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skiboard/snowblade question...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm a solid intermediate skier and have salomon tornadoes. I love them! I just can't seem to get to the next level so I decided to go the 'radical' route and try some skiblades...they were recommended to me by several people.

So, I got the Head Salamanders...I've read all I could on them and have watched several videos on skiblade use/function vs. skis..

Does anyone here have some good advice/guidance as I'll be trying them out soon.

Thank you...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
headless, welcome to snowHeads.

Why do you think buying a different type of ski will take your ski ability to the next level. What will you do differently on short skis that you can't do on your Tornadoes?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A brave first post

I advise a quick use of the search function will indicate the sort of response you will be receiving soon regarding blades. I hope you're wearing a good helmet, but then that's a whole other hundred or so other threads.
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Snowblades aren't normally associated with a higher level of skiing...

Perhaps lessons from a good instructor would be the best way to progress?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
headless, if you want to develop your advance crouch position, and the ability to stop dead on anything other than perfectly groomed piste, and you're worried that you don't quite look enough of a d!ckhead and need to up your game, then blades will be perfect for you.

Whitters, how's that as a starter for 10?
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Rob...I was told that blades are a good way to work on carving...I do tend to sit back on the skis on the double blues/blacks...and this makes me an inefficient/poor form skier...on 'lesser' terrain, I'm fine...

Whitters...I have a great Giro helmet...no issues there...I don't ski off piste, so hopefully I'll be safer in blades, not more dangerous...

Bob...many reviewers have said that blades are easier to control, so more difficult terrain becomes easier to handle...I can see this, esp. with moguls. I'm a bigger guy...not 'heavy', but muscular, and I'm not as lithe as let's say my wife, who is an expert skier and is small framed...

Dr. John...I know skiers don't like the bladers...and think they look absolutely stupid...I'm not worried about that. I'm not an 18-25 year old brat...I'm older and am settled in my life...no issues...and anyone who knows me already knows that I'm a d!ickhead! Very Happy


I'm interested if anyone has experience and can advise from day 1 how I will be handling these as opposed to the tornadoes...BTW, I will have both with me....
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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headless wrote:
Rob...I was told that blades are a good way to work on carving...I do tend to sit back on the skis on the double blues/blacks...and this makes me an inefficient/poor form skier...on 'lesser' terrain, I'm fine...
I don't think they are any better (or worse) at developing carving skills than regular skis, and perhaps more likely to let you get away with bad habits. You're much better advised to think about taking some lessons rather than thinking that changing your kit will fix any technical deficiencies you have.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
headless, I'm a competent intermediate skier and I have tried snow blades once, renting them for one day instead of skis. At first I found them a bit of a laugh, getting around, on and off lifts, etc. is a doddle. They are very easy to turn but do nothing for your technique. You don't really need to initiate the turn as you do on skis, they pretty much turn by themselves. In fact, it's not easy at all to keep them in a straight line, either traversing or down the fall line. As soon as you get any sort of speed up, they become unstable and hard to control. The also don't deal very well with varying conditions (ice, slush, crud, etc.).

So my summary was that they were fun for a couple of hours larking about on easy slopes, but were not a replacement for skis in terms of control or speed at all, and potentially quite scary on steeper slopes and/or varying conditions.

If you feel your technique is lacking, then lessons are the only way you will ever improve.
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Maybe just try some fairly short/turny slalom type skis instead? Should do the trick.

I can see that they would be a help in moguls, but that's hardly going to develop your technique on proper skis. They do turn really easy, but that just encourages lazy technique...
IMHO lessons will definitely do far more for your mogul technique than blades... I think they should be seen as a bit of fun on the side rather than a development tool. I suspect most instructors would back that up.

As has been said before, blades are good fun for an afternoon but they won't really develop your technique. Personally I got frustrated with how massively unstable they get at any significant speed, and how easy they are to spin out. So by way of advice on how to handle them, be careful of speed because they get quite unpredictable.
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I used blades for about 7 weeks and despite the fact I'm probably totally wrong had great fun on them.

I thought that they helped develop a better feel for my weight/position front and rear on them.

If anything I found them more fun either doing big radius fast turns on easy runs and convenient to flick across when changing traverse direction (Not too much a traverse more of a high speed sideslip) on steeper stuff.

Lack of edge/control area meant I didn't find them that great in bumps.

Yes they wag around a bit if just left run flat in a straight line but you get used to it. (Helped when using dodgy bent ski I bought off ebay!!)

As a bit of fun to complement skiing just go for it Smile
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Quote:

I don't think they are any better (or worse) at developing carving skills than regular skis

I had a ski lesson on blades once, with a BASS instructor. the whole group did. We did short, fast, "short leg/long leg" turns and I do think it was helpful - but it was just half a day.

We had a few pairs of blades for years and years - now chucked out because of dangerous non-release bindings.

they're much better NOT left to run flat. They absolutely need to be kept on their edges.
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pam w wrote:
they're much better NOT left to run flat. They absolutely need to be kept on their edges.
Which is ironic considering the proportion of snowbladers who run flat on their blades with the occasional unskilled pivot to try and change direction.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I like watching people trying to do runouts to flat on them and then go flying when they decide they've had enough of going in a straight line and chuck the blader @rse over tit.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 24-02-12 15:11; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thank you all for your comments and please keep them coming.

