 Poster: A snowHead
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I'd read a few conflicting threads about this outfit on here before I went to St Anton last weekend. Some good comments and also some bad.
Four of my mates and I booked a day out with one of their guides on Monday. All of us were happy skiing beside pistes etc and but had never streayed very far away from them before. After meeting up with Hannes our guide, and a quick lesson on the avalanche kit we headed off. We skied all over the place, from Galzig down towards St Cristoph and then cutting left back to St Anton, back up to the traverse above red 14, joining onto ski route 11a for a few hundred yards then off piste again all the way down to Alpe Ruez - its beautiful skiing along the valley above the main road. There we jumped on a bus and off to Zurs, where we went off the back of the Hexenboden lift and down into the Paziel-Tal valley (?) walked out of there (eventually!) , had lunch then a last long run down what is marked on the map as Wiesele. The bus took us back to Alpe Ruez and from there went back up high and skied as much side piste as possible back to St Anton.
In all a fantastic day, probably my best ever skiing day. The guide was great, managing to be both patient and yet push us very hard at the same time.
Well worth a look if you're in Arlberg.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds excellent. Have been considering doing for a while now and hopefully can talk the guys round to doing it in a few weeks time
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PtP have been really excellent for me too. I have spent 8 weeks or so skiing with them, and they have been the main reason that I have kept returning to St Anton, year upon year. I just wish all resorts had a similar guiding outfit. They really are top notch.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JayDub, must agree, I've done four weeks with them and keep going back. It's expensive but addictive 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Very good in my limited experience
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Very good guides, if a bit pricey, especially Graham Austick the owner (one of my 4 favourite guides), though he is only there in January now, due to his Lyngen Fjord Lodge.
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They do like their Strudel and coffee stops though  although not necessarily a bad thing!
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I have only ever stopped for lunch with PtPnorris, never had a coffee stop - would have been nice actually!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Coffee stops are for wimps  - What is wrong with a few sucks on your camelback and a couple of chunks of chocolate whilst on or in the lifts - far more efficient use of your ski time.
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I find PtP expensive compared to the off piste division of St Anton Ski School..... brilliant guides taking us to all sorts of inaccessible places, for a fraction of the cost.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Cipria, are you sure? I skied with both at New Year. Piste to Powder charged 100 Euros a day and the ski school Powder Club 98 Euros.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Cipria wrote: |
| I find PtP expensive compared to the off piste division of St Anton Ski School..... brilliant guides taking us to all sorts of inaccessible places, for a fraction of the cost. |
A "fraction"? . In my experience they all charge roughly the same, give or take a beer's worth of Euros. What was the difference you saw?
Current rates are:
P2P - €100 /day (http://www.pistetopowder.com/off-piste-guiding-stanton-austria.html)
PowderClub €98 /day (http://www.powderclub.at/english/english_rates.html)
Both have same maximum group size of 7 plus guide.
If you are comparing to the regular ski school then there is indeed a big difference, they charge about €40 a day if you book in for 6 days, but those guys will not be mountain guides and it's not the off-piste part of the ski school (that's the PowderClub), they won't take you to the same places that the PowderClub or P2P will take you. But if conditions are good and you are in a good group you'll certainly get good skiing with them and tuition too of course.
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Of course if you go with PtP, if you make up your own group of 5 or 6 it is cheaper than joining a group.
When I skied with Graham himself I found it was he who led the way and the non-PtP guides followed his leads. We always seemed to be the first on an untracked slope.
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You know it makes sense.
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We used Ski St Anton-Classic in January for two days. We had two guides for our group - Peter Kossler and Eric ?? £50 per day. Excellent days - and no wasted time for coffee stops!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I may be wrong but I don't think St Anton Classic "guides" are actually High Mountain Guides (Bergfuhrer) though they may have some teaching qualifications. Dobz, I assume your day with them was at least fully off-piste, finding the untracked snow?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
If you are comparing to the regular ski school then there is indeed a big difference, they charge about €40 a day if you book in for 6 days, but those guys will not be mountain guides and it's not the off-piste part of the ski school (that's the PowderClub), they won't take you to the same places that the PowderClub or P2P will take you. But if conditions are good and you are in a good group you'll certainly get good skiing with them and tuition too of course.
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Hmm not sure about this, a lot of the Arlberg Ski School guys are ski/bergfuehrers - most of the Staatliche instructors are anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you are comparing to the regular ski school then there is indeed a big difference, they charge about €40 a day if you book in for 6 days, but those guys will not be mountain guides and it's not the off-piste part of the ski school (that's the PowderClub), they won't take you to the same places that the PowderClub or P2P will take you. But if conditions are good and you are in a good group you'll certainly get good skiing with them and tuition too of course.
