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It always rains in Whistler....

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
...just that it happens to have been frozen into more than 4m of nice light pow this March alone, and over 12M for the season so far!!

To help Cynic with his "rain" forecasting I thought I'd go and try out powder skiing almost every weekend of this year (plus a few bonus days).
Things got off pretty well with a healthy 3m in November, but the end of December was a little on the barren side snow wise, January was pretty good and Febrary ok (fortunately this lull coincided with doing the Peak to Valley race on a sunny day, then not so fortunately, me breaking myself for a few weeks) and it was looking like just an average 10m snow year. Then along came March...

Powder, powder, powder. Getting a bit bored of yet more powder and being able to do all sorts of craziness wink
I though friday was going to cap the season; a week of snow and no peak chair opening earlier in the week so > 1M of fresh awaited - the line-up was pretty crazy, but it was thoroughly worth it - so good in fact we did our run then called it a day and went to the bar to celebrate! Happy
Saturday a great day ripping the trees and pow with my 4 year old, still snowing hard...
Then Sunday, the sun was out and it was strangely quiet. Almost every run a winner; awesome, deep freshies and no tracks. mmmmm snowHead

I think the mark of this year was that I have actually skied almost exclusively the entire season on my Whitedot Redeemers. They are a super versatile, go anywhere, blast the bowls, hoon around, zip through the trees, stomp the jumps, super fun skis, but still, skiing all the time on 128mm underfoot powder skis wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I bought them Madeye-Smiley

... and the forecast is for 25cm today, there's still more than three weeks before Whistler closes, and nearly two months for Blackcomb...

Just remember... it always rains in Whistler wink


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 4-04-12 4:52; edited 4 times in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Am really thinking of going for it to whistler next. But a couple of things on my mind... As you are clearly so unbiased maybe you can answer..

How bad are the queues? I hear real bad and I don't like that

Are mountain lunches as bad as I hear? Takeaway burger and fries?

Do lifts close at 330pm so skiiers with nothing to do early are encouraged to go shopping?

The real attraction is powder. You will always get powder in high european resorts if you splash out on guide. Question is- how accessible is powder there? I.e. Do you need guide to bring you, do you need to hike up, are all the runs from the tops of lifts quickly tracked out or turned to crud like naturide runs here?

Would appreciate your unbiased opinion!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Unfortunately I was too busy skiing to stop for pics wink but here's a vid from my cube neighbour from the end of January...


http://youtube.com/v/g6ZMltkjY5Q


.. Then it really started to snow


snowHead


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 4-04-12 4:49; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
patricksh wrote:
Am really thinking of going for it to whistler next. But a couple of things on my mind... As you are clearly so unbiased maybe you can answer..

Unbiased me... never wink

Quote:

How bad are the queues? I hear real bad and I don't like that

They can be pretty big on big powder days at the weekends. In the week it can feel almost deserted.

Quote:

Are mountain lunches as bad as I hear? Takeaway burger and fries?

More functional than high quality dining, though there are a few semi decent restaurants if you really want that.
Generally not too bad

Quote:

Do lifts close at 330pm so skiiers with nothing to do early are encouraged to go shopping?


No they close at 3.30 because it gets dark and ski patrol need to do their thing. At the moment they close at 4.
If you can ski hard from 8.15am to 4pm you are doing well Happy

Quote:

The real attraction is powder. You will always get powder in high european resorts if you splash out on guide. Question is- how accessible is powder there? I.e. Do you need guide to bring you, do you need to hike up, are all the runs from the tops of lifts quickly tracked out or turned to crud like naturide runs here?


Well it's the north american thing of inbounds off-piste - and there is a a lot of it. Of course powder is never guaranteed, but if the average annual snowfall is over 10m, there is a better chance
And yes it can get tracked pretty fast, though this weekend without trying very hard, we skied fresh almost all day
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Quote:

Quote:

Do lifts close at 330pm so skiiers with nothing to do early are encouraged to go shopping?



