 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I managed to persuade a reluctant rescuer that it would be perfectly acceptable to take her down to the nearest station on the Gornergrat Railway on a blood wagon
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you beast. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Fattes13 wrote: |
I once heard that the Austrian's do not persue Heli evactuation bills excessivley. Mind you it was an Austrian that told me so how true it is  |
Worked with a guy in St Anton who's a competitive 'freestyle paraglider' in summer. The season I was working there, he was practising some sort of trick, spilled the air form the wing, and feel about 50 feet to the ground. Turned out he was perfectly fine, but someone had seen the fall and called the emergency services, and he ended up being landed with a several thousand euro bill for a service he hadn't needed.
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| RobinS wrote: |
| The Austrian Alpine Club rescue element of thier insurance for europe is for €25,000, and with 415,000 members I would assume is going to be generally adequate for summer or winter rescues. |
Yup, covers you all year, and as far as I understand it also covers repatriation to whichever country you are a permanent resident of - for something like €21 a year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick as I have assumed I've had cover via Carte Neige for summer hiking and mountain biking.
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No, I don't think you have - it was I who got the wrong end of the stick as I was just thinking of it as related to accidents skiing etc. Sorry for any alarm! |
phew! I was working on the assumption that Carte Neige was doing the same sort of thing as the Austrian Alpine Club, though I was surprised too when I initially discovered summer mountain sports were covered, as the word 'Neige' does make you think it's wintersports cover only. It was the summer aspect that made me carry on being double insured for the winter last year (which I'm really glad I was as it turned out because my UK insurer wasn't as flexible as yours, as I've said before).
Getting stung for a helicopter bill on top of injury would be horrendous - I often go hiking alone, in places away from the chairlifts or out of season when the chairlifts aren't running, so I want to know I can call someone to come and get me without enquiring about the costs first. I hiked with a guest one season who was in the army and who gave me loads of advice of what to do if I got stuck up the mountain overnight - I just kept thinking 'yeah, I'm going phone for help!'
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| miranda wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
The moral of this story, never accept help from a stranger in France or Switzerland without first checking how much it will cost. |
In this woman's case, something like Carte Neige would have covered her for the helicopter wouldn't it? |
It might well have done given she was walking. Non one would send a helicopter for her but it would have paid the ambulance.
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I often go hiking alone, in places away from the chairlifts or out of season when the chairlifts aren't running, so I want to know I can call someone to come and get me without enquiring about the costs first.
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good point. I do that, too. Maybe I should re-think my decision not to get Carte Neige.  It's cheap enough, but having had so many visitors to look after at the beginning of the season I scarcely had any time to get into the village and find the Club des Sports open (it's not always....) and sort it out.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Non one would send a helicopter for her but... |
What would the difference be? Someone sent a helicopter for her without Carte Neige, why would they have not sent a helicopter for her with it? And Carte Neige covers you for rescue and hiking....
(actually, I'm going to phone Carte Neige before the summer and find out!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was under the impression that if you purchased insurance with your lift pass in any european country then this would also cover the costs of helicopter evacuation
Can anyone advise if my assumption is correct?
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| miranda wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Non one would send a helicopter for her but... |
What would the difference be? Someone sent a helicopter for her without Carte Neige, |
No someone sent her an ambulance which had to do about 1-2km to collect her from just the other side of the (non-existent) border, because it crossed the border a 50 euro trip became a 1000 euro one. They would only send a helicopter for you in France if you were in a remote spot and in an extremely serious condition.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I often go hiking alone, in places away from the chairlifts or out of season when the chairlifts aren't running, so I want to know I can call someone to come and get me without enquiring about the costs first.
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good point. I do that, too. Maybe I should re-think my decision not to get Carte Neige. It's cheap enough, but having had so many visitors to look after at the beginning of the season I scarcely had any time to get into the village and find the Club des Sports open (it's not always....) and sort it out. |
You should look at the Vieux Campeur insurance too, covers you if you fall off a chair in a bar in Italy for example.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You should look at the Vieux Campeur insurance too
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thanks. I will.
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davidof, ah, sorry, didn't read properly and thought she was being charged 1k for a helicopter, not a plain old ambulance from the wrong side of the track! I would (obviously) hope to never get so lost/broken that it would require a helicopter, because I do appreciate that they are only called out when absolutely necessary. Still, handy to have the fairly cheap annual Carte Neige in case... but will definitely look into that "falling off a bar stool" insurance too... 
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You know it makes sense.