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Hmm not sure about this, a lot of the Arlberg Ski School guys are ski/bergfuehrers - most of the Staatliche instructors are anyway. |
Yes, but don't those guides do the powder club thing? I'd be surprised if a lot of the instructors taking normal (i.e. non-powder club) lessons were full IVBV/IFMGA guides ... but I've been wrong before:-) Even so, a normal ski school lesson won't take you to the places as a p2p or powder club group will they? I've never seen normal ski schools doing the same kind of thing anyway. If they do I'm not sure what is the point of the ski school having powder club brand. Maybe it's more a difference in the timings, regular ski school is 4 hours per day and p2p/powder club is all day?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sah wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you are comparing to the regular ski school then there is indeed a big difference, they charge about €40 a day if you book in for 6 days, but those guys will not be mountain guides and it's not the off-piste part of the ski school (that's the PowderClub), they won't take you to the same places that the PowderClub or P2P will take you. But if conditions are good and you are in a good group you'll certainly get good skiing with them and tuition too of course.
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Hmm not sure about this, a lot of the Arlberg Ski School guys are ski/bergfuehrers - most of the Staatliche instructors are anyway. |
Yes, but don't those guides do the powder club thing? I'd be surprised if a lot of the instructors taking normal (i.e. non-powder club) lessons were full IVBV/IFMGA guides ... but I've been wrong before:-) Even so, a normal ski school lesson won't take you to the places as a p2p or powder club group will they? I've never seen normal ski schools doing the same kind of thing anyway. If they do I'm not sure what is the point of the ski school having powder club brand. Maybe it's more a difference in the timings, regular ski school is 4 hours per day and p2p/powder club is all day? |
I don't know for sure, but many of the Staatliches who teach lessons (although obviously most of the school's instructors aren't Staatliches, in a school of nearly 400 there are quite a few!) definitely have the guiding qualification too - including the guy who runs the kids department for one (although actually he may have moved on to a new pure guiding outfit now, been a few years since I was working there).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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2016 update! My review of P2P follows:
I booked a 5 day course with Piste to Powder in March. I had an amazing week’s skiing and found the guides very professional and friendly.
Although the website positions the open groups as instructional, in fact the guides vary a lot in how much tuition they give. Some give almost none, unless you ask them, while others give feedback and guidance at almost every stop!
It’s a bit complicated because some clients are flawless skiers and are therefore mainly in it to get as many tracks as possible, whilst others would benefit from a slower pace and more tuition.
My groups were usually fairly equal in ability. And that brings me to my only really criticism of Piste to Powder. We rarely made a prompt start at 845. This is because some people turn up on the day, so the groups need to be juggled around to make sure the numbers and abilities are correct.
To compound this issue, if you don’t have your own safety equipment (beeper etc), you need to borrow it from the guide themself rather than Piste to Powder. This often meant delays if people switched groups. It’s the last thing you want on a powder day and resulted in us not getting as many fresh tracks as I would have liked.
On the subject of safety gear, check any gear you are given. When it came to practice I found that the probe I’d been given was completely tangled and wouldn’t stay together.
Despite this blip, the guides seemed to be very switched on when it came to safety. Overall I would recommend highly Piste to Powder to anyone looking to spend some time away from the piste. Final note, you need to be as fit and strong as possible to get the most out of the experience - do those squats!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Did a p2p day in St Anton a few years ago and found them to be excellent. Geli our instructor, she's married to Stefan Haeusl of WFT fame, was brilliant and really gelled with my wife who needs a little encouragement to go far from the sides. Some of the tips and aids to having a great day out in the "back country" still resound today. Fantastic attitude to skiing and encouragement to getting out into the powder which has opened up a whole new aspect of our mountain time. Well worth the money and when we return to St Anton will definitely give p2p a call.
Gelis' tip on how to replace a ski in steep and deep powder has save much time over the last few years which is invaluable especially as fitness seems harder each year to maintain a standard! And doggy knees!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ADESki wrote: |
Gelis' tip on how to replace a ski in steep and deep powder has save much time over the last few years which is invaluable especially as fitness seems harder each year to maintain a standard! And doggy knees! |
Does this tip start
1 Ensure you don't have Marker heelpieces ?
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Just loving the thought of "doggy knees" 
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| Scrumpy wrote: |
| Just loving the thought of "doggy knees" |
Oops! Mind you I usually end up on all fours! And anyway fat fingers throw better snowballs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did P2P a few times a few years ago and again recently. The main disappointment this time round is we never left until well after 9, hitting lift queues, and on powder mornings seeing so many lines being taken while we were still on Galzig. This was not the case a few years ago when we were gone by 845 on powder mornings.