No they close at 3.30 because it gets dark and ski patrol need to do their thing. At the moment they close at 4.
If you can ski hard from 8.15am to 4pm you are doing well



Absolutely...don't forget Whistler is different to many Euro resorts in that vast swathes of skiable off-piste terrain is in bounds. A 2.30pm chair up Symphony, bootpack up Flute, ski and then walk out of Symphony to Harmony and you'll not make it back to town much before 4.30pm in dusk. Ski Patrol have a massive area to sweep so they get started early.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Ski Patrol have a massive area to sweep so they get started early
As they do in the French mega areas - where lifts are open until 4pm on the darkest winter days - and until 5 or later in spring....
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
French mega areas don't have (much) inbounds off piste terrain though do they.
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If I go to Whistler, then 3.30pm local timw is 1.30am at home so will probably be fit for sack then.

But I don't like idea of lifts closing that early.

And I don't buy that it is already dark. Vancouver is as far south as Alps. The resort is corporate owned - it was French ski resort heads told me (maybe they are making it up or maybe not) that part of deal for corporate business who lease units for shops etc is that skiikng finishes early so people will have time to shop. Having lived(but not skiied) in US I can confirm this is exactly how things operate in N America. Maybe Canada is different.
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stuarth, brilliant thread! Laughing Thanks for starting it. I've always got fed up with metres of powder on my trips to Whistler and end up praying for the bloody rain to come!

As for the lift opening times... If I recall correctly (and it's been a couple of years since I was last in Whistler), the lifts open earlier than most European resorts, and I've usually managed to get more skiing in during a day in Whistler than most European resorts - largely because the lift system is really rather well laid out (and there's an extra 30 minutes on mountain time). snowHead

Can't wait until I get my next opportunity to visit. Hoping to start my annual pre-Christmas trips again this year. Fingers crossed.
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patricksh,
Perhaps a slightly cynical view - can't think why a head of a French ski resort would tell you that? wink
Since most of the shops are open until 9pm in the winter, I doubt this is really the motivation.
The place was built (or at least developed) by Intrawest primarily as a vehicle to sell property. Since I guess the property market is now saturated, Intrawest are no longer (directly at least) part of WhistlerBlackcomb.
Also (since you've lived in N. America, you'll probably know this), people here tend to go to dinner earlier than in Europe.
Another thing to consider is the number of people getting on that last lift of the day - it probably doesn't make economic sense to keep thing open all that much later.

However if you look at the closure pattern of the lifts, then I'd stick with my original assertion that it is to give patrol time to do a sweep, and then get the groomers out there.

I really can't think of too many days where I (or rather my legs!) have thought the ski day wasn't long enough, though guess I'm not often stopping for a 2 hour lunch and glass of vin chaud wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
[How many treewell areas and creek drainages does your average French pisteur sweep? If you ski hard 15.30 is plenty late enough and you can always use it to bag the last gondola up to Roundhouse then have a glorious 7 minute (or less if you're good) blatt down to Dusty's. Or last peak chair and a Peak to Creek etc . In almost any N American resort lifts are very empty between 3 and 4 pm no matter how good conditions. Locals don't burn themsleves out and tourists generally can't hack full days.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Whistler was one of those resorts I just had to tick off the list. But when I eventually did I found it to be a slight disappointment. Maybe my expectations were too high and maybe I didn't spend enough time there (10 days), but it didn't quite live up to all the hype for me in a number of ways eg. crowds, food, snow, variety of pistes etc. Still better than many resorts I've been too, but wouldn't make my personal top 3. I get the impression it's a much better resort for a season (where you can learn the secret bits and find the fresh tracks after the first 10 minutes) than it is for a 1 or 2 week holiday trip.
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You know it makes sense.
uktrailmonster, Anywhere is as good as the conditions you get. There's no doubt they have a major league PR machine & is is busier even midweek than most N American resorts. Weather lockdown plays a significant role too. Whistler Mtn is a pretty miserable experience when its raining lower mountain and anything vaguely alpine is closed but when it's good you've got a whole world to explore in relative safety. Food on mountain definitely isn't a strength and a coastal snowpack takes some adjusting to.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
patricksh wrote:
Vancouver is as far south as Alps.


