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Chamonix in our 5th year?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My wife and I were late starters but have done 4 weeks now, starting from scratch - we're looking for this year, and being a bit confused about skiing ability, wonder if the skiing in chamonix may be too much for us? I was signed off ESF Level 2 last year, my wife probably a bit further behind and a bit less confident.

On a more general note, we've been to courmayeur, val gardena (ortisei), val d'isere and la rosiere.....looking for authentic village location, skiing that will improve us, good food but not particularly a massive night-life (although a bit more than la rosiere!)

any suggestions to get our short-list going would be much appreciated!

Thanks, R
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You're not going mad for off-piste I guess but there's plenty of pistes suitable in Chamonix and the other resorts in the valley if you really want to go (and you should at some point). However, a better bet might be Portes du Soleil. Base yourself in Les Gets or Morzine and you'll have a fantastic time.
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Quote:

I was signed off ESF Level 2 last year, my wife probably a bit further behind and a bit less confident.


I love Chamonix as a place, and have skied in all the piste areas there (a bit - don't know them well) and visit in the summer. But I agree with halfhand, that the PdS would be better suited to your ability at the moment. I'd also very, very, strongly urge you to spend a week having really good lessons. A week with BASS Morzine would make a big difference. Don't give up on lessons now or your wife, in particular, might just potter along at her present level, without that step change in confidence which she needs. I have no axe to grind with ESF but BASS (as well as being a lot more expensive Twisted Evil ) will be much better. You might well be in different groups, though.

Nobody could call Chamonix a village! It's authentic all right, but it's authentically Chamonix, a valley town whose life revolves round the mountain. It's not picturesque. Nor is Morzine, for that matter, though it has plenty of pubs!

If you want something a little more villagey you could try Megeve (which also has a BASS). The bit along the main road is sprawly and not particularly attractive but the centre is traffic free and very chic and attractive (some insanely expensive shops and restaurants but you don't need to go there.....). The skiing is mostly intermediate, well-groomed, very scenic and the general ambiance is non-scary. (Chamonix can be scary, and is full of guys who look like they were born in a mountain cavern and spend their entire time scaling peaks).
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Nothing more to add really! You'd prob enjoy Chamonix, enough blues/reds for a week but you will find yourself on a challenging run or two. I always say all mountain lovers should go at some point but Portes du Soleil is more suited to an improving piste cruiser.

pam w wrote:

Nobody could call Chamonix a village! It's authentic all right, but it's authentically Chamonix, a valley town whose life revolves round the mountain. It's not picturesque. Nor is Morzine, for that matter, though it has plenty of pubs!


Hardly ugly though. Genuinely old buildings (ok, with more and more modern blocks popping up), tons of alpine history and stunning views of Europes highst peaks as you travel up and down the valley, you defo know your in the Alps! If you choose PdS Les Gets is nicer than Morzine.

richymidd, your call at the end of the day!
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I almost feel sorry sometimes for people who came as beginners or intermediates to Chamonix and just want endless easy pistes. Its not the place. there are a few a few easy runs in each area, but do you really want to take a bus everywhere?

chamonix is great, but its different to traditional style resorts which are linked into big area. trois vallee, paradski, PDS, etc. for a big piste day we are even going to head away from Chamonix...
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Thanks Guys - in response, we'll deffo be keeping up the lessons and yes, we'll probably be in different groups. We've done this a lot but it works for us, school in the morning and ski together in the afternoon. I'll have a look at BASS if we end up going somewhere down there.

Off-piste no, not quite....only what we've done as part of a group but we won't be heading off ourselves just yet!

No, we know Cham isn't really a village, but it's just one of those places (even being fairly novice) you kind of feel you should do at some point! I guess, for example, we loved Val and hated Tignes.....for the moment, it's not just about the skiing so we're looking for something that has a bit more about it as a resort.

Anyone got any stand-out suggestions in Austria or Switzerland?! - doesn't have to be France!

Ta, R

Pam - I've just realised what BASS is! Kinda surprises me you would say that's a much better option than ESF.....why?
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Quote:

Kinda surprises me you would say that's a much better option than ESF.....why?

One reason is you are guaranteed small groups. nobody at the back of a group of 10 or 12 is learning very much. Also, native English speakers. Some ESF instructors speak v good English, but few have the facility to try lots of different ways of explaining the same thing - which can be very helpful; people learn differently. Also, whilst some ESF instructors are very good (and they are all without exception brilliant skiers) some aren't, and you can get too much of the "follow me" with very few technical explanations, and little attempt to try to match up the right drills with the right people. the same is true of other countries, I'm sure. I only have two weeks experience of ski school in Austria but one instructor was very good, with fantastic English, the other, whilst very friendly and pleasant, spoke very little English (I speak some German and was in a group where another skier was a linguist and translated for me as necessary) and was mostly of the "bend ze knees and follow me" variety. In our resort (Les Saisies/Espace Diamant) there is an ESI - independent ski school - with some instructors I would strongly recommend, others I wouldn't. But I think in a BASS school you could be more guaranteed a strong technical focus and individual attention.

