 Poster: A snowHead
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And in 5 trips with Esprit i have never ever seen any of the childcare staff ever unfit for work
So my 5 weeks of 7 days of real evidence trumps your viscious anmd slanderous rumours
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One more point in favour of Esprit: last year they had their own waiting/play room for children (and parents/grandparents) at Chambery Airport, where we usually find there are not enough seats or even floor space.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sev112, hungover doesn't necessarily mean unfit for work!! Lol.
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Oh yes; 3 years ago we arrived back at Salzburg airport and were told - planes are delayed 4 hours plus the advance check in time so it's a 6 hour wait.
The staff were brilliant - they corralled all of the luggage and trolleys at one end of the terminal and then sat there with it while we wandered out and about trying to keep the kids occupied - brilliant service. They even took the kids off us for a while as well. Wouldnt expect that with normal transfer staff
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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NickyJ, a quick note for next season, we had the 12/13 preview brochure arrive the other day and there's a half price nursery offer on at the Esprit place in ADH and half price snow club at a couple of other places. Seriously tempted to check it out further and book it if so before this season is out but seems wrong to book it before we've even been this season, although we'll report back week on Sunday 
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I don't know about Espirit as I have no kids but having worked in adventure instructing season work I can confirm a lot of the 18-20 somethings do turn up to work hungover. However at the sites I worked at I did not see it negatively impact the work of the instructors. I think everyone has turned up to work hungover at some point... ok, well, most people! Even myself, who very rarely drinks (nothing pious I just don't really like the taste) I have, a lot, turned up to work so tired it feels like a hangover. I am still able to do my work though!
'nuff said, hungover workers are old news, always have done and probably always will do.
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Are you truly suggesting 18-20 year olds you have known in the adventure instructing industry have turned up for work (i repeat in the adventure instructing industry) unfit to do so ??
If so, may i put it, sligthly respectfully, that you could and perhaps should, consider writing to the Managing Directors of the companies that you and they worked for, and advise them of the shocking failure of their basic safety controls in (i respectfully repeat, the adventure instructing industry).
That would not be something that we shoudl be accepting as just something "18 to 20 year olds" always do.
Alternatively it might not be as bad as you remenmber
May i ask, respectfully, whether you were an 18-20 year old at the time, or a more responsible "adult" who cuold have done something about that?
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I was the same age and ranking... instructor grunt!, but as stated in my post, I don't really like drinking... I'm just wired that way I guess.
Hungover doesn't necessarily mean unfit... hungover can be anything from a headache to full on puking.
I'm not excusing stupid behaviour, but as it is, it is unfortunately what a lot of young people with their new-found freedom do, go and get quite drunk. And I doubt anybody older would work for the peanuts that these activity/holiday companies pay. I did actually leave because of the way the company was treating us - they do treat you like slave grunts - and yes the senior staff did also get drunk! Some people can work fine with a hangover... some can't.
At the end of the day in an ideal world no-one would be an idiot with alcohol... but can you really see that happening? can you really see young adults, all of them, being sensible? especially with the state of a lot of upbringing these days? I do agree with you in that it's really s**t, people's attitudes, yes I do hate my own generation for it, but are they going to change? Young adults go work for these companies cos they offer the chance to party and drink as well as get away from home.
I do express my attitude... get called the usual boring dull saddo... but hey I am happy not drinking so I just let them get on with it...
the companies will not have any staff if they stopped all that the staff do..
it's ridiculous but life
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sev112, 
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I really do have to personally and again respectfully, disagree about hungover and fit for work. I don't think a hungover person should be anywhere near adventure instructing nor child care if they are hungover.
One thing I can say about Esprit is that their interviewng and selection is very very good so hopefully all of those other hungover staff are working elsewhere for other companies. As I mentioned, in 5 trips I have seen no evidence at all of hangovers, or anything to concern me at all i- the young staff at Esprit have almost without exception been a credit to their company and to themselves
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sev112 wrote: |
I really do have to personally and again respectfully, disagree about hungover and fit for work. I don't think a hungover person should be anywhere near adventure instructing nor child care if they are hungover.
One thing I can say about Esprit is that their interviewng and selection is very very good so hopefully all of those other hungover staff are working elsewhere for other companies. As I mentioned, in 5 trips I have seen no evidence at all of hangovers, or anything to concern me at all i- the young staff at Esprit have almost without exception been a credit to their company and to themselves |
You think that no Esprit childcare staff were ever hungover? Cloud cuckoo land mate... Same for every company.
