My lovely friends in Geneva have said that the snow close to Geneva aint up to much, so next Friday afternoon they are taking me cross-country skiing Firday afternoon.
(We are heading off to Verbier on the Sat and Sun for some gravity-induced proper skiing however)
What do i have in store ? Presumably laying collapsed on my side trying to breathe after 10 minutes ?
Do i wear my normal thermals and salopettes/pants or will i sweat like in a sauna ?
Will i be able to ski the day after ?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
sev112, If you have some lighter gear, that would be good. Think what you would wear if going out for a jog in the weather on the day, with a jacket of some sort to put on when you stop. Have water handy. If you are anything like me you will find the technique/balance more of a challenge than the cardio. Uphill is tiring but downhill is scary!
Don't have too long skis - if you are between sizes, go down. Keep your weight really well forward. Don't use your poles to stop you. -)
Yes, you will be able to ski the day after and you will enjoy the sensation of being in control.
Please tell us how it goes!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks Pam - appreciate the hints
I'm looking forward to it - my local friends say where they are taking me is beautiful
Some of my family live in Norway so I have to go through this each time I visit in the winter as they always want to do a day or so if X-country!
You will be fine - like Pam says you don't need a load of thermal gear as you will over heat v quickly. I just had a t-shirt and shell jacket and ski pants. Also can use smaller/thinner gloves if you have some.
Downhill can be interesting but you can bust out a snow plough fairly easily to control you speed if needed and def lean forwards. Also once you get the hang of it, skating is a good technique to learn
Good luck, its not bad once you get the hang of it
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
my local friends say where they are taking me is beautiful
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
you can bust out a snow plough fairly easily to control you speed if needed
Garethb82, I want some of what you're smoking! Busting out a snowplough on XC gear is one of the most terrifying experiences possible
Don't get me wrong, I love the cross-country but, damn the downhill is hard.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Ok then pics next week
Just thinking whether my golf waterproof bottoms might be better than my trespass ski pants
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sev112 wrote:
Ok then pics next week
And we're not talking pics of the scenery either. Bonus points for pics of you face down with your XC skis all tangled up
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ap96,
Don't get me wrong, I only X-country ski one or two days per year and so def no expert, but I find some snow ploughing on the steeper bits keeps me more in control (almost )
Best thing for me is the scenery, lots of lovely pine forests in Norway
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
That doesn't seem to make sense? Why is going downhill problematic? (Excuse probably embarrassing ignorance)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
patricksh, skis&bindings much narrower than your feet, probably no metal edges (=no edges at all=tricky to turn)
lungbusting fun, I like a langlauf before work around the forest in the week (not many opportunities this season sadly)
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 11-03-12 22:59; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Joining the uphill brigade then ... splitter!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It's cool! Hard work but great fun when you pick up some speed on the flats and hit a rythm.
As barry says, the skis are narrow with no edges, so not that easy to control, steer or stop.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
the skis are narrow with no edges, so not that easy to control, steer or stop
and you are attached to them only with a teeny bar at your toe, and with much more flexible slipper-like boots. Not like alpine touring skis where you can clip your heels down for the downhill sections and the boots are much more akin to downhill boots. The technical skills required to control speed and direction down anything other than a very gentle slope are quite tricky to learn - I have done a few weeks, including lessons, and am still pretty hopeless. I found snowboarding a lot easier to learn - damn great wide board with metal edges!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Fantastic. Always wanted to have a go, never have.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w, "step-turns" are super hard to "click", but the satisfaction when you start to get it is as much or more as i've ever had with skiing! Currently working on a tele-style turn (on the basis that I can tele, but you wouldnt think it when you see me try it on my skinnies ). The biathalon athletes get a whole new level of respect after you've given XC a try, cant imagine trying to control breathing/hr etc to that level to shoot at something.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yeah the biathletes are super hard core. But they tend not to go as far as the XC racers.
My cousin just did Vasaloppet, he is gutted as he was beaten by Pippa who is not only female but also English! When she said she had only been on cross country skis for two training sessions I struggle to believe her. Either way she did very well, beating my cousin by nearly three hours and he is Swedish and goes skiing every year!! Obviously just lazy!
