 Poster: A snowHead
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It does actually work quite well here.
They stand by various slow signs waving at people going (or at least they think so) fast or out of control. If you slow down/acknowledge them they give you a friendly greeting. If you completely ignore them, they radio the next guy down who'll pull you over when you reach him/her. If you ignore them the safety boss and/or ski patrol are waiting for you at the bottom (fairly hard to avoid in Whistler - unless you are snowball's mate).
All seems fair enough to me. No need far radar guns breathalyzers, just a bit of common sense and courtesy - if you lacking this ther is someone there to 'help' you with it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Cynic wrote: |
My suggestion would be to put the FIS 10 rules of sking on the back of every lift pass, I draw you attention particularly numbers 9 and 10
•You are obliged by law to offer help and assistance in the event of any accident.
•You are also obliged by law to give your personal details in the event of an accident, whether you caused it, witnessed it or assisted at it. |
Whose law? AFAIK FIS doesn't have legal jurisdiction in most countries although they might think they should.
Looks like I'm going to jail for everytime I've skied past someone who has fallen over.
(Not to say that I don't help if it looks serious, isolated, I'm in best position to recover equipment etc etc)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That of France, not confined to behaviour on the ski slopes.
Can't see the point in putting a list of rules on the back of a lift pass though - a) no-one would read it and b) if you made it small enough to fit on the back of a lift ticket, no-one would be able to read it even if they wanted to.
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I can imagine the local gendarmarie being delighted with a deluge of people reporting in pigeon Franglais everytime they've seen someone crash from the chairlift. "He etais sur the piste rouge and porte un purple fartbag. Je ne sais quoi whether he etais hurt." or maybe they satisfyy their obligations by reporting to the ticket windows at the end of the day?
(& yes I know that's not the spirit of the law)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In Italy I've seen 'Polizia' on the piste and 'Carabinieri' - they've got skis which say it and uniform ski suits - they reassure me that everythings safe. My brother lives in California and they ski at Tahoe and around, where he's been speed radar gunned on an empty slope, and reprimanded for some mild swearing! He reckons they're more like the fun police over there and yearns for some good old European freedom.
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fatbob, pigeons can't talk. Are you sure you don't mean parrot?
daveyladboy, the mere sight of an Italian policeman makes you think everything's safe? You haven't driven in Italy, have you? 
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Cynic wrote: |
My suggestion would be to put the FIS 10 rules of sking on the back of every lift pass, I draw you attention particularly numbers 9 and 10
•You are obliged by law to offer help and assistance in the event of any accident.
•You are also obliged by law to give your personal details in the event of an accident, whether you caused it, witnessed it or assisted at it. |
Whose law? AFAIK FIS doesn't have legal jurisdiction in most countries although they might think they should.
Looks like I'm going to jail for everytime I've skied past someone who has fallen over.
(Not to say that I don't help if it looks serious, isolated, I'm in best position to recover equipment etc etc) |
Not sure in Europe of FIS's status but if you consider the 10 rules a "code of practice" set out by an "indusrty governing body", in the Uk that would carry significant weight if a case went to law.
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PS Really hate the signs that say slow down when you really need to cane it from there to avoid walking up hill 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How come ESF instructors are so bad at rule 5, maybe Le Pull Rouge confers special status?
I always wonder which rule trumps which - if I'm skiing in control but then the ESF snake pulls out blind on me and I happen to clip a kid, even if I'm not travelling fast mass means the kid could get bounced a fair distance. I'm pretty sure that in such circumstance a French court would side with the "expert" despite me doing nothing wrong.
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fatbob, Do you not also hold a pro licence or am I confusing you with someone else I voted for? If I am my apologies.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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No pro licence for me I'm afraid. My apologies to whoever you might have accidentally attributed my sometimes rambling & inconsistent opinions. I hope you forgive them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
if I'm skiing in control but then the ESF snake pulls out blind on me and I happen to clip a kid, even if I'm not travelling fast mass means the kid could get bounced a fair distance
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The only safe assumption is that the snake WILL pull out at the least convenient moment, and slow right down, or maybe stop and see what they do?
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...but if everyone stops or slows severely for everyone who is stopped in case they set off blind we get into an absurd situation...
