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Technical question - why can't goggle lenses be made to carry a prescription?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My new specs are being made from lightweight lenses (I suspect these are not glass based). Goggles are made from plastic lenses that fit into frames. Assuming that the distance from the eye to the lens could be compensated for in the prescription - and the physicist in me says why not? Can someone that knows about lenses please explain why can't they make bespoke prescription versions of goggle lenses provided the user was prepared to bear the cost. They can do it for swimming goggles, why not for skiing googles? Even it you needed to have to have a design that permitted two separate lenses in the google.

We can put men into space and make complicated things like contact lenses, so what stops manufacturers from producing snow goggles with lenses built into them (not inserts - actually built into the lens that is made). The sheer number of questions on SH's alone makes me think there is a ready market for such a thing so why isn't an enterprising manufacturer doing it. I am also thinking of more than the Adidas Yoddai - proper ski goggle shaped things is what is needed.
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Quote:

They can do it for swimming goggles

My OH had prescription lenses in goggles for scuba diving, but they were normal lenses just kind of "stuck on" to the goggles. Very like the inserts I have in my ski goggles, which are perfect and can be switched between goggles. And a scuba diving mask (at least the kind he had) had a flat oval lens, which made sticking the vision bits on particularly easy. I understand that the difficulty with wrap around things is the shape/distortion at the sides. But I can't do a technical explanation.

The inserts work so well, and are so cheap, I can't imagine many people would be prepared to pay hugely more.
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As i understand it, Addidas are pitching their range being insert compatible. can't find the Edge and Wax catalogue I saw it in, but here's some info: http://www.vision3k.com/brands/adidas-ski-goggles/rx-clip-goggles.asp
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trickygibbon, pam w, when they say an 'insert' are they talking about something that is inside the lens on some sort of sprung loaded legs, or is it an actual plate that covers the surface of the entire lens.
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Several companies make goggles that can carry prescription inserts like this:



You can even move these ESS inserts between their goggles and sunnies.



Clear lenses shown for clarity. Also available in yellow, bronze and smoke.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 1-02-12 13:59; edited 2 times in total
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altis, That's what I had in mind and don't they look dreadful? Imagine 'seeing' the edges in your line of sight too - no, I don't think I could live with them.

I like the concept of the stick on lens - that sounds less intrusive I wonder if you can buy them.
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Quote:

an actual plate that covers the surface of the entire lens.

mine are similar to the ones illustrated, though the "frame" is white, so less noticeable. And the shape is a bit different - I had mine made in Albertville. A lens which coveres the surface of the entire lens would create all kinds of technical problems (which would be worse if your prescription was heavy/complicated) and would only fit one pair of goggles.

A new shop assistant in specsavers mistakenly took an order from me for a pair of prescription sunglasses with a "wrap around" style frame. when I went to pick them up, they were unwearable - all kinds of distortion round the edges (varifocals). A more senior assistant apologised and gave me my money back, saying those frames were not suitable.

I have only my distance prescription in my google inserts. They are brilliant - top vision all round. I'm very pleased with them. I don't "see" the edges of mine, any more than you would see the edges of a big pair of glasses. Just not a problem - take two seconds to get used to.
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The only way you could do it over such a large area (without the lenses becoming rediculously fat) is with a Fresnel lens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens

These are like those reversing aids you sometimes see stuck in the back window of vans. I imagine the distortion won't be pleasant.

Another solution that one of our party uses: large prescription photochromic glasses - hideously expensive but act as normal sunnies. Then fit OTG goggles when necessary.
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Megamum, good question! pam w refers to the benefits of inserts, but my French/skier optician is not a fan since those whose regular prescription specs are suceptible to steaming are unlikely to be aided by inserts - so the logic goes? Hence I was recommended to go for a helmet with visor. If these had not sold out, I'd probably have gone for a Hi Yellow visor for flat/low light with my regular glasses, and wear sun glasses (visor up) at other times. Cool Seemed a perfect solution potentially unless Megamum your question is answered positively which might provide another option.
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Colin Bell, I am a huge fan of the idea of the helmets with the visors (it is something I often suggest as an option) - I think they must offer an ideal solution. The trouble at the moment is swallowing my pride at the 'extra off of Top Gun' look, and wearing one. Cost wise they are not cheap - but then neither would a prescription lens solution be. Another advantage of a visor helmet is having your specs already there when visiting a restaurant etc. rather than having to carry them.

