 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
how about wing mirrors on helmets?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| zellmaniac wrote: |
| how about wing mirrors on helmets? |
.... and indicators, and brake lights, and ........
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Interesting... You seem to be saying that a helmet and goggles make you less aware of your envirornment
On the motorbike I wear a full face helmet and earplugs. On the snowboard I wear a lightweight helmet and goggles. Would you bet that I'm more or less aware of my environment on the bike than when I'm a snowboarder wearing helmet and goggles?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Tapstick, Do you have mirrors on your bike and indicators and do you use them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Cynic wrote: |
"Everyone should appreciate you can't see out of the back of your own head"
I was conducting some research on the use of helmets and whether the users ever looked behind on one particular piste known for its collisions, in comparison with those that were without. 100% of helmet wearers did not look behind or at their periphery during their descent at all i.e. obviously turned their head out of direction of travel, 60% of none helmet wearers looked behind or beyond their shoulder line in the same descent. I only monitored for 30 minutes, but a change to helmet and goggles emphasised to me the total feeling of containment, this I believe to be the cause of many collisions the total lack of spatial awareness of modern skiing, one cannot drive like it on a crowded fast motorway so how can you expect to avoid collisions on a fast crowded piste |
This is about the the most tenuous piece of anti-helmet evidence I have ever seen. Maybe the correlation is that divs wear helmets rather than that helmets cause reduced spatial awareness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The comment about skiers sking back up t ehill into teh boarders is quite funny - this is just a trick of the camera. The very slow lady skeir in teh blue was in no way at fault as you can see here skiing all teh way through teh clip in consistent slow turns - the boarder should have been NOWHERE NEAR her
Interesting about not stopping in the middle - i tend to find teh lunatic (sorry, fast very skilled) skiers are at the edges of the piste, because the better snow is often there rather than in the chopped up middle. I have seen a lot more dangerous collisions at the side, because those "super skilled" skiers have nowhere to go when someone reasonably stops where they are supposed to
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't believe a helmet makes any difference to my spatial awareness (but I must admit that I don't wear one that often), and I certainly do look uphill regardless of wearing one or not. I do think that goggles have a real impact though. Perhaps it's the higher likelyhood that helmet wearers are also be-goggled that is the real problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Interesting... You seem to be saying that a helmet and goggles make you less aware of your envirornment
I certaily find this to be true
On the motorbike I wear a full face helmet and earplugs. On the snowboard I wear a lightweight helmet and goggles. Would you bet that I'm more or less aware of my environment on the bike than when I'm a snowboarder wearing helmet and goggles?
|
motorcycling and skiing/boarding cannot be compared in this way, on the piste you have others coming at you from all angles all of the time, the road is actually (outside London at least!!!) a very much more orderly place. On my bike, the bike itself is making enough noise of it's own to drown out other vehicles so it makes little difference how much I can hear what's going on around me, but on skis I use my hearing all the time to monitor the "Incoming" and anything that attenuates my hearing on skis, increases my chance of a collision.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
just for detail freaks - downhiller striking official:
A similar accident occurred during a downhill training run in 1996 at the world ski championships in Sierra Nevada, Spain, when the Russian skier Tatiana Lebedeva crashed into Harald Schoenhaar, a German official with the International Ski Federation. Both Lebedeva and Schoenhaar suffered broken legs in the collision, and Lebedeva's injury ended her competitive career.
see
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/01/sports/01iht-ski_ed3_.html
The official was a personal trainer of various downhillers and worked for Marker - his radio apparently was defective and he moved onto the course at a time that he thought was between runs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I'll put in my two cents worth - am currently in Val d'Isere, laid up with my arm in a sling, having been run into by a snowboarder yesterday. I looked all around me before turning, and he literally appeared out of nowhere, completely out of control and careered into the back of me. Now have v painful shoulder injury (on a shoulder that has already had surgery in the last 6 months  ) and a bad back - heading back to the UK early as want to get it all checked out with my own physio etc. but has definitely made me think twice about a few things. Firstly, about the time of day I ski (it was very busy on the slopes) and I also think I'll wear a helmet in the future, as that snowboard could have hit my head, rather than my shoulder... very disappointing as this is my first time skiing for some years and I've only had 3 days worth before being laid up!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
VD12, very sorry to hear about your accident. I wish you a speedy recovery.