"step-turns" are super hard to "click", but the satisfaction when you start to get it is as much or more as i've ever had with skiing!
I did just begin to get the feel of those, once or twice - after the instructor had given us some very good exercises "stepping" in and out of the traces, and round some very gentle slalom cones. When you really get your weight up and over that front foot, and keep the front foot close to the back foot (crossing the ski at the back), it begins to feel feasible. I was quite encouraged - my mistake before was to get the turning foot too far ahead, so that transferring the weight required much too much commitment for my level of skill. I now also feel a lot of respect for people in skinny XC skis we see sometimes on the gentler downhill runs - they are seriously good. I had a lovely few hours in early February watching kids racing, in a "Savoie" competition. Some were as young as 6 and 7 - and ALL made me feel very inadequate.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
barry, I would love to be able to tele-turn on XC gear but as far as I'm concerned that's just black magic: This guy must be a witch, burn him! :
Going to Norway next week and getting my first actual XC lesson. I've done several days XC in Norway, Scotland, and even Manchester but still not really got the hang of anything except the diagonal stride.
sev112, Luminous lycra gear is the only thing to wear, why else would anyone want to do it otherwise?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ap96, the ESF instructor I had a week of lessons with in February did one telemark turn - he could no doubt have done a lot more but wasn't into showing off (he did it because I asked him to!). He was an older guy with a huge beard and - in a cold week - a big fox hat. Old man of the mountain.
After all it is free
After all it is free
sev112 wrote:
What do i have in store ? Presumably laying collapsed on my side trying to breathe after 10 minutes ?
That's a rite of passage! If you ever watch Olympic x-c skiing, you would have noticed that happened at the end of a lot of the races! So if you're not collapsing, it's only because you haven't gone hard enough.
The other side of the coin is, you don't have to exhaust yourself. Slow down and take some photos! (you can use that as an excuse too)
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Do i wear my normal thermals and salopettes/pants or will i sweat like in a sauna ?
Base layer: as light as possible. If you have a long sleeve cycling jersey, wear that. Same for bottom, as light as possible. And both top and bottom base layer should be breathable, VERY BREATHABLE. And preferably sweat wicking against getting soak in your own sweat.
Outer layer: thin, wind-proof jacket and waterproof pants.
If it's wicked cold, add a sweater between the inner and outer. But unless it's -20, you probably don't need it.
Gloves: thin and wind proof is the requirement. Get as close to that as you can but no need to break the bank to buy new ones. If it's too warm, it's too warm. It's not going to bother you like a too warm jacket.
Hat: No helmet! (if that's not obvious). On a warm day, you may even find a hat too hot. A headband would be helpful in that case to keep the ear warm. I usually start with a hat and within 10-15 minutes switch to ear muff.
Basically, you want to keep out the wind and water but not trap any water (sweat) in. You'll generate enough warmth so you won't need insulation.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ap96 wrote:
Quote:
you can bust out a snow plough fairly easily to control you speed if needed
Garethb82, I want some of what you're smoking! Busting out a snowplough on XC gear is one of the most terrifying experiences possible
Don't get me wrong, I love the cross-country but, damn the downhill is hard.
If you're a good alpine skier, transitioning to x-c is easier. Many "intermediate" alpine skiers find x-c skiing hard partly because they don't quite have the right technique yet even for downhill skiing. All your alpine technique flaws associated with improper weight distribution will show up glaringly on unforgiving x-c skis!
(I started out x-c ski first but wasn't much good for quite a long time. As I learn proper technique on alpine skiing, I found my x-c skiing improves leaps and bounce!)
- If you're leaning on your boot cuff for balance instead of an active balance, you'll find you don't have a high cuff to rely on with x-c gear.
- If you're sitting on the heel on your alpine boot, well, you'll find the x-c boot heels are not even connected to the skis! So you can't just push the heel out like you do with alpine bindings. Never mind you really shouldn't turn by pushing the heel out even on alpine gear!
