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Tell me some European freestyle ski manufacturers please?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
seeing as this is pretty much the only european based skiing forum I was wondering if you guys knew of any good freeski brands that are european? hate getting taxed when buying things from america along with shipping being hundreds and also I just prefer to buy locally(ish), I know of the main brands, armada etc, I'm talking of the less heard of brands like coreupt, whitedot( I know not a freestyle company but they do have the one) etc.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Duret .............. http://global.skipass.com/gearguide/ski/2012/duret/

Zag "Slap" ....... http://global.skipass.com/gearguide/zag/slap.html

Apo .......... http://global.skipass.com/gearguide/ski/2012/apo/

Majesty skis ......... http://global.skipass.com/gearguide/ski/2012/majesty/

Infact go to global.skipass' web site and trawl through the lesser known manufacturers, there's a whole zoo of real skis made by real skiers rather than the Sally/Tomic plastic-fantastic-over-priced-over-hyped-mass-produced-wannabee-skis! Toofy Grin
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
mag1882, http://exoticskis.com/exoticskis/
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yeah really hating salomon lately, and Dot., are you still going to be at the coe cup? would be great to try out those skis.
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Storm http://www.stormskis.com/
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mag1882, yeah I'm heading up on Tuesday to the Coe.
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awesome, will a debit card work for testing out skis or must it be credit?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
mag1882, Free to try skis. Just look for the Whitedot tent next the the motorhomes and caravans in the car park.
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You'll need some P-Tex!!
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Yeah I know, Dot., but I was told I would need to have a card swiped as deposit, would a debit card work?
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Check out Down skis too. And Faction.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I take it you've heard of Movement (Swiss)?
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theskibob wrote:

there's a whole zoo of real skis made by real skiers rather than the Sally/Tomic plastic-fantastic-over-priced-over-hyped-mass-produced-wannabee-skis! Toofy Grin


I'm not sure I agree with that statement. I'm usually all for niche specialist brands but, with skis in particular, I find the big brands produce some great kit at bargain prices (if you buy in the end of season sales). Atomic skis in particular are usually very keenly priced and do the business.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. I'm usually all for niche specialist brands but, with skis in particular, I find the big brands produce some great kit at bargain prices (if you buy in the end of season sales). Atomic skis in particular are usually very keenly priced and do the business.


Damn right........................... http://www.ellis-brigham.com/skis/atomic Ellis Brighams' offerings!!!

Both Sally and Atomic skis are "designed" in the Alpes, though the country of manufacture is in the small print somewhere under the artwork! Do a Google search for country of manufacture of some of our better known ski brands, you'll find them a loooooooooooooong way off from the Alps!

You've obviously got more than enough credit with Wonga if you think £500+ for Bent Chetler/Dukes "keenly priced". Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
uktrailmonster wrote:
I take it you've heard of Movement (Swiss)?


I take it you've never heard of "Chepelare"?

Info............. "...The two concerns “ATOMIC and “SALOMON” are part of the Finnish “Ammer group” company. The ski boots’ production will be moved to the SALOMON’s factory in Romania and only skies and snowboards will be producing in the Chepelare’s factory.
Last year we produced 280 000 ski boots and the last two years we have produced all the “ATOMIC” ski boots, the commercial director of the company Stefan Zgurov said. ..."

More.......... "..... The last year production’s facts are more than impressive – 240 000 alpine ski sets, 120 000 ski sticks, 30 000 snowboards and 280 000 ski boot sets. ......"

Same moulds are used for the superb "Orion" skis.......... best plastic-fantastics around! NehNeh
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
More bargain top-dollar-Tomic-plastics!

http://www.snowtraxstore.co.uk/skis/atomic

Puzzled
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think Dynastar still make skis in/near Cham, great build quality and fantastic skis.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
theskibob wrote:
The two concerns “ATOMIC and “SALOMON” are part of the Finnish “Ammer group” company.


Actually, it's Amer - and they have a lot of very well known brands across a range of sports: http://www.amersports.com/brands/

Quote:
The ski boots’ production will be moved to the SALOMON’s factory in Romania and only skies and snowboards will be producing in the Chepelare’s factory.


Skiis are safe then Happy

But moving production to low cost countries is standard in ALL industries. A factory in a low-cost country means the end product costs less and so you can afford new skis/boots more often.

