not even really on bare skin), and my knees are aching after skiing this week. Unfortunately I'm putting my fit issues more down to a few excesses over Xmas Laughing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Harry Flashman wrote:
It is! Also, I have an Ossur knee brace. Useless - as I ski more, my leg is changing shape, so after just two weeks it barely fits and chafes like a sod. Total waste of £600.


You'll probably get 400 for it
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Harry Flashman wrote:
It is! Also, I have an Ossur knee brace. Useless - as I ski more, my leg is changing shape, so after just two weeks it barely fits and chafes like a sod. Total waste of £600.


I’ve checked with my orthotist. They have a 12 month fit warranty. Outside if that they can be tweaked/ adjusted/ heated by an orthotist to improve the fit. How old is yours?
snow conditions     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks Jonathan - I got it about six months ago and it is a standard fit one, so I shall fiddle around with the straps and see if I can get it to fit!

Helpful forum, as ever.
snow report     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Harry Flashman wrote:
Thanks Jonathan - I got it about six months ago and it is a standard fit one, so I shall fiddle around with the straps and see if I can get it to fit!

Helpful forum, as ever.


Ossur are pretty good so don't let it drift.
I know the tightening of the straps seems a bit like a dark art until you get it right!
Even if you didn't have it fitted by an orthotist you should be able to get one to look at it for you if you struggle.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I have posted on the "No ACL, doing fine" (ahem) thread the Nordic (Lappish?) Saga of Grizzler's Knees Go To Finland, for anyone interested. We're still upright, I'm pleased to say Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Grizzler, congratulations, great news! Sorry to hear about the pain but hopefully it’s just a muscle imbalance you can correct with the right exercises and stretches. Keeping fingers crossed, let us know what the Dr/ physio say. I think it sounds like a very good idea to have it seen, if only to make sure you’re doing the right exercises for it etc.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
And this, folk, is why this injury is (literally) a pain. Took a tumble off-piste yesterday and the knee started aching. Managed to very gingerly ski down to the car and get home, but turning on the bad leg was painful. Whilst the worst of the pain is gone, there is a definite ache in the graft (it does not feel muscular). Heading to a physio for an evaluation this afternoon. But certainly not skiing for a while.

I was wearing the Ossur brace. I am praying that this is not an early end to the season. Gutted.
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@Harry Flashman, oh no!

I hope it is nothing serious and that you are back in a few days.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Harry Flashman, my heart goes out to you, but also hoping it’s just a tweak/ pulled muscle. Good choice to see a physio, a good one should be able to give you a fairly accurate diagnosis. Let us know how you get on, keeping everything there is crossed!
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@Harry Flashman, Oh pooh again! Sad It was all going so well. Let's hope it's just a minor set back. These things do happen; been there, rushed to that doctor...
Take it easy, fingers crossed.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
So I saw Sarah at Mountain Rehab in Morzine (recommended). This was a genuine warning shot - that weak hamstring means that the ACL is more stressed than usual, and me heading straight off piste and into bumps without the requisite strength, conditioning or even warm-ups led to this. No serious damage, but I need to slow down, do shorter ski sessions, get back in the gym and do the warm-ups. The graft is fine, but my leg is still weak. And we think that that Ossur knee brace I was whining about a few posts ago may have saved me from something far worse!

I am basically very lucky that nothing bad happened, and I got myself off the mountain at the first sign of trouble. I thought I could ski the way I did before, straight away, rather than easing back into it. No chance! Hope that is a lesson to all of us.

I am going to find a pair of nice, soft, intermediate all mountain skis, and stay on piste, off bumps, and work on my strength and technique!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Harry Flashman, good news Very Happy
Now just keep a good watch out for all those out of control, attention-less idiots on piste rolling eyes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Harry Flashman, Phew! What a relief! And it may not be off piste, but you still get to ski. Very pleased to hear.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thanks! I feel lucky, and that I have learned a bit of a lesson about overconfidence on the mountain...
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