- With x-c skiing, you spend 90% of the time on one foot or the other and only 10% when both feet are on the ground (and weighted), unlike alpine skiing where both feet are in contact with snow most of the time, which a lot of skiers are actually relying on as balance aid. If you can't remain balance while gliding on one single ski for more than a couple seconds, you end up "shuffling" instead of gliding gracefully.
- x-c foot work has a lot more foot & ankle rather than knee. If you have a properly fitted alpine boots, you might already know how to use foot and ankle to maneuver the ski. That will make the transition a little easier.
Weigh forward and light on your feet, you'll find you have a lot more downhill control.
parallel turn (in track): tuck, with your poles under your arm and push your hands forward in front of your face (high and forward). Tip the ski and trust it'll come round! It's the most fun part of x-c downhill!
half snowplough: 1 ski in track, 1 outside in a snowplough. You need to put weight on the "plough" ski for it to be effective. (duh!)
full snowplough: both skis outside the track. Just like alpine, just don't push your heel out. Tip the ski by tipping your feet. Works better if you "close" your ankle (which naturally pull your hip forward).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
[quote="abc"]
sev112 wrote:
Quote:
Do i wear my normal thermals and salopettes/pants or will i sweat like in a sauna ?
Base layer: as light as possible. If you have a long sleeve cycling jersey, wear that. Same for bottom, as light as possible. And both top and bottom base layer should be breathable, VERY BREATHABLE. And preferably sweat wicking against getting soak in your own sweat.
Outer layer: thin, wind-proof jacket and waterproof pants.
If it's wicked cold, add a sweater between the inner and outer. But unless it's -20, you probably don't need it.
Gloves: thin and wind proof is the requirement. Get as close to that as you can but no need to break the bank to buy new ones. If it's too warm, it's too warm. It's not going to bother you like a too warm jacket.
Hat: No helmet! (if that's not obvious). On a warm day, you may even find a hat too hot. A headband would be helpful in that case to keep the ear warm. I usually start with a hat and within 10-15 minutes switch to ear muff.
Basically, you want to keep out the wind and water but not trap any water (sweat) in. You'll generate enough warmth so you won't need insulation.
Blimey - I'll need to get down to decathlon - more gear needed than "Normal" skiing
I'm seriously looking forward to this - the working out what clothes i've got in the wardrobe that i can use - the waterproof trousers might prove difficult, so i may have to get my golf waterproofs out !!!
better charge the camera up bearing in mind the amount of times i'll be on my face or backside
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Tarquin wrote:
Fantastic. Always wanted to have a go, never have.
same here - there's a track outside my front door in Flachau
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
waterproof trousers might prove difficult,
unless it's precipitating I wouldn't have thought you need waterproof trousers. You might get a bit damp when you fall over but you'll soon be on your feet again and it'll keep you cool. Most of the people who whizzed past me when I was doing it were just wearing Lycra (or some kind of very thin stuff which showed their fantastic glutes off to perfection) and it was minus 20 at the time.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
You don't need much clothing. Unless it's very cold think lycra. Something like Ronhills for the bottom and a baselayer + windproof fleece is all you'll need. Think simmilar exertion levels to running but able to get a bit more speed up and your on the right lines.
While everything abc says about technique makes sense I found (and still do find) the transition to skinny Nordic skis terrifying in anything other than perfect conditions. To be fair I am probably an intermediate on alpine skis so perhaps not surprising....
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
sev112 wrote:
better charge the camera up bearing in mind the amount of times i'll be on my face or backside
Another eye opener watch Olympic x-c skiing is how often these world class x-c skiers got themselves tangled up in their own skis during the race! Not so much on scary downhills (which doesn't seem to bring too many falls), but on flats when they're supposed to be "just skiing"! (ok, trying to ski as fast as possible)
So us not so world class x-c skiers should feel perfectly normal to be falling once in a short while doing nothing special!
pam w wrote:
Quote:
waterproof trousers might prove difficult,
Most of the people who whizzed past me when I was doing it were just wearing Lycra (or some kind of very thin stuff which showed their fantastic glutes off to perfection) and it was minus 20 at the time.
