 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Snowheads....
Just a quickie...
When is the time right to change from a beginner ski to an intermediate ski? When did you change? As I'm improving I reckon it would be good to know when a change would be good and the positives and negatives.
Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When you start feeling like you are skiing a pair of cooked noodles it's time to upgrade 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hothoundz, Welcome to snowheads. I am not expert on skis, (both ways of reading that) but I might be able to help you. Most beginner skis are "soft" which means flexible. They give you plenty of stability going slowly and will snowplough easily. You start to notice their limitations as you go a bit quicker and start to use the edges of the ski rather than the flat bottoms. Incidentally, some quite decent skiers never get this far - it is amazing how well you can get around just by skidding, in which case it doesn't matter much what skis you are on!
If you are having lessons - and if you ar not, you could well be as I describe above- and are trying to roll your ankles into the slope and follow the cut of the edge as it turns you up the hill as well as turning by extending your legs then you are starting to use the working bits of the ski. It is about this point that the ski you are on (stiffness wise) will start to make a difference.
Repeat. I am not an expert, but hopefully I have made a start so more knowledgeable people can add their thoughts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I stopped after 1 1/2 weeks, then got myself a pair of good condition used intermediate skis, used them for 2 trips, last Jan hired a pair of Head iTitans and this year I have my own pair of them. think they come out in tests as fairly advanced
if you've had a few weeks and had instruction then your skiing is possibly better than you think. if you're hiring skis, you can take them back and try something different during the week, maybe have the first day on something you are comfortable with while you get your ski legs back, then upgrade to an intermediate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hothoundz,
Good question! I'm not an expert at picking skis, but my best answer would be to change when you start to feel that your skis are limiting you. You can notice this as you build up speed and perhaps start feeling that you don't really trust you're skis anymore. Of course, you need to trust your own abilities first. As a rule of thumb, if the skis start wobbling, they're too flexible for your speed.
Generally, I agree with what Chris Bish said, except that I do think it matters what skis you have when you're skidding too. Same problem, soft planks may start to shake too much.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| hothoundz wrote: |
Hi Snowheads....
Just a quickie...
When is the time right to change from a beginner ski to an intermediate ski? When did you change? As I'm improving I reckon it would be good to know when a change would be good and the positives and negatives.
Thanks! |
It all depends what your beginner ski is. It might be perfectly adequate for intermediate skiers...
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Welcome to s hothoundz.
[slight rant]
In my view, very few "beginners" or "intermediates" truly "out-ski" the skis they're on. They're just don't have enough technique to use the skis properly and find that a more advanced ski feels more stable because it's (generally) easier.
When you start to carve properly, and use your edges properly, then you'll be capable of out-skiing your ski.
It's all too easy to get fixated on spending money on kit - in the hope that it'll substitute for technique (or lessons).
[/slight rant]
BUT, having said that.
I think there comes a definite point where, as a skier, you can ski two pairs of skis; can discern a difference and prefer the feel of one pair over another. And feeling good on your kit is really important.
So, another view is to say that you should take opportunities to try other skis and, when you can tell the difference, go for the skis you prefer.
Ignore the "beginner", "intermediate", etc labels. Ski what feels best for you.
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Excellent stuff. Thanks. Well I will take advantage of trying another pair of skis from the hire shop next time to see if I prefer them and how they feel. Have noticed too much shaking at speed which feels a bit unsettling so it'd be good to remedy that.
Anyone know how, as a post beginner resort, do La Rosiere and/or Les Arcs stand-up?
Incidentally, weather forecast indicates more large dumps alpine-wise mid-late Jan...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FlyingStantoni, Your rant has a lot in common with my ideas!
hothoundz, Never been to La Rosiere but Les Arcs is a truly excellent resort for all levels.
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hothoundz, I think its better to think of each type of ski as having a broader range when looking to buy them, not just beginner or intermediate etc. But something more like beginner/intermediate intermediate/advanced advanced/expert etc.
Another thing to consider is that one persons intermediate/advanced ski may well be anothers beginner/intermediate ski, so the only way to tell if you would be better suited to a higher performance ski or in fact any ski is to try them out, you will know within a few turns if they are for you or not.
Keeping your ski edges well maintained and consistent will have a major effect on the way they feel so after using them for a while you may feel you have outgrown the skis intended level when in fact it could just be that the edges need re-sharpening etc.