Pardon? Whistler is roughly on the same latitude as Brighton. Which is not in the Alps.

patricksh wrote:
The resort is corporate owned - it was French ski resort heads told me (maybe they are making it up or maybe not) that part of deal for corporate business who lease units for shops etc is that skiikng finishes early so people will have time to shop. Having lived(but not skiied) in US I can confirm this is exactly how things operate in N America. Maybe Canada is different.


I think you were fed a line.

I have had very few days when I have started early and still felt full of beans at 3.30 in W. In very general terms you have long lifts and so long runs and so lots of ski time. And you have an abundance of moguls and steeps. If you can that terrain hard all day, you're a better man than me.

The real answer is to try it and make your own mind up based on that. We first came here 21 years ago and have been back every year, at least once on winter. In the meantime we've skied a fair few (but not all) of the well known European good resorts, but we keep coming back here.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
greg66 wrote:
patricksh wrote:
Vancouver is as far south as Alps.


Pardon? Whistler is roughly on the same latitude as Brighton. Which is not in the Alps.



I think Vancouver (not Whistler), is about the same lattitude as Paris. It got dark about 7.30 -8ish pm today.
In December/January iirc the lifts close earlier and it is definitely getting fairly dark not all that much after 4ish.

Surely going shopping isn't the first thing you think of when the lifts close anyway - the lifts always close at beer o'clock wink


Bottom line is that Whistler is what it is. In summary:
-It's not a super classy or quaint little skiing village, it is a purpose built ski resort, that caters primarily to the north american and local markets (where people go to the mountain mainly for the skiing).
-It is close to Vancouver (luckily for me!) so can get very busy at the weekend
there are lots of very good and totally obsessed skiers here, so if you expect to rock up to the peak chair on a powder day and find no line up, well you are not going to be happy Happy
-It has plenty of good bars and some very good restaurants, but again remember it (probably) took you 10 hours to fly here, that because it's in N. America not Europe so don't expect it to be Europe.
-The snow can be great, sometimes light, often on the heavy end (but that's also why there is normally so much), however it relies on mother nature so may be non-existent or raining or...

But back to my thread topic, when the snow is like it has been lately, with the terrain available, it is pretty much unbeatable (though there are probably many to rival it and Whistler isn't actually my favourite).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The message I am getting here is that the early lift closure doesn't make any difference to your skiing day, and you get to start earlier too. Plus with jet lag, I would probably be waking uo at 3am, waiting for first lift by 8am, but in bad shape by mid-afternoon and needing to ge to bed

For me the big thing is powder. I am at stage now where I am progressing but need lots of practice. In europe you gotta do this off-piste, usually means joining guided group, it is money well spent, but sometimes I have been brought on backcountry treks that just terrify me (esp after the instructor got caught in small avalanche last tine- he was ok) and so I don't ski well then. I would love accessible in-bounds powder where I could do same run on my own ffor hours if it was working for me. I don't think this is possible in Europe.

Other thing I heard re Whistler is a lot of flat light, because it is always cloudy, even when not snowing? (Maybe why it gets "dark" early). There are a lot more bluebird days in Colorado I am told. But I have thought about this - for me main reason to go to N America is powder, and from my research nowhere does this more reliably than Whistler
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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patricksh,

I've just got back after (another) 2 weeks in Whistler. In that time, the longest wait I had in a liftline was 20 minutes (once only, first chair up on a powder day): the rest of the time there were short lines (<5 minutes), and after noon, no lines to speak of.

I got rained on once - Last Wednesday, last run of the day, skiing down to Whistler base (above the Gondola midstation, the rain was snow, and it was just starting to deposit the rather large quantity that's been accumulating for the last week - see the thread in Snow Reports).

The light was bright in parts , flat in parts and downright white-out in parts (depending on position on the mountain, weather and time of day), but generally OK. With 5000 feet of skiable mountain, the clouds hang at different levels, and blow in and out, and you can usually find something that you can both see and ski (and the last resort is that there's some good tree skiing in bad light conditions). White-outs are usually at the top, usually mean that it's snowing, and usually mean that tomorrow you'll have all that fresh snow. It's certainly NOT "always cloudy" - I had several bluebird days where I had a trail pretty much to myself, despite my first week coinciding with the local Spring Break.

