My lad (Skidog) starts his ISIA Tech course today, and I can't help wondering:
How difficult is it?
What sort of % rate pass on a typical course?
Is the difficulty due to precise skiing "tweeks" or is it a physical thing?
He has been hitting the gym big time the last months, working up a program that jjc james sent by email (apologies if it was the other jjc!) and he is looking ripped and with great core, so hopefully the physicality of it will be OK.
Any feedback/experiences from other ISIA Techies would be most welcome for me.
Fingers crossed at the parental end.....
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
have a look at the basi YouTube page, they have videos of a trainer demoing the standard (although he gets carried away in the bumps!). Fitness shouldn't be a problem for a young lad. Good luck to him!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Is he doing it in Verbier?
Quote:
Is the difficulty due to precise skiing "tweeks" or is it a physical thing?
I'd say for someone young with good fitness it's much more technical than physical.
The pass rate is not that high, as there are a lot of people who turn up to the course before they're at the right level to use it as a training course.
It's a tough course, and a big jump up from Level 2.
He did have an "assesment" with the head of NewGen who thought he was at the required level so long as he listened to the trainers and did what they said.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Should have a good chance then.
There are 4 x L3 tech groups in Verbier this week, busy course!
beanie1, can you ask nicely for BASI to run the ISIA Teaching course in Verbier next year (like they used to do).
Makes life a lot easier (and cheaper) for us!
This year it hasn't come to Verbier, no idea why, they used to run Tech and Teach sequentially which meant there was a chance to do both in one trip.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rungsp, the request is best coming direct from you to the office. BASI do consider all such requests when scheduling courses. They don't like to offer too many options though, as otherwise they don't get enough people on each course and they have to cancel.
After all it is free
After all it is free
rungsp, tech and teach back to back is pretty full on.. i did it that way and in hindsight wouldnt have if were to do it over.. mentally and physically tough.. if he is fit can make changes to his skiing and can demonstrate a refined level of skill should be okay if Tom S recons he is at the bar...
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I asked the BASI office about running a teach course in verbier this year. The reply indicated that the reason for not doing so is one of cost, suggesting that paying for a trainer and associated expenses in Verbier on a short course for a small group isn't financially viable!!
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rungsp, How's your son getting on?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Phonecall last night.
He reckons he is about 4th or 5th in his group of eight. Still, it is not his opinion that will count.
He is concerned about making the grade, it is a high level that is required.
Told to make sure his downhill ski does not fall behind on long turns.
Round off 100% of turns and no traverse at all on steeps/variables
Something else on shorts (I can't remember!)
Today they get specific this-is-what-you-need-to-work-on feedback for the weekend.
Interestingly he said that of the four groups there is one made up of people who have been training all season with Ski School A and another with Ski School B.
To his eye Ski School A are very well prepared (and the best group overall). Considering that they will have paid many 1000's pounds for a dedicated programme one would hope that they would be.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 27-03-12 10:12; edited 2 times in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rungsp, Hope it goes well for him. At least he's getting specific feedback and he's not mentioned bumps.
Interesting the gap\prep courses for L3 - I've always wondered how much value they offer compared to managing your own training & development, assuming you have occasional access to a current L3 trainer to keep on track.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rungsp, sounds about right for a pass, a few things to sort out but no major dramas.... the first week is a training week and he will need to blast it early in week 2 to show the trainer he is on it.... Nail a couple days week two and its over the bar...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Trainer referred to him as "my wildcard"
He is the only one in the course who is not at least semi fulltime ski instructor or training course, and of the younger lot the only one who did not start through a gap year course.
I chose to interpret "my wildcard" as a positive....hope the trainer means it that way too!!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Good luck to him, I view it positively that he has specific things to work on!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just ran a level 3 for IASI ( Irish association) in Hintertux. It's an ISIA tech level so outcome same as the Basi. Out of a group of 8 we had one full pass and 4 with a deferral. This is when they are down in One strand so need to return for assessment in that strand ( the other strands are Passed). This is only possible if ONE strand is down, multipule strands are a full re sit . We had 3 candidates that wil need to return to re sit the course.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
gilleski, BASI's slightly different though isn't it? You either pass or fail, but are told to either re-sit the full 2 week course or 1 week re-sit?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yes in Basi it's pass or fail, but the re sit is only 5 days. I guess it's quite similar in that sense as the deferrals will still need to attend an assessment. Most will do that by attending a course on snow ran by a trainer. Iasi tech failures attend another 6 day assessment course in the future.