If you don't like big business then I suggest you give up skiing: as if your don't use big business for your skis/boots, you most certainly will to get to your ski resort. (unless you are walking....)
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RobW wrote:
theskibob wrote:
The two concerns “ATOMIC and “SALOMON” are part of the Finnish “Ammer group” company.


Actually, it's Amer - and they have a lot of very well known brands across a range of sports: http://www.amersports.com/brands/

Quote:
The ski boots’ production will be moved to the SALOMON’s factory in Romania and only skies and snowboards will be producing in the Chepelare’s factory.


Skiis are safe then Happy

But moving production to low cost countries is standard in ALL industries. A factory in a low-cost country means the end product costs less and so you can afford new skis/boots more often.

If you don't like big business then I suggest you give up skiing: as if your don't use big business for your skis/boots, you most certainly will to get to your ski resort. (unless you are walking....)


The sp on Amer was as a result of a c/p directly. Skis are now produced in Romania where initial quality control was an issue. Bulgarian 21st Century post-communist ski moulds!

My point RobW was that there's a great deal of conning as to just exactly what you are getting from Salomon and Atomic nowadays. Not only that, but whilst the retail prices of the hardware still moves upwards the actual production costs are being slimmed down. Whilst I agree that production techniques and ski design/technology is now pretty excellent when compared to 25 years ago, the relative cost of retailed priced skis and bindings does not reflect the progress made in mass production. The prices to consumers are still excessive, overy costly, and weighted for profit. That's exactly why Salomon/Atomic/Amer are mass producing. And PLEASE don't mistake "low-cost" means more affordable, it usually means cheaper production aka greater profit. ie Cheap kit!

Many manufacturers are shipping production to the likes of here .......... http://www.snowboard-ski-sisco.com/ and are being branded as OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer)

My other point being that the lesser know ski manufacturers are raising the bar on high-spec limited edition hightech ski gear. Just start being something other than a ski-sheep!
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theskibob wrote:

My point RobW was that there's a great deal of conning as to just exactly what you are getting from Salomon and Atomic nowadays.

Is there? They are both ski brands who make good, mainstream kit. Who is being conned, and what is the con? The vast majority of skiers don't care where their kit is made, just as the vast majority of supermarket shoppers don't care where their pasta is made.

Quote:
And PLEASE don't mistake "low-cost" means more affordable, it usually means cheaper production aka greater profit. ie Cheap kit!


I work for a very big international company, and we've had to move all production to the far east to ensure that we can be competitive and still make a profit. If we don't make a profit to satisfy the shareholders, then we'll go bust: big ski companies are no different.

Quote:
My other point being that the lesser know ski manufacturers are raising the bar on high-spec limited edition hightech ski gear. Just start being something other than a ski-sheep!


The big manufacturers are not interested in niche skis. Too low a volume. And good luck to the "less known manufacturers", they fulfill that niche and well done to them. But do understand that 99.9..% of skis are sold by the majors there is no was that the bespoke manufacturers could keep up.

PS I usually ski on Icelantics....
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Oh, and I forgot, the title of this thread is "European Manufacturers".

Last time I checked, both Bulgaria and Romania are within Europe.
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Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 20-03-12 18:07; edited 1 time in total
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RobW wrote:
Oh, and I forgot, the title of this thread is "European Manufacturers".

Last time I checked, both Bulgaria and Romania are within Europe.


Also mentioned ".............. less heard brands........"
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theskibob, You obviously have some sort of issue with Salomon, Atomic and manufacturing in cheaper countries. My wife has Atomic boots (made in Bulgaria, which just happens to be her country of birth) and 2012 Atomic Century skis (£290 with bindings from Sport Conrad bought pre season). I don't see any con there and the skis and boots are both excellent. She did look at more niche brands eg. DPS, Icelantic, WhiteDot etc but just didn't seem worth paying the extra money.

I agree full retail prices are silly, but it's just supply and demand like everything else in a free market economy.

Anyway back on topic, I would have thought Movement would be a good bet for a slightly lesser known European freeski brand. Not exactly niche these days, but great quality and usually reasonable end of season pricing.
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I just think Salomon and Atomic are a tad over-priced and over-rated. Both have great race department skis, but both have rather expensive massed produced over-hyped super-flattering skis for the those masses of skiers with very little grey matter.

My issue is not about manufacturing in cheap countries! My issue is in the cheap/mass manufacture of skis that then retail way above their real worth or value.