It really depends on how much sev112 end up falling and what the snow will be like. You've been skiing a fair while, so you probably only falls occasionally. For that, waterproof pants isn't too relevant.
It's not exactly a need. You won't die from the wet. But it's really big nice-to-have. If the snow is soft, or worse, a bit wet, repeated falls will soak through the bottom pretty quickly. Rather an unpleasent feel to have wet bottoms, especially when you walk into a nice warm trail side restaruant for lunch and sat down on your wet butt.
sev112, if you don't have waterproof pants, wear something that dry very quickly. Lycra is good in that regard. Keeping dry entirely would be ideal. But short of that, at least don't stay wet for the rest of the day.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Unfortunately photos of the 3 wipe outs were not forthcoming, but here's the proof that i went "skinny skiing" - i'm the one on the left
- i think i quite liked the borrowed lycra - i can see a trip to Decathlon coming on
The x-country was seriously addictive - we did 9km on Green and Blue runs over a couple of hours in beautiful sunshine !
Did very well on the downhill greens but the blue downhill was a bit of entertainment - i frightened the life out of a couple of geriatric skiers and ended up in a mound of snow at the bottom of the slope. They stayed out of my way as much as possible after that
Seriously though - brilliant fun, and i can see myself doing this in afternoons of future normal family trips .
Alongwith the facial growth of a few weeks, my local friends have taken to calling me "Sven" and have been loking for a rifle to take with me next time out !
Admin - how do i change my username from sev112 to sven112 ?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
sev112,
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
OK, so I just had 3 days of cross-country:
day#1: lesson at Trysil, followed by a few km loop back to our hut. Achievements: zero falls, 1 successful full snowplough, countless successfull half-ploughs. A great day on the mountain.
day#2: by the lake at Slettedalen. Achievements: over-waxing my skis, zero successful snowploughs, 1 nasty fall resulting in swollen ankle and stiff back. Technically awful day's skiing, saved by brilliant weather and good company.
day#3: Gullingen (on the way back from Røldal since it was shut due to howling gales). Achievements: too many to count, including snowploughs a-plenty, including on unprepared snow, and plenty of straightlining it down the cut tracks. Langrenn nirvana.
The big difference between the crappy day and the good day was definitely the condition of the tracks, in my opinion. day #1 = immaculately cut track with perfect groomed corduroy in between. Day #3 = perfectly cut tracks in slush. Day #2 = icy tracks, no properly cut tracks left, steep drop offs to either side of the track in many places, some downhill gradients were properly steep.
Anyway, I now retract my previous statement - doing a snowplough on XC skis is *not* too terrifying if the track conditions are good! Telemark turns on them are still magic though
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Glad you had a great time
I cannot wait until next years's family "normal" skiing trip to see if i can get the rest of the family into the habit
sev112, If you're serious about the name change, you need to pm an admin - either the real one or Tall Tone etc and they'll do it for you. sven112 does have a certain ring to it..
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Glad to see another convert ! First time I did x-c was in Lake Louise more than 15 years ago when I sustained an injury that meant I couldn't fit an alpine boot on but could use x-c boots. I felt like a fish out of water for a few days as I got used to the skinny skis. Hills I'd happily have skied down backwards in alpine gear became daunting nightmares but I eventually got he hang of it. Then I didn't do any until about 6 years ago and we've done one week a year since. Now my wife prefers it to alpine skiing. Had a fab week in northern Finland (Yllasjarvi) this year which I'd highly recommend as a destination. Hundreds of km of tracks. There's also lots of other things to do if you fancy a day off and there was the bonus of several nights of tremendous aurora displays although it was fairly cold.
Having said all that, unlike my wife, alpine is still my first love so we tend to have 2 alpine trips and one x-c trip. Our last trip of this season starts tomorrow in Val d'Isere. Getting excited now (and have already booked Zermatt for December) !!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
). The biathalon athletes get a whole new level of respect after you've given XC a try, cant imagine trying to control breathing/hr etc to that level to shoot at something.