I usually do a week. I found this year more disjointed. Never being sure what group you were going to be in any given morning.
Finally they have stopped going to Underground after, which I always used to love
I think this is all down to business, catering for clients who want to pick and choose days they ski, and happy to wait until 915 to make sure they accommodate everyone including those just rocking up on the morning. I would suggest a much better discount for clients booking 5 days to encourage 5-day groups. It is still great but not magical like it used to be.
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| Quote: |
I would suggest a much better discount for clients booking 5 days to encourage 5-day groups
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Yes, I am amazed they don't do this. They don't need to lower the sticker price, just offer a little bit of a discount to anyone who books 5 days and pays up front. A few years ago the incentive was that you were guaranteed a spot if you booked up front as they didn't have many guides, these days it looks like that is no longer the case.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@sah, agreed.....that said based on the 9.15 thing I for one wouldn't want one day never mind five! usually plenty of SH's about go hook up with for powder and for more challenging days I'd prefer a local guide like Arlberg Guides. Early out and on it is key for a guided day I reckon, my pet hate is hanging about on a powder day for faffers.
I'm really looking forward to doing more in the Zurs area with the advent of next seasons Rauz link and just wondering whether best go hire guide from Stuben or Zurs for that?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I did 5 days over new year and there is some discount as it's 575 Euros for 5 days and 125 Euros per day otherwise. It's still best to book in advance as they were full when I tried to book at short notice last March.
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Piste to powder meet time is actually 8.45 in cafe Anton and they do aim to get everyone out by 9am...this allows time for conditions and safety checks with the guides..but not for drops ins which they don't have. .. the guides also know where to take you so as the powder rush crowd race for Stuben and Meinwasen ...they will take you on the uncrowded runs...for example I skied with Magnus this season on a powder day in an Open group. There were just 3 of us and after a quick run on Tobel we crossed to Rendl and had endless fantastic powder runs. We ate lunch in the cafeteria to be quick and back in the powder...was a fantastic day.
If you book private guide (4/5 of you makes it worthwhile) then you can be out by 8.45 and if you are in Stuben, Lech or Zurs they can also start from here - which means quick access to Albona and the tons of offpiste in this region. This season I guess will be on the new gondola...
People should not normally swap groups - but this is always a hazard of Open groups vs Private. Many guide companies no longer run these as they are more complicated as people either overrate or underrate themselves (In US they typically put women up and men down from their self rating!!). Powder club or ski school often have large groups 10-12 sometimes...I think 12 is the max. Piste to powder have a max of 7 but typically will run with 4/5. So you may pay a little more but its worth it.
All the piste to powder guides are qualified mountain guides (Bergfuhrer/UIAGM) - another difference from ski school and some other guiding operations (which incidentally starts around 10 I think and just runs for 4 hours - hence the cheaper rate) Having skied with many of them I can vouch that they will give you a fantastic day even in the most difficult of conditions. On powder days they will still find the untracked snow after the initial powder rush...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| The main disappointment this time round is we never left until well after 9 |
Yup. I had the same problem with them when I went. There was a lot of faffing in the cafe, whilst they tried to gloss over the fact that they'd combined groups one and two without letting clients know. Then when one of our group had discovered he had forgotten some kit, instead of leaving him to it we had to wait for him to go back and get it and get a later lift. Absolutely unforgivable in my view.
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| I can vouch that they will give you a fantastic day even in the most difficult of conditions. |
meh. I'm not so sure. We had a pretty good day with them, but nothing like as good as the lines I searched out on my own on subsequent trips. We only did one pitch that I would describe as stunning, and that was just the standard face off to the left of the Blue route to St Christoph from Galzig. The biggest dissapointment was the guide taking us from where we were in excellent vis over towards Stuben where the viz was non existent. But the time the second group 1 skier had given up injured and we returned to the good vis at Galzig the day was nearly gone.
We had a good day, but perhaps not as good as you'd hope if you hired a guide specifically for the purpose of taking you out for some amazing skiiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quick update from Piste to Powder - they have seen the feedback here and wanted to let you know that there will be a new meet time in the cafe to ensure that all the Open groups get out earlier....also private groups can start from St Christoph, Stuben, Zurs or Lech so there is lots of flexibility to ensure you get first tracks in the powder...and it has been really dumping out in St Anton so looking like a great season 16-17 ahead....lifts open 2nd December!
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FAQ
