 Poster: A snowHead
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I would appreciate other members input as in the market to purchase but am interested in feedback from folk whoi have them or sell them.
Which one do I get?
Having deployed my abs along side the snowpulse my basic observations are:
SP inflates quicker and appears to give more protection to neck/head
Abs use a pyro det technique that appears more reliable and there is more visibility
I have used abs (escape 15) for the last 5 years and the backpack seemed to clatter/bounce about?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 5-02-12 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Snowpulse has head on top tech which will turn you face up. Can make a big difference.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did a bit of research and have gone for the snowpluse. Used it now for a couple of days and am pleased with it, I was worried how comfortable the thick straps would be but they are fine. There is a recall on the old air filled canisters, the ones with a gauge so avoid old stock. The new ones are nitrogen filled and have to be returned once used and have no gauge.
The abs has the advantage of swappable sized bags, but the 22l fwt model I have will just do for almost everything short of hut based tours. Plus I don't need to remove it for every chairlift.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Tried both on, found the ABS fitted better (Snowpulse straps felt uncomfortable).
Had preferred the tech approach of the SP, but that seems (now) to be less of a bonus (having to return cartridges seems same as ABS).
My Vario fits quite well (waist strap is good), but fit not quite as good as my old Osprey (poss as ABS back is quite stiff/flat, compared to a normal daybag).
Chest strap is essential.
Suspect 'fit' is probably the biggest real difference.... not sure there is enough good data yet on which is really better 'for real', and whether any difference is material.
Vario approach clearly better if you either want to 'stay small', or maybe move on to 'day' trips or bigger.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I love my ABS Vario. The 15L is super small. Spare layer, lunch, h2o, first aid kit, shovel, probe and couple o' other bits fill it up quick. I also have the 30L, I thought about the 50L but realised I would fill it up, just because I could. I do switch between the 15L & the 30L which IMO is awesome.
Another "I like the idea of head up tech" but the snowpulse was brand new when I got my ABS. And I'm not sure how important it really is, I find it nteresting that the 3rd people to the market (BCA) did not investigate having similar technology.
Get the pack that fits you best > they get heavy so enjoy the most comfortable pack you can...
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I just got a Vario 18lt ultralight. Really snug low profile pack. Used the cartridge return voucher to get the 25lt sack for longer days out. I'm a touch below 5'10" and found that the small size fitted perfectly. Will be easy to wear on chairlifts as the side oriented pockets dont stick out like the ones on my Dakine pack.
The carbon cartridge is well worth the upgrade when buying new, it's a fair bit lighter.
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| parlor wrote: |
| "I like the idea of head up tech" but the snowpulse was brand new when I got my ABS. And I'm not sure how important it really is, I find it nteresting that the 3rd people to the market (BCA) did not investigate having similar technology. |
Could easily be a patent issue; such things usually are.
Worth noting that the Snowpulse "removable airbag system" (another patent issue; that's why the ABS Vario has been around for longer) doesn't do the head-on-top thing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have read stuff on the net and the plus for Snowpulse is the Head Up, whislt the plus for Abs is the 2 bags leave the victim being able to swim (on top of the snow!)
Either way an avalanche backpack is better than nothing.
I have ordered a vario base!! Then want a slim pack! 
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The piste patrollers in Paradiski all have ABS...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boredsurfing, So do I, and my OH and ski pals, can't comment on snow pulse but we're all v happy with our ABS's. Even better now the on flight issues seem to be sorted, airlines security are now v laid back about them. We all have 5L day packs and are worn on all lifts and are very light, can get h20, spare goggle lenses, extra layer, camera, choc, silver blanket, compass, batteries, sunnys and all we need it them - great kit!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| "I like the idea of head up tech" but the snowpulse was brand new when I got my ABS. And I'm not sure how important it really is, I find it nteresting that the 3rd people to the market (BCA) did not investigate having similar technology. |
Could easily be a patent issue; such things usually are.
Worth noting that the Snowpulse "removable airbag system" (another patent issue; that's why the ABS Vario has been around for longer) doesn't do the head-on-top thing. |
It wouldn't be hard to design something 'similar' with a different name and not be infringing on their copyright.
I have heard an argument that says once the Snowpulse is deployed it obscures your vision in a way that means you might not be able to 'escape the path' of a slide anyway.
My point is more, perhaps the research shows that it's not actually needed???
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| parlor wrote: |
| Serriadh wrote: |
| Worth noting that the Snowpulse "removable airbag system" (another patent issue; that's why the ABS Vario has been around for longer) doesn't do the head-on-top thing. |
It wouldn't be hard to design something 'similar' with a different name and not be infringing on their copyright.
I have heard an argument that says once the Snowpulse is deployed it obscures your vision in a way that means you might not be able to 'escape the path' of a slide anyway.
My point is more, perhaps the research shows that it's not actually needed??? |
Selling something similar without infringing the patent is only as easy if you have a competent and well funded legal team, or if the company you are blatantly ripping off is small, poor or timid in comparison to you. I don't think any of these companies is big enough or rich enough to be able to gamble on such a thing; a failed patent lawsuit could easily put them in the red for years.