OldMike...you echoed what I've heard from others who have used them. I have had plenty of lessons...just can't get proper biomechanics with really steep and bumpy runs. My tornadoes are awesome...better than me, for sure! However, I feel that if I could have something that would effectively force me to keep true to proper biomechanics, it would compliment my skiing.

The Head Salamanders are really nicely rated...many long-time skiers apparently have found them to enhance their skiing ability...by what pure mechanism, I do not know...but a with a shorter ski, I won't be able to lean back, or else I'll be on my butt!

I'm hoping I have the experience that you have had...it'd be fun to get better on skis and have two options to work with when on the slopes...

Oh, I weigh about 220, so I am a bit concerned about chatter, but my tornadoes will do that at certain times...I'm looking for better body position and better carving...I figure with less ski, it will force my form to get better...

One more thing...my wife is threatening not to ski with me if I wear the blades...she's a bit biased herself!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I used blades for a couple of ski holidays. My problem was coming back to skiing after having broken a leg (playing football, not skiing). The break has left my right foot slightly twisted out - with full size skis this twist was more pronounced. I used blades for a couple of weeks as I said and then moved up to Atomic 123's which were about 125cm long and I'm now back onto full length skis and consider myself a good intermediate low ability advanced. In other words I can get down any slope in a controlled fashion and can do off piste after a fashion. I think the blades helped my confidence and may have helped improve my technique. My advice - take the blades and tornadoes then if you don't feel they are helping at all bin them and get the full lenghth skis on. Also, as mentioned above, if the conditions are anything less than well groomed slopes you will struggle with the blades.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
John,

Great advice...thank you...I will be taking both with me, so I can switch off and on. I'm hoping I'll like the blades more. In videos, they actually look like a lot of fun and the maneuverability of them is impressive. I do well with my tornadoes (and I do love them), but steeper and bumpier slopes are really tiring...I'm not as lithe as others so some help with getting around bumps will be a great help.

As I wrote before, my wife thinks they look ridiculous, as do many serious skiers. I can deal with that issue...provided I can better keep up with her.

Speed has never been an issue with me as I am pretty big and the tornadoes move fast...I'd actually give up some speed for greater control...this is a fair trade-off for me. Most importantly, I want to use whatever will reduce the likelihood of injury...sure, no product is fail-safe as you can get hurt sking with anything, but if I'm less likely to cross skis and if I can better control a shorter ski, all the better...

My biggest hope is that my carving will sharpen up so when I use the tornadoes, I'm good at carving to both sides (yeah, I have a favorite side like most other people and that, along with leaning back on the skis at times, are the limitations of my ability at this time).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi Headless, I would say don't expect greater control on blades, but just ensure that you adapt your route choice and margins of safety appropriately. As terrain gets steeper I found blading went from fast carving to racing sideslip with direction changes, all good for balance though.

like most things everyone remembers the irresponsible blader, boarder etc.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Admin, would it be worth adding a snowblade/shortski section, like the boarders have? You could stick a subsection in there also, called "first ski purchase advice" Laughing
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headless, if you are "pretty big" be careful with your knees on blades - they are MUCH harder on knees, IME.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
mike...gotcha...this is very good to consider...let's hope there's some powder...I'll be using the tornadoes only if it's icy/slushy...

Gate...good idea...not sure if that's a dig or not...I've been a skier my whole life and am pretty darn good...not great, but very good...thought the blades would be an interesting change to help with some areas I might be weaker with when on the longer skis...

Pam, thanks for the advice...why are they harder on the knees? I figured the carving is initiated with more hip/body movement...now, telemarking (sp?)...that looks hard on the knees...
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headless, hello and welcome to snow heads.

are you called headless because you have it a) in the sand or b) up your back bottom?

sorry couldn't help myself
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ed,

Shouldn't it be because I have it a) in the snow or b)in pieces all over the slope?

Let's hope I keep all my pieces safe and functioning when I hit the slopes!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
headless, "interesting change" may be spot on! But good luck & welcome!

Give us a review on your findings in the new category! wink
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Quote:

why are they harder on the knees?

I don't know. At a guess, because they are so much shorter, all the shocks/uneven bits of the surface are transmitted more directly to your knees than they are on skis. Longer skis act as a kind of "shock absorber", perhaps. I'm guessing though - probably somebody could come up with a more accurate reason. But I do think it's the case - and other people have said the same. These days, with dodgy-ish knees, there's no way I'd use blades.
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Pam, interesting take....I'd figure that longer skis, having a longer lever arm, would place far great torsional stress on the knees....as shorter skis are easier to maneuver, there is effectively less stress when carving. With long skis, if you ever cross them and take a fall, it's a good thing they come off or we'd all be no longer skiing!