There are loads of lovely resorts everywhere, which would suit your skiing, but make sure you get specific local recommendations about ski instructors. Although you are slightly different levels, some private lessons will be worth considering too - a good instructor will easily be able to challenge both of you on the same terrain.
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richymidd, Have you considered the Dolomites in Italy? Selva, Corvara or Colfosco maybe?
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richymidd, Chamonix is a great place, but the bearing of the valley does lend itself to ice as it can easily become windswept, which at your level, especially Mrs R might not be appreciated.

The PDS, maybe Livigno (Italy) and the Grand Massif are areas I've skied as part of the learning curve and all would suit on ability levels and your social requirements. - If you choose the GM, consider Zig-Zag based in Samoens and Morillon who provide excellent instruction and coaching.
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If you haven't been to Switzerland and Austria then skiing in a few French and Italian Alps represents a small sample of what is available. Bergfex reports 184 Swiss and Austrian 361 skiing facilities.

I take it you have tried La Thuile (Italian side) while skiing La Rosiere. While you were in Val Gardena Ortisei have you tried Alps D' Suisi, Santa Cristina, Alta Badia, Canazei and Arabba? All the linked piste in the Val Gardena make up only 175km and is counted one of the 12 skiing resorts in Dolomites with which you can ski by one ski pass. Val Gardena is also linked with Alta Badia, Canazei and Arabba to form the Sella Ronda offering 510km fully linked "circular" skiing area in the world.

There are at least 136 skiing places in Italy. You should find the Swiss and Austrian resorts generally smaller, less commercial, more orderly and less crowded relative to the French. Resorts in Switzerland and Austria are seldom fully linked together and each unlinked area is seldom larger than 200km piste. Those in Austria within the same valley can often be skied with a ski pass covering the whole valley accessible by ski buses or trains the fares of which are included in the ski pass. I would say in general you could not found in Switzerland, Italy and Austria the massive purposely built holiday apartment blocks like those you found in France (Val D, Flaine, 3V, Avoriaz and even Chamonix) at their resorts. Therefore if you return to the Swiss, Austrian and Italian resorts in the summer they are not like ghost town and villages with dotted by unused chairlifts.

Your French experience alone should include at least 3v (600km piste by linking Courchevel, Meribel, Val Thoren) and Paradiski (400km piste with Les Arc and La Plagne). France has some of the biggest resorts in the world. Val D is about half of Espace Killy which has Tignes at the front end to make up the 300km piste.

For more skiing experience there are at least some very different Canadian and American resorts across the pond.
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Even as a Chamonix fan, I wouldn't really recommend it for what you seem to be looking for. It's difficult to get around the whole area (lifts not well linked), has a challenging climate and rather a macho culture. Les Gets is good, as long as not too late in the season. The Paradiski area, comprising Les Arcs and La Plagne also suits intermediates well, with good snow record and plenty kilometres of piste. In a good snow season, the lowish mountains around Kitzbuhel have much to offer and instruction in Austria tends to be very professional. Obergurgl is higher, with a better snow record and decent skiing. In Switzerland, maybe Saas Fee or, for more challenge, Verbier. Megeve in France is also a lovely town but rather expensive and relatively limited skiing. If determined to try Chamonix valley, then having a car available is convenient and perhaps give it's Argentiere area a miss until you have a couple more years under your belt.
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Quote:

Megeve in France is also a lovely town but rather expensive and relatively limited skiing.

I can't imagine many 4 weeks skiers who would find the extensive skiing of Megeve too "limited". It is quite an expensive town - true, though probably no more so than Verbier. We don't have any idea of how tight the OP's budget is.
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Quote:

Megeve in France is also a lovely town but rather expensive and relatively limited skiing.

Megeve is part of the original Domaine Evasion that is fully linked with St Gervais and Rochebrune. Combloux is unlinked and has its own area on the opposite side of the valley road. This was originally a 300km piste skiing area. In recent years Evasion Domaine absorbed Les Contamines offering 445km piste in total. I wouldn't have thought any resort with 445km piste "limited".

Chamonix Valley together offers only 152 km piste.
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Attraction of Chamonix is off piste, though the town and setting are nice by skiing standards. I'm trying to think of somewhere I've been where the resort town itself is an attraction, and I think the only one I can think of is Cortina in the Dolomites. Some stunning runs in the general area, but snow record isn't great (and I don't think this year is any change) and you would definitely need a car and be willing to drive around to the various skiing areas which are quite fragmented.
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pam w makes a good point about Megeve. It has a bigger linked ski area than I remembered. It's an attractive town, quite unlike purpose built centres such as La Plagne, Tignes, Les Menuires. It's also only about 90 minutes from Geneva airport. I recall food quality being much better than average. I think it's about time I saved up and revisited there myself. The piste map shows plenty of red runs...

http://www.bassmegeve.com/assets/piste_maps/Megeve_St%20Gervais_pistemap_full_not_inc_contamines.jpg
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Quote:

In recent years Evasion Domaine absorbed Les Contamines offering 445km piste

Les Contamines is not linked though. Combloux isn't linked, but there are very easy bus connections - it's only over the road, really. Contamines is a day trip.

