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Winter Tyres end March, German roads?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Before anyone lambasts me for ressurecting the old winter tyres threads, I have just one specific question, and having trawled the web can not find an answer. Can anyone help?

I am planning to drive to St Anton last weekend in March for the week for some spring snow skiing, via Rotterdam and down through Holland and Germany to Bregenz and up the motorway to Arlberg, 80% of the driving is therefore in Germany. I have winter tyres on my wifes car for UK, and always use this car locally in bad weather (Yorkshire Dales in winter), but its too small to comfortably drive to the Alps and I want to bash down the Autobahns in my company car (BUT it doesnt have winter tyres), its larger and a more appealing prospect at 80mph, but is it legal end March?

The likelyhood of snow end March is pretty small, and the thought of spending £600+ for a set of Vredsteins for a nice spring drive to the Alps isn't very appealing, the question is whats the law, and is there an end date, or is it just when the weathers bad so you need to have them on whatever?

Would appreciate some advice from any seasoned German/ Austrian based SH's, and thoughts on the new law relative to the end of season?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The law in Austria is from 1. November to 15. April when winter conditions exist. i.e. if the weather is fine then you don't need them. It's unlikely that in late March you will need winter tyres but anything can happen with the weather. You could wait until nearer the time and then get a hire car with winter tyres if there's plenty of snow around.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
But in Germany there is no date restriction - you always need winter tyres in snowy conditons whatever the time of year.
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Yes German winter tyre law appears to be slightly different from Austrian.

It looks like ......

Summer tyres with chains in Germany are not deemed acceptable in winter conditions.

An initial fine of €40 rising to €80 if the flow of traffic is hampered. Plus you could recieve a point on your licence.

http://www.warum-winterreifen.de/winterreifenpflicht/rechtslage-winterreifenpflicht/index.php
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Markymark29, I live in the Chiemgau mountains and commute to the west of Munich for my job. I will not put my summer tyres on until the end of April at the earliest! As DB says it is the weather at the time that determines the conditions for changing to summer tyres not a date. We quite often have late snow storms, so any time before Easter is ia no-no as far as we are concerned.
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Thanks for all your posts guys, reinforced my thoughts..........I need to get some winter tyres, knew that anyway just didnt want waste my money if everone else was driving about on summer ones!

Cheers
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

£600+ for a set of Vredsteins

that's a big marginal cost for the sake of spending two days driving a bigger car!! Plus additional fuel, presumably.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w, Yes, your right its only a small lack of comfort and a few kmph slower..........the smaller car is looking ever more attractive!!
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Markymark29, treat yourself to some new music to play. wink
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Basically our 'winter tyre laws' are slightly different state by state.

However, the general rule that the whole of the country (including the police force) applies is, Winter tyres are required if snow is on the ground, and anytime you have an accident between October and Easter. So, basically, if I don't have winters on and get in accident, my insurer won't be coughing up. The police aren't interested unless theres snow on the ground, in which case if youre interfering with other traffic / making a tit out of yourself they'll stop you and check your tyre has a snowflake.


Austrias a whole different country though, funily enough.
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Another difference between Germany and Austria appears to be the tyre tread depth. In Germany you can get away with 1.6mm, although the German Automobile Associations recommend circa 4mm which is in line with Austria.

Esco,
Are M&S tyres without the mountain / snowflake symbol accepted in Germany?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
According to the German Embassy in London, yes:

http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/london/en/04/Transport/Winter__Tyres.html
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DB, Are you sure about that depth? My garage told me 4mm and the ADAC has just done a comparison of effectiveness comparing 4mm against 7mm. The results were obvious, but the differences in performance interesting enough to make the ADAC consider petitioning for an increase in the minimum depth permitted.

Quote:
Are M&S tyres without the mountain / snowflake symbol accepted in Germany?


According to the ADAC, yes they are but they must be a recognised accredited make with at least one snowflake symbol. Implying there are a)dodgy cheap manufacturers who just plonk the symbol on any old cheapo tyre and b)that there are all year tyres available with more than one snowflake symbol.