Well if he does not pass then the buck stops with you gilleski since you were his trainer for BASI 2 in 2009
Are you doing the summer Hintertux BASI 2 this year? If so then you have a second chance....his sister is booked for that one.
Parental fingers crossed at this end......
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rungsp, ah, then sure he has all the skills to pull out of the bag! Wish him luck from me. Not sure about summer allocations yet, just got back from Tux and it's in top form!
nice one good to hear as i am out in a few weeks for my first visit to Tux.. Yikes 1 pass, 3 flunks and 4 deferrals sounds a tough couple of weeks for the Irish L3 candidates
saying that I think the Irish approach of deferrals if you fail one strand is most sensible... BASI should take note.....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rungsp, how did your lad get on?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Four groups with eight people in each group.
Two of the groups were Verbier ski school ISIA trainees. (Some of whom were doing their tech for the 2nd time)
The two other groups were a mixture of people including a few full time trainees/instructors.
Five out of eight from ski school A passed. Four out of eight from ski school B passed (Their performance level increased a fair amount over the two week period)
Two out of of sixteen passed from the two mixed groups, one from each group of 8 (One of the people who passed was taking their Tech for the second time)
Both who passed were training and working for the full season.
No co-incidence that all the 11 out of 32 people who passed, are full time working and training in resort.
Apparently the pass level standard has increased dramatically over the last year or so, in order to decrease the size of the jump from Level 3 to Level 4.
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Touchguru,
The standard hasn't changed since the L3 was introduced. What has possibly improved is the trainers' consistency, which they are always striving for to ensure fairness between courses. On a course with 4 groups like this one, the trainers will all have looked at and discussed each others groups as well as their own.
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beanie1, Sorry beanie I cannot agree with you having seen some of the L3 tech passes in previous years versus the standard and things that the trainers were looking for now.
This statement about the pass level standard being raised is not from my mouth but from a fair few ISTD's I have spoken to.
I am not saying that it is bad thing! On the contrary, I actually think it is a good thing.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Touchguru, the standard itself hasn't changed, the outcome standard is set out in the workbooks and on the BASI youtube channel.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
beanie1 wrote:
Touchguru, the standard itself hasn't changed, the outcome standard is set out in the workbooks and on the BASI youtube channel.
If that was the case with regards the moguls video then almost no-one should have passed.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Touchguru, Did you pass??
rungsp, How did your lad get on?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The Lad was in one of the 1/8 groups, sadly he was not the 1/8 in his group.
A lot of frustrated people by all accounts, and the word from some re-takers echos what Touchguru says about the level being raised significantly.
I'd be interested to see the statistics on pass rates over say the last six years. I'm sure that the nature of the candidates has not changed, if anything probably got better on average as there are now season long (paid for) training programmes targeting this course, and these have only been running a couple of years.
He has taken a lot of positives from the course though.
One of the unintended (or maybe in fact intended) consequences will be a dearth of new ISIA qualified people working towards the ISTD. I seem to remember reading that there are only 150 ISIA in BASI. I'd venture that half of those (maybe more) are no longer working towards ISTD and are content to be where they are. You only have to look at how few ISIA courses are run each year to see that for all the 1000's of BASI 2 there is only a small % who really intend to take things further.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
tough one for your lad but the L3 tech is a tough course and has always had a low pass rate but two groups with 1 out of 8 sounds very harsh... BASI used to publish pass rates for each module but stopped for some reason.. By memory i seem to recall around 50 -60 % was typical pass rate
Can i ask if your son had taken other ISIA modules? IME the part timers who take it as one of their very first modules dont tend to pass.. Lots of people take the approach of until i pass the tech no point in taking anything else and i think that skews the results downwards. I know of more than a few level 2's who got through their 200 hours and then rock straight up onto a tech course without having done any specific training or other L3 courses , a big ask for a part timer...
to be honest i have always heard that the jump from 2 to 3 is huge and the 3 to 4 isn't as big a leap. would be surprised if the bar has risen significantly but it does seem to get tougher every year... The ISTD's have to keep pulling up the drawbridge a touch higher every year, they need the preseason training work
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
skimottaret, he has Adaptive L1 as 2nd disc, Common Theory and Mountain Safety.
