 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lovely
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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how much of the first setup do you already have? the progression sounds good but only if it gradually goes from exisitng kit to new kit (ie dont buy new at each stage! do you already have a baron?). only other comment is there are skis plenty light enough that you wouldnt have to buy anything new at the last step to achieve the last step.
(i recently setup the second last step on your list (w/ plums), all good!
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I'd second what Barry says. I reckon the way you are thinking about it is logical and your first step is a great way to start. I wouldn't get too set on the subsequent steps because there are at least 3 things which no-one knows right now:
1. what new kit comes out while you're going through this process
2. how your interest in touring develops (maybe you decide that day trips are your thing and hut trips not so much)
3. what your own preferences for weight vs performance is (some people do hut trips on relatively heavy kit; some do 1 hour from the lifts stuff on lightweight kit)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm interested in people's opinions on this as well. I'm currently looking to get into more touring/BC and trying to decide the best way to go about it.
I currently ski on Preachers with Dukes and had planned to add an additional ski to the quiver for touring (with QK inserts in both to share the dukes) but since I'm only planning 1 day tours at most and fancy saving some cash for a second holiday I'm thinking about just getting some skins for the Preachers. This would also most likely allow me to get my own transceiver/shovel/probe rather than renting/borrowing. My questions are these.
Has anyone done much touring/BC on Preachers/Dukes and if so how was it?
What is the best option for skins for the Preacher, particularly bearing in mind there size?
Basically after a week in Mayrhofen and 6 days in Scotland (Glenshee/Lecht) I've realised that I love the Preachers and will happily ski them in anything so this might be a good solution but I'd appreciate any advice from the more experienced SH's out there.
Thanks for any help,
Jamie
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Neilski, tyrolia have a touring binding coming out soon too
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Neilski, I've done a couple of short skins approx 30mins & plenty of boot packs in standard alpine boots, with dukes for the skinning. So far I've not felt a touring boot would give me any advantages. I'd say technique of sliding the ski not lifting it would make more difference in short skins rather than the ski weight...
Jamied9, Skins for the preachers seems the most sensible suggestion. I had skins cut for my 90mm skis but at Arnos suggestion i cut them down the middle and they were fine for my wider skis....
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One other issue I have is ski length, I normally ski a 168 cm 50/50 on/ off ski and a 177 cm powder ski, was looking at 176 cm for the all mountain ski , but both also come in a 166 cm , i know the benefits of the extra length for the descent in soft snow, but shorter ski could be a bit more manoeuvrable in the bumps and trees etc and how are thing affected on the ascent , is a shorter ski easier on the climb for a shorter skier 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Neilski, long skis can make kick turns more difficult but if i were you I'd choose a length you'll enjoy skiing and work the kick turns out as best you can
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, good point , another reason i want to get rid of my 191 mantras, kick turns were difficult for me with lack of technique and flexibility
Jamied9, i did a couple days (4 ish hours on skins) recently on dukes and heavy mantras and although it was tough i managed to keep up with people on lighter setups, if you value the down more than the up i personally would just have a go on your current set up and see how it goes, half the reason for touring is to get fit so a bit extra weight isnt a killer unless your doing serious multi day tours IMO. The advice i got regarding skins was that pretty much any will do just fine and i bought the ones i got a deal on and they worked out just fine...
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 8-02-12 12:00; edited 1 time in total
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climbs on a shorter ski not necessarily better due to less contact skin to snow and more weight over a smaller contact area. I wouldn't over think it though, generally go towards your favourite "powder ski" length, so the 176 sounds fine
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You know it makes sense.
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Jamied9, I'm on a Preacher/Dukes set up and use G3 skins (140mm) and just trimmed them to size. I have done a couple of tours on them between 2-5 hours and found them fine, in fact, very enjoyable. I didn't feel fatigued after the ascent and then had the fun of the Preachers on the way down. Having said that, no one on the tours were on very light gear (a couple of guys on 130 waists!) so perhaps if you are touring with people on lighter gear there would be greater pressure. Also, due to some default when I was getting made, God ran out of legs and gave me tree trunks instead - I don't look great in a short skirt, but weight when touring wouldnt be a massive concern for me.