Quote from the specifications published in the November 2011 ADAC members magazine, page 16:

"Bei winterlichen Wetter müssen Winterreifen oder Ganzjahrsreifen aufgezogen werden"

(In wintry weather winter tyres or All-Year tyres have to be used)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Samerberg Sue,

Quote:
Auch auf die Profiltiefe achten
Nicht nur auf die geeigentet Bereifung ist zu achten.
Das Gesetz schreibt außerdem eine Mindestprofiltiefe von 1,6 Millimeter vor. Der ADAC rät jedoch aus Sicherheitsgründen sogar zu vier Millimeter Profiltiefe. Kleiner Tipp: Stecken Sie eine 2-Euro-Münze ins Profil. Der silberne Rand sollte dabei verdeckt sein. Dann ist ihr Reifenprofil noch ausreichend.


http://www.warum-winterreifen.de/winterreifenpflicht/rechtslage-winterreifenpflicht/index.php
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Wereas road toll tickets are checked by zee Austrian Police. I actually suspect winter tyres on foriegner's cars are not actively checked unless there is a problem (e.g. traffic build up, esp. on the vehicles that cause a traffic jam or an accident). Loads of foreigners get away with it but those that run into bother are pretty stuffed. As the laws in Germany are fairly new, more and more cars have winter tyres which means those without winter tyres are now significantly more likely to run up the bum of the car in front when it bakes - then along comes zee Police and checks your tyres then, the insurnace comany(ies) refuses to pay. Durex are not the only rubbers that save you getting caught out by the white stuff. snowHead
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB,

Quote:
Durex are not the only rubbers that save you getting caught out by the white stuff.
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A lot of Dutch now travel this way since the new German Law & just carry old chains for Austria Happy

You could alternatively. Drive. Rottterdam > Belgium > Metz France, Basel/Zurich > St Anton.

In my experience winter tyres & chains are rarely needed at the end of March in St Anton. Any snow that does fall on the roads is gone/melted within a couple of hours.

FYI.

You can pick up train fares for as little as 34Euros from Rotterdam to Zurich !
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stanton wrote:
A lot of Dutch now travel this way since the new German Law & just carry old chains for Austria Happy


Driving back from Saalbach to Vienna yesterday I saw two massive holds-ups where the traffic was tailing back many miles. Both were caused by Dutch cars. The first tailback looked like they had chains but didn't have a clue how to install them. The second was a rear wheel drive BMW. They were trying to push it so I suspect they didn't have chains or they would have put them on. The police were trying to get through but the road wasn't wide enough and the tailback was at least 15 miles. Hundreds of people were held up getting to their holiday destination because the Dutch can't be bovered with winter tyres.
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DB wrote:
[Hundreds of people were held up getting to their holiday destination because the Dutch can't be bovered with winter tyres.


For most it is just one week a year trip. Winter Tyres for just one week is a huge expense & dont forget the Germans introduced this nationwide law just before last season without any realistic notification period. Dutch garages were hardly likely to get their hands on 3 millions sets of Winter Tyres with only 2 weeks notice.

It freezes over prety much every winter in Holland and we manage to drive & even cycle on asphalt roads without them.

Its much cheaper for us to just take the fine. Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I live in NL on the DE border. So far this winter we've had 2 hours of snow, very odd.

I go to Germany on an almost daily basis so I have a definite interest in staying on the right side of the law but with every week which passes I think whew! 400 euros saved.

Anyway, Markymark - have you considered renting winter tyres rather than shelling out? Or, buying second hand? The reason I have no winter tyres this year is that I sold my car & winter tyres to some other sucker expecting snow which never arrived...
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I live on the South Coast of England (and so almost never really "need" winter tyres) and I'm driving to Austria so have bought a set of winter tyres. I can't quite understand the "if it doesn't snow I've saved some cash" thinking. Piece of mind on its own that I won't be caught out on my drive to the Alps is well worth the extra expense, especially with the nippers in the back. Even if it doesn't snow there proven to be more effective in temps below 7c (even here that is most nights during Winter) plus using them extends the life of your summer tyres.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Winter tyres are a pretty good investment for normal UK winter conditions anyway. Performance in the wet at low road temperatures is miles better than summer tyres, which I think justifies their use regardless of whether or not it snows. Plus as above, if you rotate with summer tyres it doesn't end up costing very much more overall, although winter tyres are a fair bit more expensive than equivalent summer tyres.

Markymark29, I'd fit winter tyres right now and keep them on until after your spring trip and then swap back to summer tyres and re-use the winter tyres again next winter. You'll easily get your money's worth out of them unless you change the car in the meantime.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
stanton wrote:
It freezes over prety much every winter in Holland and we manage to drive & even cycle on asphalt roads without them.

Yes sure, because Holland is as flat as a pancake. The two hold-ups were at the bottom of steeper inclines.

stanton wrote:
Its much cheaper for us to just take the fine. Very Happy

The fines are dirt cheap in Germany but in Austria they are more hefty. The Austrian Police also have the power to stop the offending vehicles from continuing their jouney. In the future I suspect the German and Austrian Police will clamp down on Dutch cars in deep winter conditions to keep the flow of traffic moving.
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