Taking lessons, or rather not taking lessons.

A snowHead

Being a peasant skier whose wallet does not match my love of skiing, I spent most of my skiing in Soldeu Andorra, where, in the 1980s/early 90s the lift system was quite poor, the cost of lessons was half the price of ESF and instructors spoke english as a mother tongue, we always did ski school for the week where I learned to carve skis long before "carvers" were thought of and many other skills that have contributed to the level 10 skier that I am now. We saw ski School as an essential social part of the holiday.
When my daughter went in ESF she was the only English girl there and hated the isolation, she had to rely on one of the French girls that could speak English to translate the instructor.
This year I had ski lessons for the first time in about 12 years when I had 2 weeks with UCPA in Val D'Isere (experts) and Val Thorens (offpiste). For both weeks, the instructor was a 20 something nutter that could ski like they were born wearing skis

A snowHead

IMO almost everyone would benefit from the occasional private lesson or, if you're starting out, group lessons. It's easy to settle at a plateau and never improve but I find myself still improving after 27years' skiing with the help of the odd lesson.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The OP is right to worry that the others aren't safe piste users: absolutely that is a problem if they are regularly endangering others. But I think once they've fulfilled their responsibility of being in control and skiing safely, that's where the worrying needs to stop.

The base reason for doing any of this is fun. And while I'm sympathetic to the idea that lessons = better skiing = more fun, I think anyone would be way out of order if they moaned at their skiing friends for not being ambitious enough. If they're having fun and not being dangerous, what business is it of anyone's to make them improve? Arrange a meeting point, go off and ski yourselves for a bit and come back to meet them later, possibly even just for dinner. No problem, surely?

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Lots of interesting comments here. I started to ski 5 years ago, and knew instantly from the word go that I'd be isolated from my wife and friends for a couple of years as I picked up the pace and technique necessary. They always wanted to ski at the end of the day with me, but I desisted, perhaps out of a little self consciousness that I was not yet ready to ski with them. Having endured some terrible group lessons ( and some good ones), I picked up enough to manage blues ok, but it was when I had private lessons in Italy over 2 years ago that things fell into place.

Things are all in the head, and good instruction is always worth its price in, well...whatever is precious to you. As regards responsibility, well, I figure it's about personal responsibitity. If you can afford to spend so much on a short trip ( let's face it, skiing is not low cost by any means), then you should feel the need to better yourself, to justify the expense, and also to enjoy the experience. I can't tell you how painful it was at the end of early beginnings in the thighs and, well...everywhere across the body. Good technique makes the whole thing fluid, easy, effortless, painless (-ish) and gives you a sense that you can actually explore a region and experience the beauty around you.

I haven't taken lessons for a year, but am planning to do so this summer/ autumn. Am heading to Mayrhofen soon and just want to cruise runs with some friends. It's a short break. I know I'll be learning more to develop myself later. I do accept that not everyone feels/ thinks this way, but I would not berate anyone for not taking lessons. I'd just be a little puzzled.

cran

I get a 1 or 2 hour one-one lesson every couple of weeks.

I don't see the point of having a whole day (or even half a day) unless it's touring/guiding or similar, as they will assess you in 5-10 mins and tell/show you what you need to do in the next 30 mins and then you can go and work on it on your own.

A lot of it is just practice and putting the hours in, but it's better to be practising the right things, and I think some lessons to stop you getting in to bad habits and teach you good ones are very useful.

a couple of hours of lessons at the start of a weeks ski holiday is not expensive, and should make the rest of the week more productive and enjoyable imo.

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I made the mistake of leaving my lessons on about my second day of skiing, it had clicked for me and a mate and we got tired waiting at the bottom of the slope for everyone else to inch through turns. I think in effect it set my skiing back about four years because I just learned on my own and it takes a long time to unlearn the bad habits I got into as a result. Skiing is quite counter intuitive and if left to your own devices you will find a way to get down the slope but it won't be the best way, and even if you do unlearn your habits you will revert to them when under pressure on steep slopes / off piste.

Ironically what got me skiing better was going away with a group of beginners in a bad snow year. There was no point in going off piste so I just skied the pistes and because they were taking it handy, so did I and I started paying more attention to my technique. Previously I had been killing myself and pushing my body and abilities to the max but when I slowed down a bit my skiing markedly improved.

I still ski with the same lads and I try to impress on them the importance of getting lessons but they have the same attitude I had - they only get to ski maybe 6 or 8 days a year, its expensive enough as it is and they don't want to waste time getting lessons. They just either don't see or don't care about the benefits, which are immense - skiing well is ecstatic!