I'm just identifying that while the FIS rules are individually sensible without a hierarchy there is no clear mechanism of establishing fault. I prefer to think of the piste as a road but clearly lots if users believe downhill user has absolute right of way even if static, or more likely don't even think then there is a problem.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Ayrshire Andy wrote: |
| skid & slide, couldn't agree more. The gangs (of men) who ski in the afternoon having had two, three or more times the alcohol at which it is dangerous to drive give me ther creeps. Particularly noticeable in the Dolomites last week. |
dude
have you been on a snowheads bash
much worse
even the next morning
ok bye
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Poster: A snowHead
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Any one who has issues with some level of policing on busy pistes can I suggest heli skiing in Alaska, no one has ever told me to slow down out there 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Voice of Treason wrote: |
| Ayrshire Andy wrote: |
| skid & slide, couldn't agree more. The gangs (of men) who ski in the afternoon having had two, three or more times the alcohol at which it is dangerous to drive give me ther creeps. Particularly noticeable in the Dolomites last week. |
dude
have you been on a snowheads bash
much worse
even the next morning
ok bye |
I think thats pretty dangerous to be honest, so much so that the most I ever drink is a shandy at lunch.
ok bye
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
How come ESF instructors are so bad at rule 5, maybe Le Pull Rouge confers special status?
I always wonder which rule trumps which - if I'm skiing in control but then the ESF snake pulls out blind on me and I happen to clip a kid, even if I'm not travelling fast mass means the kid could get bounced a fair distance. I'm pretty sure that in such circumstance a French court would side with the "expert" despite me doing nothing wrong. |
Just jump them. That's why they are wearing helmets. This is a 3D problem, and you are thinking in 2D.
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Monium sometimes that's only solution But nothing to worry about... it's not just ESF of France. These people have same attitude all over the World (at least in every single place I have been skiing in all these years). From France, to Italy, Austria, Germany, Scandinavia etc. etc.. They simply own the place, so it's perfectly fine if they line up 20 people behind them and make two zig-zag lines from left to right side of the course. Everyone else will wait anyway.
Before someone jumps on me... there are two things to be clear about. First... I really don't give a sh** if someone paid for lesson. I paid for my ticket too (here it doesn't really matter if I personally get it for free or not, but most of people pay full price for ticket), so I don't expect someone with instructor having some sort of priority over others (like some people would like to think they have since they paid for lesson). And second, I don't have problem waiting a bit, but I do have problem when you ski over the break and you have two lines of kids from left to right of course not leaving you single meter of course. If nothing else, those smart instructors might consider, it might be a bit dangerous for their clients to ski this way. Yes I know, I should ski slower, or even better, I shouldn't be skiing at all, but that's still not the point.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For all those complaining about ski instructors their pupils etc. They are on a teaching slope, they will be there every day of the year throughout the season, we were all there once, so slow down, overtake on the very edges of the piste; you could ski around the marker poles using as a pole plant exercise, or up and down the natural bank made between the poles on steeper slopes testing your skills of flex and extension; avoid colliding with those more fearful than yourself and your journey to wherever it was will not be slowed by an iota, your upper skills may have been refreshed?
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Cynic, I think we are talking about normal runs here, not teaching slopes (whatever they are, if you don't mean nursery slopes).
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Cynic, Since when did instructors restrict themselves to "teaching slopes"? Fair play the nursery slopes should belong to them but when they get on the big bad mountain, particulalry high traffic or narrow pinch point areas shouldn't they show some basic courtesy to other slope users? If nothing else the arrogant "no look" merge or set-off sets a terrible example for impressionable students.
I don't come across the problem that often as I try to avoid the sort of places where lessons might be but sometimes they are unavoidable, even if you are on the very edge you can't be sure all the snake will make the turn short of the edge. If I was the reckless blue slope bomber "piste security" would be keen on targetting then I imagine I'd have lots of near misses with snakes.
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snowball, Normal runs are teaching slopes, you progress from one slope to another until the person is proficient on red slopes. They are "teaching slopes" because they offer a consistent gradient for what you and the pupil needs to progress and are used by instructors in order for the purpose. An instructor is time driven and I'm afraid that if you have to get your ten people down a slope in medium traffic giving instruction and leading a consistent path, speed and rhythm there will be a tendency for we are coming out so avoid us as we are below you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cynic, One might suggest not taking your group so far from the meeting point if you can't safely get them back in time without setting off into and disrupting traffic. You seem to be claiming priority - so do instructors believe downhill skier is the only rule that matters?