As regards Movement, I've owned and skied on Movement Flame (2008), and Movement Thunder (2009). Both new skis, both bought out of season, both cost 60% less than MRP, both sold after 2/3 weeks ski-ing for not much less than paid for them. If you look and research the availability of skis like Movement, Icelantic (NOT European), Storm, and even Dot's Whitedots there are MUCH better skis as regards production/construction than Sally/Tomics. AND in the end if bought with a modicum of "nouse" will be substantially more cost effective than falling for a pair of wannabee plasticky fantastickys!!

If you're paying £290 for Atomic Century skis I assume that included the FFG12 binding!?!
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Bumping ............... as Ebay has Whitedot skis at £250-sh
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
theskibob, Andreas F seems quite happy with Salomon, and he is a man who needs his gear to work more than most... (http://andreasfransson.blogspot.fr/)

to the OP - Coreupt (certainly used to ) come from the Dynastar factory... big brand or boutique brand?...
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theskibob, always considered danollies but can't really demo them, Hopefully on3p will become global soon enough and I can try out the filthy riches that EVERYONE goes on about
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
mag1882 wrote:
theskibob, always considered danollies but can't really demo them, Hopefully on3p will become global soon enough and I can try out the filthy riches that EVERYONE goes on about


I lust after the Pillow Fights...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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clarky999 wrote:
mag1882 wrote:
theskibob, always considered danollies but can't really demo them, Hopefully on3p will become global soon enough and I can try out the filthy riches that EVERYONE goes on about


I lust after the Pillow Fights...


£199 for this set up is cheap as chips!! It'd cost £150 to hire Sally/Tomics in StAnton!!

*sharpens Hungarian Goose Down*
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
clarky999 wrote:
mag1882 wrote:
theskibob, always considered danollies but can't really demo them, Hopefully on3p will become global soon enough and I can try out the filthy riches that EVERYONE goes on about


I lust after the Pillow Fights...


£199 for this set up is cheap as chips!! It'd cost £150 to hire Sally/Tomics in StAnton!!

*sharpens Hungarian Goose Down*
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
theskibob wrote:
I just think Salomon and Atomic are a tad over-priced and over-rated. Both have great race department skis, but both have rather expensive massed produced over-hyped super-flattering skis for the those masses of skiers with very little grey matter.

My issue is not about manufacturing in cheap countries! My issue is in the cheap/mass manufacture of skis that then retail way above their real worth or value.

As regards Movement, I've owned and skied on Movement Flame (2008), and Movement Thunder (2009). Both new skis, both bought out of season, both cost 60% less than MRP, both sold after 2/3 weeks ski-ing for not much less than paid for them. If you look and research the availability of skis like Movement, Icelantic (NOT European), Storm, and even Dot's Whitedots there are MUCH better skis as regards production/construction than Sally/Tomics. AND in the end if bought with a modicum of "nouse" will be substantially more cost effective than falling for a pair of wannabee plasticky fantastickys!!

If you're paying £290 for Atomic Century skis I assume that included the FFG12 binding!?!


You do come across as a brand snob with the above comments. I'd say you're just as blinkered as those paying full retail for what I'm sure you would call 'punter' skis. Lots of contradiction in what you say too. If you paid 60% under retail for your Movements, what does that say about their retail price? Pretty much all skis can be found reasonably cheap at end of season - we've just bought a couple of pairs of piste skis (Volkl Fuego at £335 and Movement Le Fer at £350 both with bindings, so both approx 40% off retail). We bought the Atomic Centurys pre-season, so not the best timing from a pricing point of view, but still well below full retail. FWIW my wife prefers her plastic fantastic Atomics (complete with plastic fantastic Marker bindings) over her previous Movements, which are now about to go up for sale. The topsheets might not be as bulletproof as the Movements, but they ski really well which is what it's all about. 30 days on them so far and no quality issues.