The more skis you try the more you will learn what's right for you and just because it's labeled up as above or below the ability level you think you're at, don't write them off if they feel right!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i found Les Arcs to be a little bit small ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sev112, But probably not for an improver. And you can always go over the Vanoise and start on La Plagne.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
hothoundz, it is amazing how well you can get around just by skidding, in which case it doesn't matter much what skis you are on!
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Ooohh - GOT to disagree with that
I vividly remember on Holiday No2 getting the "gold" skis rather than the bronze or soliver ones, thinking that they were a better quality, not because they were for much much better skiers than me.
I skidded on VERY stiff Rossignol Vipers for a whole week and it was miserable.
I didnt actually realise until a couple of years later - in Les Arcs, the ski shop gave me a brand spanking new pair of Salomon Equipe; they were beautiful and i loved them, unfortunatley the rocky slopes of les Arcs didnt love them anywhere as much, and feeling guilty for the holes appearing in eth base i took them back and asked for something that they didnt mind getting ruined on the grass and rocks that year. I got a pair of old Rossignol Cobras. They were a revelation and felts sooooo soft and my skiing took a massive leap forward straight away.
Sorry - that turned into a long reply .....zzzzzzzzzzzz
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You know it makes sense.
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sev112, I will agree you will exhaust yourself skidding on heavy stiff skis. Been there, done that!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sev112, good point though - lots of different types of ski will help you understand the effect of the ski on the skiing and the skier - if you get me.
This is the beauty of hiring. I will ski on 5 different skis this season and we will learn about each other 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of good points. Neville, makes an interesting point the Titan are an advanced ski but the way the tech is these days skis can be pretty forgiving and you tend to only really unlock their potential when you really push them. Incidently I have pair of Magnums in my quiver, I like the Titans but too much of an over lap with other skis in terms of width I have.
hothoundz, As others have said try a number of skis of various shapes, lenghts and sizes, something too stiff would be unforgiving, softer skis tend to flop like noodles and chatter at speed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sold the titans and magnums last season when I worked at Brighams... hot cakes was an understatement... because of the 'intelligent chip' in them they stiffen themselves up when you're coming out of a turn so they have variable stiffness... something like that!
I would say if you can get to one of the Snow+Rock or Ellis Brigham ski tests at the snowdomes do so, you can try loads of different skis for free (slope time still costs) and a lot of the shops will let you demo skis anyway, I know the one at Cas does, just take a bunch out and try them, right through from the 'beginner' ones to 'higher intermediate', see if you can feel the difference, if the intermediate skis feel too heavy and hard going you're probably not ready to move up but if they feel stable and secure and are still fairly easy to turn moving up might be a good idea, as other people have said learning to carve is the key to unlocking the potential and useage of higher level skis.
At the end of the day choose what feels right for you and enjoy  I'm not a girly girl at all but I have a pair of flowery all mountain skis which I love to bits. I thought I would have gone for a pair of race style piste carvers but these were just right.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| crazy_skier_jules wrote: |
| but I have a pair of flowery all mountain skis |
And now I'm jealous!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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crazy_skier_jules, I think S&R charge for demo, well it's £15 then when you bring them back they refund it asa store credit-that's what a mate had in Chill Factor anyhow, don't know if this is carte blanche across all stores. Ellis B (or the ones I've been to) don't.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sev112 wrote: |
| Chris Bish wrote: |
hothoundz, it is amazing how well you can get around just by skidding, in which case it doesn't matter much what skis you are on!
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Ooohh - GOT to disagree with that
I vividly remember on Holiday No2 getting the "gold" skis rather than the bronze or soliver ones, thinking that they were a better quality, not because they were for much much better skiers than me.
I skidded on VERY stiff Rossignol Vipers for a whole week and it was miserable.
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I went for the Gold/VIP tier (Volkl Race Tiger) on Holiday No 4, definitely at a level I would describe as 'just about intermediate' (I was a slow learner). I found that after an initial morning of being able to do nothing at all on them, the eventual outcome was that they forced me to up my game a bit. I started getting more properly onto my edges, because I *had* to, etc. Skiing on slightly-above-my-level kit was as good as getting lessons.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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hothoundz, In the first instance ensure your ski's are well serviced. If you then feel that they are not up to the job then perhaps it's time to change. As you go faster and have more control over tilting (edging) your ski's then it's time to change to something a bit stiffer.
sev112, I reckon Vipers were miserable, I could never get on with them.