In my humble opinion, skiers and snowboarders are no longer being educated about the basic rules and respect for other people. It seems to be a sad reflection of the world we live in these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
VD12 SO sorry to hear that. Could I ask some more details... like which run, what time of the day etc.
Collisions do happen but when it stuffs your hol up it really sucks.
I am sure you have already been to see Doc Al but either way I know of a VERY good english physio here in Val that I can recommend if you would like?
In my 400 weeks of skiing and some 18 seasons worth of teaching I think I have only been properly taken out (occasional coming together at slow speed (usually with clients if at all) twice... maybe I have an invisible radar deflector or something. There have been times I have had to take evasive action.
Picking up on Walter-Spitty comment... IMO I think modern equipment makes it too easy for some people to get to a level whereby they think they are damn good but in reality they lack huge amounts of skill. People spend less time in lessons and the desire to 'get going and onto a black run asap' makes many people skip through SO much of the learning curve that as instructors we have less contact time to educate some of the rules of the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the good wishes guys and for the tips Steve - I'm actually already on my way back to UK, and seeing my physio first thing tomorrow. Did get the number of the physio in Val, but figured that given the surgery I'd had recently, it was best to go back and maybe have an MRI etc...shoulder bit better today, but still not up to weight-bearing etc, just got to keep my fingers crossed that it's not too serious...
The collision happened just at the bottom of the Verte run at lunchtime, between the Marmottes restaurant and chairlift - it gets quite congested around there it seems, where lots of runs run into each, before the steep bit down to the Folie Douce. I think the snowboarder who hit me was trying to turn to go to the restaurant and just didn't realise how quickly he was going - he actually looked pretty terrified, so I think he was probably out of control! V.disappointing as was having a lovely gentle run down in the sunshine - though I have to say that I was quite surprised at the number of people going very fast (some even racing each other!) in the 'zone tranquille' at the top of Verte - not very fair on beginners or people like myself who haven't skied for a while...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Steve Angus, you make an interesting point there regarding modern equipment and having "less contact time to educate some of the rules of the mountain".
VD12, you are right about people going too fast in inappropriate locations. I guess we are all guilty of it from time to time. If I'm going to overtake a much slower, less confident skier, whenever possible I move to the edge of the piste and give them plenty of room in case they make an unexpected change of direction.
In the last few years I've noticed many seemingly advanced skiers (who should know better) practically rubbing shoulders at speed with much slower or less skilled skiers. There just seems to be a lot more dangerous and selfish behaviour going on now, compared to when I learned to ski in the 80s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Elston, too right, these vids are not nice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
oh dear what a sobering thread.
Last year I had a little tumble in Les Arcs, telemarking reasonably quickly, when I went over a little drop - which I hadn't seen at all and which wasn't marked. I fell in a big heap- sprained my thumb, twisted my knee (the thumb hurt for 3-4 months and I thought I might have fractured my scaphoid- but didn't want the fuss of going to hospital).
But...another skier was right behind me and would have absolutely mashed into me had he not fallen himself- very quickly and courteously- we would have both had a terrible day had he piled in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
One of the most painful injuries I have ever had was a broken thumb.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Cynic, Did you check out use of iphone/gizmo earphones and related 'impact' of such additional bubble enhancing/awareness detracting gear at same time?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Walter-Spitty wrote: |
| .. There just seems to be a lot more dangerous and selfish behaviour going on now, compared to when I learned to ski in the 80s. |
I think so, too - I see similar behaviour on our roads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
achilles, I agree with you about the roads.
I think the stupidity level of the average person has increased over the last couple of decades. I blame politicians and their paymasters (and spit upon them all  ).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| achilles wrote: |
| Walter-Spitty wrote: |
| .. There just seems to be a lot more dangerous and selfish behaviour going on now, compared to when I learned to ski in the 80s. |
I think so, too - I see similar behaviour on our roads. |
I think that's what you tend to get with increasing traffic. One of the main reasons I tend to avoid the mega-resorts today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Some collisions are just really unfortunate and come into $h!t happens category like two people perfectly level turning into each other.
The biggest cause of accidents I can see are from the variation in line. Most intermediate and above skiers will ski an angle to the fall line where they can see what is coming ahead but some beginners can often be traversing at an angle almost 90 degrees across (and often over the entire slope for some reason); seeing these skiers coming at you sideways from barely the edge of peripheral vision is almost impossible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