I've found the stick on lenses, small D shapes to provide a single area of magnification, not ideal - However, I wonder why they can't extend the concept to a larger complete lens.
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I rarely have problems with goggles steaming up. If I'm exerting myself (e.g. skating uphill for a bit) then I have to remember to stick them up on my helmet to start with. But that's true whether or not I have inserts in.

I can't remember how much my inserts were - around £50 I think. Given that my goggle lens is tinted, you have to be very close to see that there are inserts inside. Not that it bothers me anyway - I'm inside, looking out, and I'm not too bothered about people who are outside looking in. wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
A lens works because the front and back surface are not parallel. The stronger the lens the further away from parallel they have to be. To keep that difference up over the wide expance of a goggle lens they would probably end up being rediculously fat in the middle or at the edges. I imagine there would be extra distortions too because different eyes can look through the same part of the lens at different angles.
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Megamum, I'm a potential fan also but I recal a post last year where someone said of helmets with visors: "I've seen a few around and they all looked stupid. I've met a couple of people who had them, and they were both c0cks." I think that sort of comment is unhelpful to say the least. Since most ski gear is fashion gear, to single out functional helmets and not multi-coloured boots, boards, skis and clothing which might be functional but designed to attract attention seems unfair. It was only a few years ago when anyone in a helmet would have been laughed off the slopes. I'd wear a banana on my head if it protected me like a helmet, kept my head warm and enabled me to ski better.......now there's an idea! Smile
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum wrote:
Assuming that the distance from the eye to the lens could be compensated for in the prescription - and the physicist in me says why not?


Yes they can - that's why your prescription for contacts and glasses will be different.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Good question!
After they figure this out I want one for the car windscreen and bike helmet too! Laughing
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Colin Bell, My thoughts entirely, I must admit I am keeping half an eye out for a visored helmet at a reasonable price. I already use a comfortable helmet that I am happy with (and which had the added advantage of only costing £14) so there is a bit of me that baulks at the idea of replacing this with a hundred quid + touch for a once a year holiday. However, I can't shake the feeling that they are nirvana for spectable users hence keeping half an eye on deals. So if anyone sees any..........
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
To answer the original question I'm sure they can.

Is it commercially viable, given

i) contact lenses
ii) inserts
iii) OTG goggles

I'd say probably not. I'd don't get the idea of being able to see the edges of inserts in your field of vision being a particular issue, after all you have to be wearing pretty big Dame Edna spec for that not to be an issue in ordinary spec wearing.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My OH has a heavy prescription and was advised to choose relatively small spectacle frames, to avoid the edges being too thick (and that was even with expensive lenses which were thinner anyway).
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It's quite amazing what you can find http://en.red-dot.org/2813.html?&cHash=f86fd15ad7052c199d9d63b9d29b6b31&detail=7922

I wonder how many of those have sold!!
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Quote:

they would probably end up being rediculously fat in the middle


Short-sight (which is what most people would want corrective goggles for) is corrected by concave lenses, not convex. So they would be fat at the edges, not in the middle.
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I use a dainese v jet touch helmet with visor. It works very well with my glasses. I have two visors for it, One orange/yellow for flat light days and one dark for sunny days. It takes about 3 mins to change the lenses. I normally where contacts but some days my eyes just wont let me. So thats when the dainese comes out, and it works very well.
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Friend bought a Maserati with a prescription windsreen once, sure goggles would be a doddle.
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Megamum, less "top gun" than others, but how much? I couldn't seem to find out from the indigo website, but perhaps I'm not trying hard enough!
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Just a quick bit of advice, my 9 year old daughter is shortsighted -3.50.. We are going skiing for the first time in April. I was toying with the idea of swimming goggles inside her helmet, but after seing this thread, will it make sense for her to wear her glasses in an open faced helmet with a visor? .... I dont expect she will be going off-piste or too fast etc rolling eyes rolling eyes rolling eyes however i want her to be really comfortable & not have to worry about her being able to see.. Any thoughts & recommendations will be greatly appreciated. cheers James Very Happy Very Happy
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I've found it 160 Euros so NOT cheap. It's on this page http://www.indigosnow.de/category-18-DE-2.html about half way down, I found it was easier to do a page search for Visor. It's worth bearing in mind that for £108 you can buy a Bolle helmet with two replaceable visors http://www.outdoor-ranger.co.uk/bolle-slide-visor-ski-helmet-p-15871.html?currency=GBP&language=gb

Unfortunately I can't justify spending that sort of cash on either!
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grandunion, she will require tinted lenses or goggles of some description - I don't think she will find it comfortable to ski without some tinted lens protection. I spotted some kids visor helmets today - I'll dig out a link
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
MEGAMUM, thanks very much...
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Here we go:

http://www.osbeskihelmets.com/shop/category/ski-helmet-clearance/proton-i-kids/

Now at least you have an alternative. That's the one I spotted, but there may be others.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
grandunion, apart from the visor suggestion, which should work well if you can find the right thing, and it's not too pricey, lots of kids where goggles over specs. It's a case of trying on goggles over the glasses - I found that some which claimed to be OTG didn't go over my glasses but others, which didn't make any such claims, did!