I understood your point, and it looks a little like Snowpulse probably feel that way too.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
| I understood your point, and it looks a little like Snowpulse probably feel that way too. |
I was surprised that Snowpulse have developed their 'removable system' not to include the 'head up technology', kinda furthers my feelings that it might not be that critical in the long run...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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parlor, and if the truth be known this is pointed me the ABS way, with SP using 2 systems it seems to me they have not decided on there critical path.
All that said I have a mates SP xtrem 22 here with me and is a well made backpack, I guess we are splitting hairs, but I started the post to gauge peoples opinions.
Without a doubt something is better than nothing, but I feel abs ticks more boxes than SP however the Pro Rider 15 system is excellent in my opinion but will that carry on or go in the future. With Mammut now owning SP it will be interesting
Cheers for now and roll on the arrival of the Vario next week!!!!!! and then get down the couloirs and do the pow. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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roche1800, I believe that both the 15 lt and the 18 lt ultralight are fairly comfy for chairs whilst still being able to carry avi kit, a light jacket and some food. Need to try it with the water bladder in yet though... that might be pushing it.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 10-02-12 0:21; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Scarpa, cheers for the info, what I would like to know - which is the slimmest backpack for the vario, if I am correct there differnce between the 15l & 18l is the height?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For information, the SP FWT does not need to be removed ( just) for a chairlift, I would take it off for fast cranky one. It is very well made. After five days use the shoulder straps have softened and are quite comfortable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just to put the record a little straighter on the tech and also the patent issue.
Snowpulse some 3 to 4 years ago tried to launch a system like the Vario, it had to be removed from the market as ABS said it infringed their patent.
The RAS or Removable airbag system, attaches to other backpacks as well as SP, which do not have the airbag contained within the shoulder straps, therefore it offers a more limited head up protection, than the other SP bags, but is still much better at doing this than the ABS.
The RAS system has not as far as I am aware infringed any Patent, its on the market and has been sold via retailers, this is when any patent infringment has to be raised, a company can not do it at a trade show!
Mammut now own Snowpulse therefore they have much bigger finacial muscle than ABS, which could get interesting, ABS are still a one product company even after some 25 years of trading.
Press release last week, is that for 2013 ABS are working with Ortovox on airbags, again this could get very interesting, I expect to get more info this weekend on ABS, Snowpulse and also BCA who also have a great range of packs for next year.
With regard to Airbags being used by ski patrol and guides in specific resorts, these are a direct supply from the manufactures, if you worked for the ski patrol would you say no to a free airbag whatever the logo was on the outside.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FWIW spent 7 days in Japan with the Snowpulse Prorider 15L, very comfortable and can fit in shovel, probe, H20, spare layer, skins, goggles etc...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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kitenski, although the rubber gloves almost came out at the airport on the way home when security noticed it...
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kitenski, although the rubber gloves almost came out at the airport on the way home when security noticed it...
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roche1800, Not much difference, the 18 is stripped down to the basics and I prefered the single large pocket with two side pockets for smaller items. Take a look at the site pics here... http://www.snowsafe.co.uk/abs-airbags.html
I used the return voucher for the test cylinder to get a 25lt sack as well, that will do for longer days away when carrying more kit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Perhaps not the purest data set I have ever seen, and possible slightly biased but this is interesting regarding "head up technology". From this TGR thread.
| WARI avalanche research institute wrote: |
We've done a lot of testing over the years using life sized 180 pound test dummies harnessed to avalanche airbags and about the only thing you see during an avalanche is the air bag riding above the surface of the snow.
Occasionally the snows part and we can see the test dummies inside the avalanches. They are most always uphill of the inflated air bag, meaning the air bags appear to be "leading" the test dummies down the mountain. This is assuming the dummy is fully engulfed and moving along inside a rapidly moving avalanche, and not a smaller avalanche without much snow or velocity.
As all avalanche air bag manufacturers harness their air bags to the user's shoulders and upper back, this indicates to us that the victim is traveling head first and face down during the avalanche. However, once the avalanche begins to slow down and "pile up" at the bottom of the slide, the test dummies can be pushed under the air bag, or to the front or sides of the air bag. We have even found test dummies sitting upright and looking back uphill, completely exposed on top of the snow after a ride of a mile or more.
Until the avalanche begins to subside we believe the user can plan on being dragged along by their shoulders and should continue to "swim", and what this really accomplishes is shedding snow off the victim as the avalanche tries to bury them. Once the slide begins to slow it is even more important to continue to try and shed snow. The air bag works best when it is traveling at speed, and once the snow begins to slow it becomes easier for snow to accumulate around and on top of the victim and the air bag begins to lose its effectiveness.
Test dummies are often found with very little of their body exposed, as they lack the ability to move or swim and shed snow at the end of the slide. |
Actually the thread is a good read, it's the type of discussion that we should be having on Snowheads.
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FAQ
wow that one slipped under my radar, maybe next season 