That said a friend of mine tours on similar set up with Barons and she slight, but has no hassles with the weight, so you should be all good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for the replies, sounds like I could be onto a winner here. Especially since I'm willing to sacrifice a bit on the up to get the most out of the down.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Neilski,
Just out of interest, why have you ruled out Colltex skins?
From what I have read the Kästle FX94's were developed for/by Chris Daveport and demand a skilled pilot to be on top of them all the time. After a few hours slogging up the hill are you sure they won't be too much ski for you on the way down?
Most of my touring friends and I have at least two sets of touring skis mainly because when conditions are bad (icy, bare bits, rocky etc) we don't want to be skidding around on ice and killing €800 powder skis. When conditions are good we would rather be on a wider, longer and softer tipped / rockered ski.
Equipment alone isn't going to make touring easy. As others have said how much equipment weight you can get away with depends on your fitness and equipment weight in relation to others within the group. I once did a tour where two other Brits in the group would run up and down Scafel Pike twice in one day. They did a full weeks Silvretta tour in normal ski boots and with heavy skis leaving the rest of the group trailing behind. I also started skiing at a later age (28.) than most Austrians but do plenty of balance exercises and keep myself fit. Even though most started skiing as kids here in Austria, I'm not the weakest skier in our large touring group by a significant margin - equipment is only part of the solution.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB,
"Just out of interest, why have you ruled out Colltex skins? "
I havent ruled out coltex skins, the two mentioned were just really examples , so will look at them.
"From what I have read the Kästle FX94's were developed for/by Chris Daveport and demand a skilled pilot to be on top of them all the time. After a few hours slogging up the hill are you sure they won't be too much ski for you on the way down? "
from what i have read about the fx 94 , i came to the conclusion that werent the best ski for anyone part of my requirements, but they were the best ski to cope well with all parts , if that make sense  and i have skied kastle skis for the past 4 years and know them pretty well, but have got a mate to get hold of them in 166 and 176 so can check out flex and feeling in them both. also looking at some other options but all suggestions welcome 
"Most of my touring friends and I have at least two sets of touring skis mainly because when conditions are bad (icy, bare bits, rocky etc) we don't want to be skidding around on ice and killing €800 powder skis. When conditions are good we would rather be on a wider, longer and softer tipped / rockered ski. "
i agree with this and to that end i am going to have my brilliant MX108 powder skis quiver killered for touring bindings as well for those special days, but the FX seem to me to be the bullett proof ski to cope with the ice/crud/variables 
"Equipment alone isn't going to make touring easy. As others have said how much equipment weight you can get away with depends on your fitness and equipment weight in relation to others within the group. I once did a tour where two other Brits in the group would run up and down Scafel Pike twice in one day. They did a full weeks Silvretta tour in normal ski boots and with heavy skis leaving the rest of the group trailing behind. I also started skiing at a later age (28.) than most Austrians but do plenty of balance exercises and keep myself fit. Even though most started skiing as kids here in Austria, I'm not the weakest skier in our large touring group by a significant margin - equipment is only part of the solution."
also so stongly agree , but i wont really know til i try will i to this end have been training hard and i am as fit as i ever been, and i think i will be prepared to carry a bit more weight up so as not comprimise the down.
would welcome some examples of what your touring group use for the everyday touring ski
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, FX 94 are 3700g at 176 and 3400 at 166 , but yep the mx108 are light for a deep pow ski and i am definatly going to get them QK for deep day touring later on , but as the OP says , its about a progression , starting with a ski that can do resort , side country and off piste skiing , and not having to fork out on whole new set up that wont suit where i am at now. so the barons will allow me to carry on using my alpine boots and give me great on-piste performance , the progression to a fully dedicated touring set up is away down the line , after i have completed a few full day tours. If i pick the right ski now i hope to get a good five years use from it , and then adding a tour specific ski to the mix later if needed.
looked at the slough and movement skis in general , they are super light and look good , but i am starting to lean towards the DPS wailer 99 as the allrounder i am looking for 
the kastle tx's look like a great ski and i hear there's some new models for next season to match anything out there weight wise
nice pics, looks like a great day out
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Neilski, I've got the Volkl Nanuq's but wish I'd taken a bit more of a weight penalty.