Would have done the Coaching by now but BASI changed the spec' and did not run any courses for several months.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rungsp, sounds like he is going about things in the right way, good luck for him next season
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have a friend doing Teach and Tech in April; will ask him to either pass things on to me or get him to reply to this thread.
The criteria is laid out pretty back-and-white in the workbook, for example the criteria for long turns is:
Perform cleanly carved (unless the task is otherwise) turns on a red piste
Influence the radius of the arc whilst still carving
Show effective posture and balance
I was reaching the required level all round by the start of the second week and am a 26 year old of average fitness and took an 8-week ISIA training course last season (but have not trained this season prior to the BASI course). Apart from the teach and second language it was my last module towards the ISIA.
I doubt that i'd have passed the course if i'd only done the 200 hours teaching and no technical training for it!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi rungsp,
Me and three mates made videos of ourselves skiing the various strands on mobile phones for a couple of weeks before the ISIA tech and it really worked. We all past. If they can all position themselves at various points down the run and then link the videos together it gives a good view of what the trainer will see. - We used Windows Movie maker (it’s free from Microsoft and it’s very easy to use) each night and then had another “go” the next day to see if we could improve.
I know that trainers have much more practice in reviewing performance and picking up specifically on things that need improvement, but just watching yourself ski is sometimes a really useful tool. Not only for assessments but also for general skiing.
Now I’m not sure about this bit (may be wrong) but I imagine that the trainer will expect a few blimps and mistakes (we all do them) but I think they will be looking to see if the overall performance is at the standard required. I have been on BASI assessments when trainers have messed up (broken skis demonstrating how a bumps run should be done, disappearing head first under the powder demonstrating how to ski steep variables, even one knocking over one of the group whilst demonstrating snow-plough) but the trainer’s “overall performance” throughout the course was, well, trainer standard. So don’t be too picky about this or that or stress too much if each frame wasn’t exactly right. Just try and decide if you feel that the video displays what is described in the workbook. Oh, on the same topic, on one course I wiped out a trainer who was videoing me . He was stood at the bottom of a bumps run, and I still past the course (mind you he was "very" small, so it was his own fault for not wearing something brighter or bringing a box to stand on ).
I have posted one of our self-done ski vids on youtube - took me ages trying to work out how to get it off the back-up stick.
3 things to bare in mind
* I work in Italy and we simply don't have the amount of moguls you will find in most French resorts, so I'm cr@p at bumps and as you can see from the vid, some of the dips on the steeper section are waist deep.
* Don't forget that this was taken on our 2nd day of training. The comments on the vid were from a trainer who was watching (he was running a non-BASI course in the same area) and asked us what we were doing. When we told him he was kind enough to give some feedback). I hope/think I picked it up over the next 2 weeks as I past.
* If I had stayed at the leval on the vid I wouldn't have past - but the main point is that doing the vid allowed me to "see" my errors instead of just being told about them, much more "take-in-able"
Not very good quality as taken on 4 different mobile phones then mixed together on Windows Movie Maker !
I know no-one likes seeing stuff of them before they learned to ski properly - but hey we all had to go through it (took me longer than most to get it though )
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
^ No trainer comments on questionable fashion sense????
After all it is free
After all it is free
fatbob wrote:
^ No trainer comments on questionable fashion sense????
A shocking insinuation .
I feel assured that if (when) BASI institutes a Fashionable Skiing Module, I will be the first on this list of members they will ask to be a trainer. In fact I am so confident in my (fore-gone) selection as BASI's fashion ambassador/trainer that I think I will start writing the new section of the manual right away. Green fishing hats will be a must, of course.
Last edited by After all it is free on Mon 2-04-12 16:04; edited 1 time in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. He was stood at the bottom of a bumps run, and I still past the course (mind you he was "very" small, so it was his own fault for not wearing something brighter or bringing a box to stand on 
).