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Cynic, not sure what point you're trying to make, but the rules apply to everyone using the slopes, for the benefit of everyone using the slopes. I'm not aware of a two-tier system in place. It's all very well saying that learners should be given plenty of room, and I always do when at all possible, especially when on blue and green home runs, but I must agree with some of the sentiments above and say that very often the groups (or their leader, specifically) don't do their cause any favours with the edge to edge snakes on reds where fast skiing is inevitable.
Take the case of someone walking across a zebra crossing without looking. They might get hit by a car, and the car may be at fault, but the pedestrian made the whole thing possible by not looking. It's very cold comfort sitting in a hospital bed saying "it was the cars responsibility to look out for me". There is a mutual responsibility, whichever way you view it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Double post
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 9-02-12 17:52; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, remember the hierarchy;
1 - Instructors
2 - Learners
3 - Nuns with baskets of kittens
4 - Experienced adults who return year after year and contribute massive amounts of money to the lift companies.
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Dr John,
4 - locals, mates of the mayor
5 - other citizens of the country
6 - Parisians
7- Unicorns and fluffy bunnies
8 - Foreign tourists who bring net wealth into economy (as they must be in the worng)
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You know it makes sense.
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for what its worth I think this is a positive step forward as there are some idiots around but it needs to be managed carefully. As an instructor I REALLY try and be concious of not taking up the whole of the piste when Im teaching here in Val d'Isere and try to lead by example. Yes most people do speed especially in learner areas even if they don't think they are going fast or being irresponsible - ultimately they often are.... when I used to work in both New Zealand and Canada I though the work the 'fun police' or the safety patrol used to do was FIRST rate. However we have to be careful we don't take away the free-spirited nature of the sport that, frankly, Europe is AWESOME at doing versus the over-protective north American attitude.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As I've said before ski school snakes are a total menace. It's inconsiderate to take up the entire width of a slope and leave no room for passing with a chain of 20 kids blindly following the tracks in front of them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, Dr John, gosh is everyone persecuting you, poor dears? Stop talking such rubbish, the pair of you. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lizzard, you really do have a way with you, don't you?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
a chain of 20 kids blindly following the tracks in front of them.
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at least the kids (and there aren't normally 20 of them, unless they have a second instructor bringing up the rear) are not bad at following the tracks. Adult ski school groups are far more random. I watch them from chairlifts. Possibly the two behind the instructor are making an attempt to follow the tracks (though they are rarely making any noticeable attempt to copy the beautiful text-book way the instructor is skiing) but most of them just do their own thing, carrying on their zig-zagging as though the instructor were invisible.
If it's too difficult to pass them, on a busy slope, then slow down and admire the scenery, or do 360s, or ski on one leg, or listen to your music. And chill. It's not the 0740 from Woking to Waterloo.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pedantica, why, thank you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, my pleasure
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
If it's too difficult to pass them, on a busy slope, then slow down and admire the scenery, or do 360s, or ski on one leg, or listen to your music. And chill. It's not the 0740 from Woking to Waterloo. |
+1
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Lizzard, Have you never wondered what that near permanent whooshing noise above your head is?
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If they are snaking across the bloomin piste then they cant be going very fast, so slow down go past them then speed up again ???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
1 - Instructors
2 - Learners
3 - Nuns with baskets of kittens
4 - Experienced adults who return year after year and contribute massive amounts of money to the lift companies.
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Correction
1 Trainers
2 - Instructors
3 - Learners
4 - Nuns with baskets of kittens
5 - Experienced adults who return year after year and contribute massive amounts of money to the lift companies and should take more lessons.
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Cynic, how would you feel about an instructor who witnessed a serious collision but ignored the injured party lying on the piste because his lesson finished in 5 minutes ?
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FAQ
My sister said she skied past pretending not to know her lad, who was about 6 at the time.
) and he had no problem avoiding me. He was moving fast but was entirely in control, luckily for me.