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I can vouch for the fact that in France in the ski areas the helicopters are owned by the Communes and I was told by a woman from the Mountain Rescue that it is free. I should know as my wife was just helicoptered off the mountain at St Gervais near Chamonix, as pam w will know. BUT you do have to pay for the mountain rescue team who come along first with their sledge to try to help. Cost in Feb 2015 450 Euros but should be covered by Insurers. Lots of scaremongering but people shouldn't worry too much about big helicopter bills at least if they are going to France.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| archers wrote: |
| ...Lots of scaremongering but people shouldn't worry too much about big helicopter bills at least if they are going to France. |
Or BC.
But people like to buy insurance, and I like to invest in insurance companies.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not saying they shouldn't have insurance as we still needed an air ambulance back to UK, and even 450 euros for ski patrol is worth having back. And anything else can happen too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@archers, I am not sure that is generally true. I am fairly sure that although Alpe d'Huez, I think jointly with Les Deux Alpes, operate a rescue / emergency helicopter you / your insurers will be charged for the use of it. Generally they only recover you to a meeting place with an ambulance and onward "travel" is in that, which you / your insurers will also have to pay for. Having said that I did have a scale of charges somewhere which I will try to dig out, and the helicopter charge, although like a sledge recovery was dependent on which zone you had the accident in, was in the hundreds, not thousands. I think there are also differences as to whether you are within the resort boundaries, whether you are recovered by the piste security sevice or by the emergency services (in which case I think it is free but I do not truly know). By the way this thread was 2 years old !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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2,500 CHF from piste above Grimentz to Sion Hospital dec 2014
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| Quote: |
We were in Zermatt for Christmas in 2008. We had chatted with the chalet girl about the cost of heli-evac (can't remember why) and she said that it would be about £5000 normally but double in Christmas Day.
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I had to be helicoptered off the Theodul Glacier once and as I recall it was 75 Francs (not pounds) a minute for the time the helicopter was in the air. It was an incredibly slick operation and from the time they left base in Zermatt, to picking me up (and it wasn't totally straightforward ) and getting back to base was only about 37 minutes or so (felt like longer at the time). I then got taken by ambulance to the local doctor initially, where I had x rays and got crutches etc. Anyway, the whole lot came to about £1600 or so which I actually thought was not bad for the attention and treatment I got. It was a last minute trip and I had bought a post office travel policy, they were brilliant I have to say, no quibbles about anything and paid up everything bar a £50 excess.
I'm not sure where the £5000 came from you were told about but it sounds a bit exaggerated...
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That article is interesting as it talks about an American who fell into a crevasse and got charged 685 euros for the rescue (he's blogged about his misadventure here if you are interested http://snowbrains.com/story-survival-falling-50-feet-crevasse-chamonix/ ). Usually the PGHM would have got him out for free but they were busy so it was the pisteurs from GM who did the job hence the charge.
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@hang11, it's the same for the UK as we have the NHS, RAF, Mountain rescue etc and is paid for by wages, and not many foreigners come to the UK for mountain sports in comparison.
I would suggest that the majority of people who use NZ's mountains are either from NZ or Australia and there maybe a mutual agreement there.
It's different in mainland europe because I guess the amount of tourists/number of people going off piste or getting injured on piste is so high in comparison it would cost the respective governments hundreds of millions of euro to subsidise or tax people. Plus then you would also then have locals being taxed for all of the inconsiderate foreigners getting hurt, lost or trapped on the mountains and that would not go down too well either.
There are lots of other elements to it also like local government and lift companies, I guess by increasing the number of stakeholders more people want to get paid and thus arise the charges.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| AthersT wrote: |
| @hang11, it's the same for the UK as we have the NHS, RAF, Mountain rescue etc and is paid for by wages |
Mountain rescue in the UK are volunteers. Local climbers, mostly. Put some money in the collecting tin sometime.
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@dogwatch, Okay. Never skiied in the UK except the fridges and dry slopes. However, I am known to occasionally go walking in the peaks/lake district or north west highlands so I will google for their website.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In Slovenia mountain rescue and heli evac is free. Mountain rescuers are volunteers organised in alpine clubs, and heli rescue is covered by the state.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My friend was needed a helicopter rescue in the Vallon d'arby in Verbier last year. 3500 CHF for a 200 m lift... When he got home, he got another bill for 400 CHF.
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| Your Still NEED insurance. |
I think you'l find that if you "need" insurance then you'll find it very difficult to get. Insurance companies make their money out of people who don't need insurance, and try to minimise the payments to people who do.
I hate this self perpetuating twaddle peddled (pedalled, paddled?)  by insurance companies and people in the industry saying that you NEED travel insurance to go abroad. It's just scaremongering profiteering.