An area like Harmony Bowl is right up your street. - Lift-served, ski anywhere, mostly unpisted and a wide range of slopes from gentle to vertiginous. It's sufficiently large that it takes time to get tracked out, and sufficiently high that the snow stays in good shape. - And that's only one (relatively small) area of the ski-anywhere terrain that's inbound, avy-controlled and patrolled.

Oh yeah, and if you want, you can still join guided groups to explore W/B's terrain (Ski Esprit/Murray Camp/Extremely Canadian) who'll also terrify the pants off you.
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Quote:

I get the impression it's a much better resort for a season (where you can learn the secret bits and find the fresh tracks after the first 10 minutes) than it is for a 1 or 2 week holiday trip


This is a good point. As discussed, Whistler is much much more than what you can see on the piste map. You'll see no references to Christmas Trees, Grey Zone, Kybers etc on the piste map but to people who know Whistler these areas provide some of the best skiing by some considerable distance. Those in the know deliberately avoid those areas that become tracked quickly on a powder day - such as those accessed via Spanky's or perhaps the routes from Peak and around Whistler Bowl. I was there in late Feb this year and I will still able to get fresh tracks in the Kybers trees 4/5 days after the snow. Flute and Oboe can also offer the same if you're prepared to hike a little.

Whistler means different things to different people (the same for pretty much every ski resort I guess) but for me it's the most complete resort out there.
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I think I gotta go for it. Anyway I want to do N America at some stage to just experience the differences to Europe. I don't hear any dissenters to say Whistler isn't the best that continent has to offer.

I am thinking of going for 1st 2 wks of jan. That way kids just miss 1 wk of school. Prob time things so 1st day of skiing is jan 2, when hopefully it would have quitened down a bit, and leave around fri 11 so get good 9 or 10 days. How would crowds be then?

My kids are 7 and 9 and skiied twice before. OH intermdiate (she would kill me for saying but she is timid). She will NOT ski in flat light or white-out

I would appreciate any tips re accom (would like hotel v close to lifts, maybe with other distractions for kids, or, even better, CHILDCARE!), skischools (for them, ie will DEFINITELY do extremely canadian), and any other tips I should know
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patricksh wrote:
I don't hear any dissenters to say Whistler isn't the best that continent has to offer.


Well that depends on what you want....

In my opinion there are places to ski in BC that I personally think are better for the skiing I want to do.
If you want super light pow then probably Utah is better
If you want blue skies, then Colorado is probably better
If you want super mega steep epic Heli skiing then Alaska is probably better
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
...and to answer your questions since you are interrupting my weather/powder/self adulation thread... wink

Quote:

I am thinking of going for 1st 2 wks of jan. That way kids just miss 1 wk of school. Prob time things so 1st day of skiing is jan 2, when hopefully it would have quitened down a bit, and leave around fri 11 so get good 9 or 10 days. How would crowds be then?


Yes, January is generally v. quiet, the Christmas/new year week is v busy. Of coursethe risk going earlier is that the snow pack is less, and of course the lifts shut earlier wink

Quote:

My kids are 7 and 9 and skiied twice before. OH intermdiate (she would kill me for saying but she is timid). She will NOT ski in flat light or white-out


The ski school (there is only one really), is very good. Whistler kids for the young-uns (my son dislikes it, but that's because he is 4 and can't go everywhere he wants!), and Ski Esprit for the other half. Ski esprit is great as it is a multi-day program, is very social, isn't too hard work, and has really good instructors (or it did when I did it some time back), so good for encouragement/confidence building as well as seeing both mountains

Quote:

I would appreciate any tips re accom (would like hotel v close to lifts, maybe with other distractions for kids, or, even better, CHILDCARE!), skischools (for them, ie will DEFINITELY do extremely canadian), and any other tips I should know