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Neilski, i'm a big movement fan, currently running Thunders, Sluffs and Goliaths. Have toured Thunders and Sluffs, and my new lightweight setup will mainly go on the thunders (but QK'd for the others). Have in the past had Gladiators (fave ski ever), so the Source is a good shout, but if you're thinking around the 100 mark for an all rounder, sluffs are yer boys. Them DPS sure are purdy though, have almost jumped in with those more than once! Some of the Kastle skis look mighty interesting and they seem to be getting a good push again - reckon you're spooled for choice, see what the off-season deals are doing
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Alans deep bath cheers,
have just pressed the button on a pair of DPS wailer 99's hybrid version , so the first part of the progression is set
DPS wailer 99 168 cm
Marker baron 13
QK inserts
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Neilski, I'm sure you will enjoy them, what are you taking to Japan? If you don't mind me asking, how come you went so short for an off piste ski??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kitenski, my Kastle MX108 's are the weapon of choice for Japan :sH:They are 177 cm and as long as I would ever want( have tried longer skis and just not happy stood on anything bigger), the reason for the shorter DPS is that it will be more than an off piste ski,want manoevrabilty as well as float , after speaking to the guys at both DPS and kastle both recommended 168 As the right length for my "style"of skiing.also in a major weight loss / fitness drive ATM so if get down to target 68kg think a shorter lighter ski is right
Don't get me wrong if every year was like this one , or I could get to Japan every year bigger would be the way, but most of my off- piste in the last few years has been of the shallow and bumpy variety, so hope this will work for me 
First proper off- piste ski I ever skied was a kastle mx98 in 158cm in verbier, as it was all they had left in the hire shop on a powder day shorter than 190 cm and I had an absolute blast .
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noiiiccce!
add plums/dynas and light tech boots to those skis down the line and thats an amazing setup, not much need to go lighter I would've thunk unless you're doing real long multiday hut stuff. remember that the real light stuff (unless going the pure carbon, sell a kidney route like dps pures or some pmgear stuff etc) will be less durable with thinner bases and edges etc to save weight. a hybrid DPS will stand up to far more abuse, and is still more than tourable. (I've always fancied dynafit skis for the lightness and the skin notches etc but they wouldnt be stiff enough for my fatass and i'd thrash the weedy bases & edges)
go steady putting the Qks into them beauties, (you could always stick the barons on straight mount first up, then QK em once you get more binders, not much benefit to do so maybe but an option to save on initial mount faff)
good work, keep us informed
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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barry, Cheers, already got Jon lined upto QK for the barons as I always transport skis in the flat , checked with the guys at DPS , they have done loads so will be fine in jons kind hands , did seriously look at some of the lighter options , but pures to dear , and maybe not the ski for me in our normal variable conditions , had a great offer on some pm bros but they were just too long for me , so think I am on to a winner
Keep an eye out for next years new touring ski line up from kastle , going to ultra light and very well built
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DB, "light is right".........
But what the hell do you have in your pack?
Understand if going for a 4-5 day tour, but the impression you give looks to be only a day tour...................
And hiking with a helmet on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there's one thing I've had drummed into me over the years is "less is best" for touring..........
PS carbon cannisters and ultralight vario pack is really good/better, but you (and I) still have to ask yourself is it sensible climbing with all that weight?
Anyway check these out, really good price - should hopefully get them tomorrow..........
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cfm/product/rab-exodus-pants/fuseaction/products.detail/code/17240090/id_colour/123/group/85/level/2
And for the record - I use K2 Mount Bakers avec Dynafit TLT & Garmont Axon for anything over two / three days and also depends on snow pack and people in the group*.
For days tours have Barons mounted on my Scott Missions - boots will depend on what the plan is where we park the car, but have been known to skin an hour or two in my Alpine boots.
Still not too sure how I'll be when I go out in March for four weeks after my ACL reconstruction (Sept), might only feel confident on the piste, also a question over Dynaift's releasing will be in the back of my mind after what happened to me last March, so if I do tour / ski powder will use the Missions with din set low ( and I've even bought some powder ribbons), ready for the inevitable...........questions, questions and decisions..........
*If I'm potentially fitter will take the heavier kit.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
DB, "light is right".........
But what the hell do you have in your pack?
Understand if going for a 4-5 day tour, but the impression you give looks to be only a day tour...................
And hiking with a helmet on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there's one thing I've had drummed into me over the years is "less is best" for touring..........
PS carbon cannisters and ultralight vario pack is really good/better, but you (and I) still have to ask yourself is it sensible climbing with all that weight? |
It must be my makeup bag and hairdryer.