If it's likely to cost around £200 for an annual policy. It costs a minimum of £2000 for a heli evac. Bear in mind that if you do have a claim them the ins co will do everything to try to get out of paying.
Just how many times a decade are you planning to have an accident?
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You know it makes sense.
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@TheGeneralist, hmm, great points. I wish my father had saved his £100 quid when he had an emergency quad cardiac bypass while on holiday in the US - being an £80,000 bill in the end.
Money down the drain, that was.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's perfectly true, of course, that if you are normally prudent and sensible individual it makes financial sense to insure yourself. That is always the case; insurance companies only exist to make money. Provided you have the means to pay a big bill if necessary. And the biggest, of course, could be a third party claim. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I wish my father had saved his £100 quid when he had an emergency quad cardiac bypass while on holiday in the US - being an £80,000 bill in the end.
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Goodness, you know someone who made use of their holiday insurance. And you're piping up on a forum to tell everyone about it. Just like the insurance companies want you to. All going according to plan so far. Anyone else got a story to tell about someone they know who got money from their travel insurance? I'm sure there are a few more out there.
What we won't hear from is the hundreds of snowheads who've paid thousands of pounds over the years and had zero payout in that time. Which again is to be expected. Because that's how insurance companies make their money and that's how they like it.
I'll have to admit that I do think that medical insurance is probably the one worth having if you're going to America or somewhere outside EHIC land. Rescue insurance I'm really not convinced about. And as for people who insure their ski equipment and baggage. Utterly barmy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would disagree with some of the comments presented above on France. The following link from the Tignes official website shows that helo rescue is €55 a minute (there are some fixed minimum rates below this). Top tip a Carte Neige is only about £50 and covers helo rescue (no ifs or buts or phone calls from the piste providing you have your licence on you).
http://www.tignes.net/data/template_entetecontenu/23981-secours.pdf
(Sorry its in French as the UK translation is out of date)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@TheGeneralist, yeah, well, you know better, clearly.
I'm reasonably sure I'm about par in terms of cost/peace of mind/ and reimbursement.
You choose your own route.
And. I'm expecting a €400 cheque from carte neige in the next few days. For a €50 policy, I'm pleased.
Our general travel insurance is (so far) excellent and courtesy of a not inexpensive credit card. We've yet to get through a year in which I am reasonably sure we haven't profited. This may be why the bank in question no longer offers the card to new clients.
While self insuring is an entirely valid idea, for most people it's economic nonsense.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Rega charged £5,000 ten years ago but that was a complicated accident summer alpine mountaineering above Grindlewald. It also involved a doctor on the heli, plus a rescue guy on end of cable as ground too difficult to land. Also flight to hospital at Interlaken. BMC covered it all, but I still saw all the invoices. Make sure you're covered for what you expect to be doing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It makes sense to insure against risks you couldn't afford to pay for. Your house burning down. Major heart surgery in America. Mowing down a New Yorker in a moment of carelessness on the piste.
I don't take extra years insurance on domestic appliances and I don't insure personal baggage, ski gear, money, delayed departure etc etc on holiday. Just medical and third party, really.
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I was in saas fee a couple of years ago, coming down on the last funicular of the day when it broke down. They ended up walking the full train load of people out through the mid point exit ( a giant corrugated pipe straight out of a Dr evil lair) onto the side of the mountain, and then evacuated all ~100 of us with three helos - assume they got a good bulk discount rate!
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extra years insurance on domestic appliances
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I steadfastly did not ever buy this, as I know the nephew of the bloke who first "invesnted" it in the UK. He was "forced" to retire to the Isle of Man not long afterwards having trousered immense sums.
However... for the rentals, if you take the extended 5 year warranty, Darty provide a helpline for clients to use (!) and guarantee a 48 hour repair or replace. And if you then buy a replacement machine in the 6th or 7th year (by our experience, more than likely) they'll give you ~66% of the cost of the extended warranty as a discount on the new appliance. Which, frankly, is well worth it IMV.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In days so long ago you bought domestic appliances in actual shops, I was getting the hard sell on extended warranty. "What would you do if it broke down, sir?" I said I'd pay to have it fixed. "Pay to have it fixed?" he repeatedly back to me incredulously. His tone was as though I'd made an indecent suggestion. At that time I believe the washing machines and freezers were pretty much loss-leaders for the extended guarantees.
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@dogwatch,
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| the washing machines and freezers were pretty much loss-leaders for the extended guarantees |
Plausible!
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