I would say you can be anywhere and get the bus, but due to local council inspired cutbacks, the free village service hasn't been all that great this year.
Also consider Dave Murray Camp. I've skied a lot with Extremely Canadian (2 to 4 days a week for the best part of 2 seasons), and it is great for getting you to do things you don't think you really want to, the technique to deal with such places, and finding those super secret stashes, but generally I would say Dave Murray Camp is a better more rounded program, possibly due to the slightly different expectations.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I read this

patricksh wrote:
For me the big thing is powder. I am at stage now where I am progressing but need lots of practice.


and I thought: Utah. Maybe somewhere in the BC interior, or Colorado, or Banff/Sunshine, because those are places that have storms that dump champagne powder and then blow through.

Then I read this

patricksh wrote:
I am thinking of going for 1st 2 wks of jan. That way kids just miss 1 wk of school. Prob time things so 1st day of skiing is jan 2, when hopefully it would have quitened down a bit, and leave around fri 11 so get good 9 or 10 days. How would crowds be then?

My kids are 7 and 9 and skiied twice before. OH intermdiate (she would kill me for saying but she is timid). She will NOT ski in flat light or white-out


and realised that just like the rest of us, your life is about compromise!

Personally, much as I would like to ski in Utah, I'm not willing to endure plane changes until the kids (12 and 10) are a lot older. Vail is worth a look. BC interior is a long flight plus a long drive - again, something I'm not willing to embark on just yet. Banff at that time of year can be punishingly cold - I have seen -25 on the car thermometer on the drive to Lake Louise in Jan, and had to run between shops in the evening. Plus Banff/LL/Sunshine are very spread out.

For W that time of year it should be quiet. I have done a few weeks around 5 to 12 Jan and there are no queues to speak of. I've also had pow, overcast skies and spring snow in that week. That's the thing about Whistler: it is unpredictable.

For the kids, Adventure Camp rather than day lessons is the way to go. For your OH, I'd suggest ski school or ski esprit, both of which should help her build confidence in low light Canadian ski school is all about positivity, and very unlike the "follow me" school of teaching.

I can bore for England on other tips and tricks. Find an uncomfortable chair and PM me if interested.
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patricksh wrote:
Anyway I want to do N America at some stage to just experience the differences to Europe. I don't hear any dissenters to say Whistler isn't the best that continent has to offer.


I'd suggest that Whistler is the most like a major European resort that you will find in North America i.e. it's relatively large, commercial and geared toward major Tour Operators. It is still different, but much closer to the European experience (including both the good and bad sides of a large Euro resort) than many other Canadian resorts I can think of. If you really wanted to experience the difference between major European resorts and N. America, I think there are many alternative resorts that would differentiate more for you. A few more Canadian resorts to consider: Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, Red Mountain, Big White, Silver Star, Fernie, plus dozens of others. I don't have any experience of the US resorts, but I imagine it's a similar story.

Remember that there is no 'best' resort for everyone. Whistler is simply the biggest and most promoted Canadian resort with all the pros and cons that inevitably brings. Think about what you really want from a resort and what you are trying to get away from in Europe. For us that eventually led us to Big White (interior BC) for a number of key reasons - snow sure light powder, safe tree skiing / inbounds off-piste, great family resort, fantastic ski-in-out accomodation, reasonable size without queues, etc, etc. Again not the 'best' resort in every respect, just different.
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greg66 wrote:
BC interior is a long flight plus a long drive


Well you can turn the long drive into a 45 min shuttle flight from Calgary or Vancouver. Then it's an hour in the car to most resorts. The connecting flight adds a few hours for sure, but at least Vancouver airport is a pleasant enough place to hang out after the long haul. Our 2 year old didn't complain about it this year or last.
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Thanks for all pointers!
Whistler not set in stone by any means, but "winning" so far
Personally I want to get powder, in-bounds, so I could get to do lesson in am and still be able to spend a couple of hours on my own doing "steep and deep" , practising powder technique etc, without fear of getting lost or buried. So that the following year I go back to france and join OP group and not be the one always losing mojo
For me , it would be important powder is reliable

But OH will not like flat light.

I would look at other resorts. Maybe should start new thread
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