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| paulio wrote: |
| Skiing on slightly-above-my-level kit was as good as getting lessons. |
We'll agree to disagree on that one!
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I admit I don't know the first thing about skis so I have a question rather than an answer. Would an instructor (as part of paid-for tuition, of course) be likely to give an informed opinion on the suitability of the skiier's current kit - and maybe suitable alternatives?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| paulio wrote: |
| Skiing on slightly-above-my-level kit was as good as getting lessons. |
We'll agree to disagree on that one! |
OK, if you like. But I learnt more from that experience than any number of 'follow me - whoosh!' lessons I've had over the years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| Would an instructor...give an informed opinion on the suitability of the skiier's current kit - and maybe suitable alternatives? |
A good one will, although it can be a bit pot-luck on whether a randomly-chosen instructor will do so.
Within the BASI system I've noticed a lot more awareness and focus on the impact of kit set-up and biomechanics over the last 5-odd years.
The problem with such advice is that, once you get into it, it's a bag of worms - are the boots and a skis "suitable"; are the boots properly-fitted; does the skier have any biomechanics issues that could be improved through proper alignment of kit; are the bindings mounted in the right place for the skier...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| paulio wrote: |
| OK, if you like. But I learnt more from that experience than any number of 'follow me - whoosh!' lessons I've had over the years. |
IMV that says more about the quality of the lessons than it does about the kit!
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| paulio wrote: |
| OK, if you like. But I learnt more from that experience than any number of 'follow me - whoosh!' lessons I've had over the years. |
IMV that says more about the quality of the lessons than it does about the kit! |
Undoubtedly it does yes, totally agree. I didn't mean 'hooning about incompetently on a race ski is better than the very best professional instruction'. But I got a lot out of it, about equivalent to a mediocre lesson.
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You know it makes sense.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| Red Leon wrote: |
| Would an instructor...give an informed opinion on the suitability of the skiier's current kit - and maybe suitable alternatives? |
A good one will, although it can be a bit pot-luck on whether a randomly-chosen instructor will do so.
Within the BASI system I've noticed a lot more awareness and focus on the impact of kit set-up and biomechanics over the last 5-odd years.
The problem with such advice is that, once you get into it, it's a bag of worms - are the boots and a skis "suitable"; are the boots properly-fitted; does the skier have any biomechanics issues that could be improved through proper alignment of kit; are the bindings mounted in the right place for the skier... |
This is a difficult one, I'm no ski instructor, but I am a cycling coach (unfortunately with a normal boring day job). We're expected to know about cycling kit from a generic point of view, whether it's safe, fit for purpose and it fits the rider. But as a coach it's extremely difficult to know/keep up to date about all different pieces of kit from different manufacturers and different models.
Although as an enthusiast I like to look/perve at bikes a fair bit so still know a reasonable amount.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| Would an instructor (as part of paid-for tuition, of course) be likely to give an informed opinion on the suitability of the skiier's current kit - and maybe suitable alternatives? |
He/she should do. A few years back my OH bought skis in Andorra. Deal was, you paid 30 euros (I think) and an ex-instructor (who now worked for the ski shop) chatted to you about your skiing and what you were looking for and chose 2 skis to try. He wore one pair and you the other. You both went up the mountain, you tried one pair for a variety of runs then swapped with him and tried the second. (He obviously took tools to adjust the bindings). My husband wasn't very thrilled with either but they came down and the instructor, having seen him ski, then suggested 2 other pairs to try. So they went up again and husband said they were both much, much better and absolutely loved one pair and bought them. If you bought skis you got your money back, if not, you got some instruction for your money! Brilliant system! Other shops ought to take it up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, That's the sort of thing I had in mind. Having been paid for his / her time, I think an instructor who has watched you ski ought to have a reasonable idea what type of kit should suit your ability (or lack thereof).
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FAQ
), but I wouldn't go back to my previous ones. These are stiff, stable and the edges sharpen up to really hold on hard packed snow/icier conditions. My skiing improved loads and very quickly and the skis had a lot to do with it 