Seriously - I wasn't touring, the second pic is just a short up hill section on a cat track, I didn't even have skins on. I was skiing offpiste through the trees with two boarders most of the time - prefer to have a well vented helmet on when not touring, esp in the trees. Yes I could have done without the ABS pack but to be honest it was a quick decison the night before and instead of swaping everything over to my non-airbag touring pack (and risk forgetting something) I just took it as it was after last Saturday's tour (inc skins and crampons etc). We've had temps below minus 20 with plenty of wind so I took plenty of clothing but it was really sunny with no wind and I ended up stuffing most of it in the backpack -hence the overbloated backpack.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Alans deep bath wrote: |
| Neilski, I've got the Volkl Nanuq's but wish I'd taken a bit more of a weight penalty. |
Just out of interest and hope you don't mind me asking but what weight/height are you and what length are the skis?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Weathercam, so taking all your kit out of your pack only to put it back in again doesn't count as faff?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DB wrote: |
| Alans deep bath wrote: |
| Neilski, I've got the Volkl Nanuq's but wish I'd taken a bit more of a weight penalty. |
Just out of interest and hope you don't mind me asking but what weight/height are you and what length are the skis? |
Not been on scales in a few months but probably around 74kg and 183cm. The 177's.
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Weathercam,
On a touring day I do normally pack it all the night before and turf out what I can.
(although last time I did that I left out my headlamp and we skied down in the dark  ) My clothing for the next day is also layed out but I made the decision Tuesday lunchtime, got back home late Tuesday then got up early Wednesday morning. The good thing about sliding with boarders is that even with dynafit you are still quicker than them getting into the bindings and you can pole across the traverses so stay higher before setting off on the descent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alans deep bath wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| Alans deep bath wrote: |
| Neilski, I've got the Volkl Nanuq's but wish I'd taken a bit more of a weight penalty. |
Just out of interest and hope you don't mind me asking but what weight/height are you and what length are the skis? |
Not been on scales in a few months but probably around 74kg and 183cm. The 177's. |
Surprizes me as the Nanuk is very stiff for it's weight (certainly a lot stiffner than my skis). Maybe you need to go for a some skis with metal layers in them e.g. Head i Peak. Where are your Nanuks lacking in performance, crud busting, top speed chatter, edge hold, or somewhere else?
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DB, edge hold is actually excellent. They definitely have a speed limit (and I'm not a hugely fast skier) and in choppy snow they get thrown about a fair bit. For such a light ski I was pleasantly surprised, especially with Dynafits.
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DB, apologies 3700 at 166
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Arno, not necessarily so - invariably when you get back, you always take some kit out of the your pack then by the next morning you can't remember what you took out and what you left in - so people quite often end up turfing all the contents out anyway*
Has to be said, the above does get worse as you get older, in much the same way as loosing your car keys becomes more frequent.
*Plus does depend on what that day's plans are eg are crampons / harness needed etc etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Two big mistakes I've made leaving things in my touring rucksack.
1. Forgeting to dry the skins out.
2. Leaving some wet layers in there with my googles so that as soon as I put the googles on for the descent the next day they frooze white inbetween the lenses.
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I think there could be a whole thread on kit to take touring and the logistics etc etc
Still remember quite a while back when we were doing our first week long hut to hut tour in S Tyrol, and we'd dropped back down into a tiny resort as our intended route was way too dangerous, we were heading to the Martin Busch aka Herman Goering as it was known in the late 30's and our guide picked up the packs of two of my mates and could not believe how heavy they were and then like a Sergeant major he went through the packs telling them what they actually needed and then throwing out anything he thought they didn't*, still can't remember what happened to all the stuff - think they kept in in a hotel for us and it was picked up on our return ??
*Mate was on a split board and he was carrying enough spares for every kit failure possibility
That's the beauty of merino, just one set needed and by the end of the week, it's still good for another two or three weeks without stinking !
By the way those trousers arrived yesterday and are really good, just the ticket for spring touring - and not black which is so important when the sun is out!!
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cfm/product/rab-exodus-pants/fuseaction/products.detail/code/17240090/id_colour/123/group/85/level/2
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FAQ
so therefore i am thinking that either of those skis will hopefully go all the way through the progression 