Of course they also need to be compatible with the particular helmet, so it's a bit of a faff getting it right. I don't think swimming goggles inside a helmet would work well - they might well get steamed up, and she might well also get teased about it, which would be a bit miserable for her.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The more I look at these visored helmets the more I think they are solution for spectacle wearers, I've just bought a new supply of contacts and have decent goggles that I had better use this year, but I think I might save up and treat myself for next year.
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I think the visored helmet may be an option, my only concern , is that when i have worn similar on motorbikes you can get a lot of wind under the visor causing me to cry rolling eyes
However, i doubt she will be reaching the speeds i got to..Thanks for the advice guys
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi, having always hated 'big' goggle solutions, I bought a system of (prescription) lenses from this company:-

http://www.uksportseyewear.co.uk/product.php/130/ski-glasses-goggles-interchangeable-lenses

I have standard sunglass lenses for normal conditions (I use them for driving and cycling) and the yellow lens + gasket seal + stretch band for low-light skiing.

I think the system works really well - they can also be used with clear lenses for sports (squash).

Cheers
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grandunion,
Contact lenses are my solution. I played/experimented with just about every type of goggle/glasses insert for over ten years, and they are all basically cr*p. Either go with contact lenses, or (if you can afford it financially and accept the risk) get your eyes lasered.
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RobW, grandunion is asking about a 9 year old - so lasering not an option!
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grandunion, If you decide to look at some over the glasses goggles (OTG) then I would advise letting her try some on over her helmet and specs before buying. I have tried OTG goggles and find them quite uncomfortable over the arms of the specs and I find (though others don't) that my glasses steam up inside the goggles. For that reason I use prescription sunglasses - which might also be an option for her, but there is precipitation in the air - fog, snow, sleet - even rain!!! I find that my prescription sunnies do steam up very easily and are a pain in the neck. I still would like to try the visored helmets, but even though I haven't I think they could be a good bet for a child that wears glasses, as it should get round many of the problems. Someone also posted once who had tried a visored helmet and they reckoned that they were absolutely brilliant.
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Megamum, please seek out anti-fog spray. It works.
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blackwellm, cheers, so does a shot of dish washing liquid when polished up, but I just find the solution of goggles over glasses to not be what I am looking for. I've tried it and even with anti-fogging solutions, it is cumbersome, uncomfortable and difficult to remove the goggles without dislodging the specs. Contacts work with traditional ski goggles, but for a 9 year old are probably not a solution - though grandunion, might ask their optician if contacts can be purchased for a child for short term use I guess - I don't know if you can get contacts for kids or not.

FWIW I hate my specs, but I am not allowed to wear contacts long term. As RobW, agrees none of the solutions are ideal bar contacts, and I couldn't stand to get my eyes lasered. My solution is prescription sunnies on blue sky days and contacts and goggles for others. The draw back to the prescription sunnies is having to carry clear lenses when I go into a bar/restaurant for any length of time or else risk looking decidedly odd and thinking that I'm sitting in the dark.

All those folks with 20/20 vision probably don't realise how lucky they are!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
stevomcd wrote:
Quote:

they would probably end up being rediculously fat in the middle or at the edges.


Short-sight (which is what most people would want corrective goggles for) is corrected by concave lenses, not convex. So they would be fat at the edges, not in the middle.


There, I've completed the quote for you.
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My daughter had her eyes lasered - it was her 21st birthday present, which didn't feel very nice at the time, but she now has 20/20 vision and though it was actually quite painful at the time (and they gave her codeine, which she had told them she was allergic to, so she was sick too rolling eyes ) it's been fantastic. she did it primarily for water sports, but it pays dividends skiing too.

she was very motivated; I'm not sure I'd get it done.
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pam w, One of my customers is an ex-GP. I once asked him why he'd never had laser treatment, he said there was too much to go wrong for a non-essential operation.
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