I have to say that my experience of getting lessons has also been pretty poor, which disinclined me to bother. In groups they don't seem to care, and different private instructors have told me conflicting things which is quite frustrating. I also feel I am a bad student - I need to learn myself rather than be taught. The language barrier is also a problem as some of the descriptions of moves, particularly off piste, are quite subtle and beyond my french / their English.

And for anyone else in the same boat I couldn't recommend a book called 'The All Mountain Skiier' more - the author explains technique in detail and also explains why and how the technique works, which is almost as important as you try to rationalise things. This book has MASSIVELY improved my skiing technique and costs the same as about ten minutes of private lessons.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I have that book too, it is excellent.
One thing I have come to understand is there are many different ways to ski. Maybe some instructors only know how to teach one style. But everyone has their own style, and with practice you will find it. Do you bend your knees or stand tall? Skis close together or apart? Do you let your INSIDE ski take the pressure at the point of maximum turning in a high speed carve? Reading that book was great for my understanding re lots of these

After all it is free

8611, patricksh, if you found The All Mountain Skier useful you might also get a lot from Ron LeMaster's Ultimate Skiing. I think it's better than Elling's book.

Thanks Rob will do, still have to get through some bits of ellings, and reread it then - I'm such a nerd I actually take it to breakfast in resort and sometimes take it out in the gondola too. A LOT of skiing on my own Very Happy

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Just because you can get down a piste- doesn't mean you are a good/safe/capable skier or boarder.
There seems to be a piste colour obsession coupled with the assumption that going down reds at the end of week one means you're awesome. People need lessons.

snow reports

Second Rob's recommendation for Ron LeMaster. The guy is a genius who can write things down (and illustrate them) in a way that has you smacking your head on the table as it's now so obvious (but before that was clear as mud).

As to others not getting lessons: a little empathy and tolerance on both sides would go a long way. Not everyone takes a skiing holiday with the primary goal of skiing, and not everyone who can ski is particularly bothered about doing it better. I know it seems daft to us snowheads, but for some the mountains, scenery, a bit of exercise, and a nice long lunch in the sunshine is what it's all about. Sure they would probably find it easier and more enjoyable with a couple of lessons, but if they choose not to it's not a problem.

If you're skiing with a group there will always be a spread of abilities. If you're at the top of the group, go off and have a whizz round by yourself and meet the rest of them later; or if you're enjoying a run tell them that you'll ski down, get the lift up, and catch them up again before they get to the bottom. Or pick a place to meet that has a few different ways to get there so everyone can choose the way to go. If you're getting bored on an easy piste while skiing with the beginners go back to basics and work on your own technique doing some exercises that you picked up from your last lesson.

If you're skiing with people better than you, then don't be offended if they want to blast a run or try something difficult. Enjoy the opportunity to take things easy and go at your own pace.

Ultimately, try not to put the other people off. In a few years they will have improved (lessons or not - mostly it's about practice) and you'll be grateful for someone else to ski with.

Disclaimer: I'm an instructor, so all in favour of people having lessons, but can understand that not everyone wants or needs them.

You know it makes sense.

Spannah, he definitely sounds like a category 2 type to me. Laughing

Just don't go with him/them again. Even if they are the only folk you know who ski at all, you'd be better off coming on a snowHead

's bash and getting completely trashed, er I mean having a great skiing time, with all these internet weirdos. Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

I'm about to embark on my first snowHead

bash at the end of April, and one of the things I'm looking forward to, is skiing with those who are at a slightly more advanced level than me. I skied for the very first time in 2008 so have 4 years (7 trips) experience behind me. I have definitely developed faster (and in some cases overtaken) than my usual ski buddies, who, for the most part have been skiing a lot longer than myself. This I put down totally to having lessons on over half of my trips so far. Some of the blokes I go skiing with just don't want to be seen 'to be having lessons' for reasons usually centred around bravado, but more fool them. There is a definite advantage to having skiers around you who have the 'right' basic habits drilled into them, or are more experienced and patient. I think you have to be a bit selfish and do what's best for you personally. After all, you've spent your 'hard earned' to get there, so you should maximise the opportunity to progress. If that means skiing with strangers (at least that's what they'll be to start with) for some of the time, rather than being with your own group of mates you travelled with, then so be it - there's always the apres ski bit to catch up on the day's events.

A snowHead

I can remember my second week on skis. I genuinely thought I was in control. I definitely wasn't though.

I reckon beginners who don't take lessons and are not in proper control need to be told. Listen - you are learning fast but you are a danger to other people, get some more lessons and you'll be better and have more fun.

BTW I think a few private lessons are better than a week of ski school.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Taking lessons, or rather not taking lessons.

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