I think there are inherent risks with any snow sport anything strapped to your feet...I'll letcha know when I try them, but I'd be willing to bet that longer skis place more stress on the knees as most knee injuries are due to a pivot-shift type of movements, and if you edge and get stuck (like in a rut), you're going to be in far greater trouble with a longer ski getting stuck...

Anyone else with thoughts on this?
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gate, I will...will be trying them out in a couple of weeks...I'm actually quite excited to try them...see how different they are from my tornadoes!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
headless wrote:
I've been a skier my whole life and am pretty darn good...not great, but very good...


If you've been skiing your whole life, are still on that intermediate plateau, and instead of having lessons with a qualified instructor think blades will help withyour issues of leaning back, then that comment ^^ is quite inaccurate. I used to lean back too much - then I had intensive lessons, Now I don't lean back, initiate my turn correctly and have much better balance on my downhill ski.....
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mustdah,

I've had lots of lessons but I simply don't ski enough to get to the next level....without maybe a bit of assistance. I can ski double blues and some 'mild' blacks out west, but I want to be more efficient (like everyone else)...I believe the blades will force me to use better mechanics as there's less ski to 'cheat' with. Something has to be said for a 170 vs. 94cm ski...less margin of error on the 94...skill training can be translated back to the 170s many say...

We'll see and I'll letcha know...could be interesting...should be fun...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

mike...gotcha...this is very good to consider...let's hope there's some powder...I'll be using the tornadoes only if it's icy/slushy...


Powder is probably the last thing you want with blades unless standing still/lying face down while everybody else flies by is your idea of fun.

Blades won't punish bad technique in the slightest, long stiff skis with little sidecut will
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Rambotion....that's actually funny. Thank goodness I have good balance and work on it a lot...some say powder is tough with blades while others say slush and ice is horrible...whatever the conditions are, I'll have to figure it out.

If I get on them and can't control them, I'll just put on my tornadoes and it's a done deal...however, I actually expect to carve really well with the salamanders..they get great reviews from all levels of skiers...they're hard to find as they sell out a lot...

As far as punishing bad technique...on the toughest of slopes, I tend to lean back a little...very, very bad...if I were to do this on blades, won't I be going down the mountain on my backside? I figure blades require you to be right over foot...leaning forward..fine...leaning back...ut oh!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
headless, do you like kittens?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
clarky,

I'll let you go down this road a little more before I respond! Shocked
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
God/random other deity kills one every time someone snowblades...

But more seriously, have you ever seen an image or film of someone blading and looking good - with good technique and style (or in real life for that matter)? I've been with a Staatliche instructor on them, and even he looked stupid. You might not be able to get away with leaning back, but equally they don't encourage you to drive the tip. Used correctly in the right circumstances they can be a good training tool, but are far far from being a general cure-all solution. You would be much better off spending the money on lessons than just blading for a few weeks.
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I actually did talk with instructors I know and ski junkies at Park City last year when I was there...many had tried them but few would admit it! wink Most did not discourage me from trying them...

I'm not trying them so as to find the panacea for all my skiing woes (and luckily there aren't that many)...I'm looking for something to maybe tweak the way I carve so when I do go to my tornadoes, my movement is a little more sound. Also, with moguls, most everyone says they help with movement.

Besides getting some flack here, my expert skier wife (who can really get down anything, anywhere) has threatenend not to be near me if I wear these every day...we'll see...depends if I like them or not....

On a good day, I can mostly keep up with her with the tornadoes...but, again, with black and moguls, I get myself into trouble...I do better on blues and double blues...

I'll give a full assessment of the blades as compared to skis...won't really know for sure until I compare them.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
If anything I find longer and stiffer skis easier to manage. They are more to stay on top of but ultimately that is rewarded by the effect they have in the snow. You're just screwed when you're tired. I think this is what pam was saying earlier about knees. Snowblades kick you around where as damper, stiffer skies cut through... err... the piste easily. You sound like some lessons and some phys would do wonders. Or as you say rock the snowblades and be comfortable in who you are.
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Oh and if it's a worry I can keep the wife company. ;P
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headless wrote:
as punishing bad technique...on the toughest of slopes, I tend to lean back a little...very, very bad...if I were to do this on blades, won't I be going down the mountain on my backside? I figure blades require you to be right over foot...leaning forward..fine...leaning back...ut oh!


Blades are very much pisted territory only and leaning too far forward or back very quickly produce unfortunate results been flat on my face a few times!

Pressure straight down through flexed ankles. Isn't most of this leaning forward talk just stopping us leaning back and to stay centred?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
headless, http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1996041#1996041 nuff said
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meh, points well taken...thank you...as far as my wife goes...I'm sure she'd prefer to ski with another expert...she'll take off off piste sometimes and leave me to myself...argh! I'll proceed with caution with the blades but I hope to be able to report back with some good info...

Boab...gotcha...

Mike, you point is exactly what I need. I am strong and can compensate for some errors of form...however, I'd rather just correct and rely less on my strength...staying centered is the key and that's where I'm hoping the blades help....
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Have fun Headless, tough on here with so many expert derogatory opinions wink wink
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