Personally I look at the whole market for skis including both big and small brands. I'm a professional mechanical engineer too and think I have a good eye for quality and marketing BS. There is also more than enough hype surrounding many of the niche brands too. It's not just the big brands that use BS to sell skis. IMO most high level skis on the market today whether from small or large manufacturers are very good and so it's more a matter of choosing a ski to suit your personal preferences rather than worrying too much about the brand name. My wife chose the Atomic Century simply as a lightweight powder ski that would also work well on soft groomed. Also considered the various DPS Wailers (too expensive), Whitedot Director/Preacher (neither had the kind of geometry that she was looking for), Icelantic Oracle (probably too stiff for her), Movement (didn't seem to have a suitable model in their current line-up), Line (close call on the Celebrity 100) and Rossi S3 (again a close call but didn't think it would be quite as good on groomed with more pronounced rocker). The Atomic Century just looked right for her preferences and she loves skiing them. Simple as that.
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Quote:

IMO most high level skis on the market today whether from small or large manufacturers are very good and so it's more a matter of choosing a ski to suit your personal preferences rather than worrying too much about the brand name


+1

Apart from Salomon NehNeh
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clarky999 wrote:
Quote:

IMO most high level skis on the market today whether from small or large manufacturers are very good and so it's more a matter of choosing a ski to suit your personal preferences rather than worrying too much about the brand name


+1

Apart from Salomon NehNeh


Yeah I must say I'm a bit wary of Salomon skis these days, but some of their top models seem to fare pretty well in independent reviews. But for the bigger name brands I tend to favour the likes of Head who are usually pretty good on quality, although I prefer the likes of Movement, Line etc for freeride models.
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uktrailmonster wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
Quote:

IMO most high level skis on the market today whether from small or large manufacturers are very good and so it's more a matter of choosing a ski to suit your personal preferences rather than worrying too much about the brand name


+1

Apart from Salomon NehNeh


Yeah I must say I'm a bit wary of Salomon skis these days, but some of their top models seem to fare pretty well in independent reviews. But for the bigger name brands I tend to favour the likes of Head who are usually pretty good on quality, although I prefer the likes of Movement, Line etc for freeride models.


Looks like you have a slight dislike for Sally's!

(BTW ... agree with a lot of what you say ... BTW2...... Does a Physics degree out-trump your Engineering when it comes to understanding ski properties?)
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theskibob wrote:


Looks like you have a slight dislike for Sally's!

(BTW ... agree with a lot of what you say ... BTW2...... Does a Physics degree out-trump your Engineering when it comes to understanding ski properties?)


Laughing Well their boots are okay, just not that convinced about their skis but wouldn't rule them out completely. I took an interest in their 24 hours piste skis recently, which seem to be fairly well received.
Physics is theoretical, engineering involves turning that theory into something real - in this case a pair of plastic fantastic skis. Imagine life without plastic today?
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uktrailmonster wrote:
theskibob wrote:


Looks like you have a slight dislike for Sally's!

(BTW ... agree with a lot of what you say ... BTW2...... Does a Physics degree out-trump your Engineering when it comes to understanding ski properties?)


Laughing Well their boots are okay, just not that convinced about their skis but wouldn't rule them out completely. I took an interest in their 24 hours piste skis recently, which seem to be fairly well received.
Physics is theoretical, engineering involves turning that theory into something real - in this case a pair of plastic fantastic skis. Imagine life without plastic today?


I'd use Kevlar, Carbon fibre, Titanal alloys, Magnesium, Triaxial (Because I know why) Fibre glass, Poplar, Beech, Okume, Bamboo, and a few other bits and pieces. I'd still use humans to glue it all together, and never use foam-filled plastic mono-cockies. (Only because I still regard the 9000 Equipe 2S as a quantum leap in ski design/technology).............. Oh poo-poo, ......... same with the Dynastar Dynasty Airflow!!

Back on the thread ......................... depending on budget had you ever thought about Lagriffe?
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theskibob wrote:
and never use foam-filled plastic mono-cockies


Does anyone on top end skis these days?
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theskibob wrote:


Back on the thread ......................... depending on budget had you ever thought about Lagriffe?


How much wonga for these then? I see that their front page marketing is focused on supplying custom made skis to the Russian President. I'm sure he'd be just fine rocking a pair of Bent Chetlers.
Looks like those topsheets were designed for the East European market too. Walnut effect inserts FFS! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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uktrailmonster wrote:
theskibob wrote:


Back on the thread ......................... depending on budget had you ever thought about Lagriffe?


How much wonga for these then? I see that their front page marketing is focused on supplying custom made skis to the Russian President. I'm sure he'd be just fine rocking a pair of Bent Chetlers.
Looks like those topsheets were designed for the East European market too. Walnut effect inserts FFS! Laughing Laughing Laughing


I got the ones with the Rosewood (Pallisander) inserts. Lovely craftmanship, wonderful feel to the ride, damn decent as a piste ski in just about all conditions. Whatever you do ....... DON'T ask how much!
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