The area is very beautiful, with Mont Blanc "in yer face". Skiing in Megeve is a lot more convenient than Cortina - though the Dolomites are, IME, the most beautiful mountains ever! Megeve can be ludicrously expensive - Michelin starred restaurants etc. But it doesn't have to be!
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pam w,

In my time skiing Megeve the Domaine Evasion ski pass covered only the St Gervais, Megeve and Combloux. Now the Internet serch on Megeve yields 445km piste and Les Contamies being counted as part of it.

Les Contamines is quite near to St Gervais and cannot be accessed without passing it. It is always a small skiing resort on its own but could have become part of a major domain area. After all Domains like Porte Du Soleil claims 600km piste but is really made up by a number of unlinked Swiss and French resorts.

There is a tendency for many small resorts join together to attract more visitors. The deal is to pay slightly more for the whole domain pass and be able to ski anyone of them. Dolomites super ski pass, Galaxy of Milky way (no extra cost for 6 day pass in any of the resorts but restricted to one day per resort) and Ski Amade are among the successful ones.
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saikee wrote:
pam w,


Les Contamines is quite near to St Gervais and cannot be accessed without passing it. It is always a small skiing resort on its own but could have become part of a major domain area. After all Domains like Porte Du Soleil claims 600km piste but is really made up by a number of unlinked Swiss and French resorts.

There is a tendency for many small resorts join together to attract more visitors. The deal is to pay slightly more for the whole domain pass and be able to ski anyone of them. Dolomites super ski pass, Galaxy of Milky way (no extra cost for 6 day pass in any of the resorts but restricted to one day per resort) and Ski Amade are among the successful ones.


A bit off topic but I have often wondered why Megeve and Les Contamines have not been linked by lifts. There is a ridge at Les Contamines where you can look down and see Megeve very clearly.
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Quote:

A bit off topic but I have often wondered why Megeve and Les Contamines have not been linked by lifts.

I don't know. There has long been a plan to link Praz sur Arly and Megeve - just one valley - but that's not going to happen, I suspect. Combination of environmental pressure (which I'd support - that valley is the only one in the Arly Valley not full of metal already) and politics. We can ski from our apartment right across to Praz sur Arly but I am not bothered about that extra link - we have loads of skiing already and it's good to drive to another domain sometimes - including Les Contamines. There's a lot of politics (and also commercial issues given choice of lift companies, probably). LC seems to be doing quite nicely on its own. They have good snow, sometimes, when all around is poor, as does Les Saisies. There's something to be said for making it less easy to be invaded. wink
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CP,

Think the talk to link the two has been on the table for years but things may not always work out.

Les Houches for example has never been part of Chamonix and always sells its own pass although it is possible to get a all valley pass now. When I started skiing in Chamonix Les Houches wasn't even featured in the Chamonix handbook.

There is at least one previously linked resort now separated back into two. The one comes to mind is Stowe and Smugglers Notch in Vermont of USA (similar to La Rosiere and La Thuile linked by a mountain pass that closed in winter but can be accessed by skiing and chairlifts).
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Chamonix is EXPENSIVE!!! Was horrified by the price of accomidation for a trip this year! First time bach there in a very long time.

Incredible place though and probably at the end of my trip I will be sayingn it was worth the cost.

OP you could try Chatel as an alternative Smile
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OP. I would not go to Chamonix unless I was looking to do lot's of off piste. There are just too many resorts that are better intermediate playgrounds, more convenient to ski and not so big.

There are some nice villages that are part of the big skiing domains in France. Oz-en-Oisan (ADH) and Les Coches (Paradiski) are two that I've been to recently (twice each) but there are plenty if hunt around.

For me ESF are to ski schools what Crystal are to tour operators. Lots of people don't see much wrong with them but don't expect much individual attention. There are plenty of smaller ski schools around that arguably are bit more personable and give better customer service. But ESF is kind of the default option.
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OP, +1 for Megeve. They've already got piles of snow. Try Stanford's http://www.stanfordskiing.co.uk/ - lovely family firm, been with them 3 times now. It will build up your confidence level. Good piste grooming and easy to understand piste connections. Can't beat the Geneva short connection time.
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More thread drift - but a pretty picture. This was taken today from a restaurant in Praz sur Arly. The ski lift just above the fence post is a Megeve lift. The valley in between is the one which would be crossed to link Praz sur Arly to Megeve - a link long discussed but now v unlikely to happen, it seems.
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