Fact is most people can cover up a hangover and do their job just as well. I have been in customer-facing roles (not for Esprit mind, was working in a kitchen for them) with a blazing hangover on numerous occasions and I doubt any of the customers ever noticed.
However, all the nannies are qualified etc etc and I would say that the childcare managers are very, very competent people and if they thought someone was unfit for work they would have no problems sending them back to bed or even sending them home if they did it too often. Several people got sent home for being regularly tardy or unfit for work.
So yes, 90%+ of ALL seasonal workers will turn up hungover at some point, but no, this doesn't necessarily matter. If it does make much of a difference they won't last very long.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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To be fair the previous posters Chausseur was replying to saying people holidaying with Esprit clearly didn't like their kids were a bit strong.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I am a very superior parent with a whole array of quality parenting skills.
Unfortunately I find my kids are only interested in me when they haven't got other kids to play with.
Hence ESPRIT
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Poster: A snowHead
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bbski, 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jonny Jones, just insult them instead... what, insults along the lines of "perfect for parents who don't really like their kids very much."?
The grand irony is I actually agree with you, when my kids are old enough to learn to ski or board I will do like you did and go to North America in a self-catering chalet, but Espirit suits our childcare needs for both my missus and I to enjoy a break away together on the mountains while the kids are too young to learn. The kids are safe and enjoy it, we enjoy it and Espirit do a bang up job.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Chasseur wrote: |
I've never really understood the need of the pious and pompous to come on here and moralise to quite the degree that some do without the faintest idea about how insulting and completely out of touch they are with the likely reality. Frank;y I don't give a rats @rse what the pious do with their offspring as long as it isn't illegal and perhaps they shouldn't give a rats @rse what others legally and quite happily do on holiday with their children either. And stop pompously giving everyone the benefit of their clearly superior parenting  FFS  |
Loving your work  |
Yeah, that method never fails. If you don't like what someone says, don't engage with the discussion; just insult them instead.
I've been with this community since before Snowheads started, and that kind of behaviour is sadly becoming increasingly common. I'm tired of seeing threads where members are shouted down, insulted, told they're boring, or accused of trolling when they're simply using the forum for its original purpose: engaging in the exchange of ideas. |
Congratulations on your long service to the snowheads community but maybe you should re-read your original post.
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
| ...it looks as though you need not see your children all week, if that's your idea of fun... |
Quite. It isn't. Children are more than a lifestyle accessory, and childhood passes too fast to waste any of it.
After ten or so family skiing trips, my idea of a good family skiing holiday is a self-catered apartment, so the family can have breakfast and evening meals together. The kids can chat away while dinner's being cooked, and there's plenty of private space for play and relaxation. The apartment should be right on the slopes and very close to the ski school, because children find it hard to walk far in ski gear and can't carry skis for more than a few yards.
The skiing day best starts with an hour of family skiing before ski school where the kids can warm up, have some fun and show off to you. Later in the day, if you collect your own kids from ski school you can chat to their instructor to make sure they're progressing well, and they can show you what they've learned. You really don't want to miss the moment when your kids have achieved some major goals like going to the top of the mountain, managing their first jump, skiing their first black run, feeling confident on the bumps, etc. If ski school has been fun, your kids will also want to show you the tricks they've learned - the places where you can take a short-cut through the trees, or the best part of the piste to get some air, for example. Those moments are too precious to give away to a child minder.
It seems strange to me that anyone would pay a stranger to take that family time away from them. I can only imagine that the people who do it don't actually like spending time with their kids very much. |
The last paragraph makes you seem like the one whose unable to engage in rational debate without name calling, you provoked the flaming.
We were (I think) the only family at the PSB with small children and had a lovely self catering holiday somewhat as you described with plenty of time to play with the kids, but it didn't stop our 3 year old wanting to play with other children for a week. It's not that easy if you're on your own in an appartment to find a ready supply of kids, which an Esprit type holiday will have in abundance. It's easy to fall into the dumbsnet trap of "surely the kids deserve a holiday too" without thinking maybe that doesn't include 24 hour parental contact.
I'm not too sure your post even took into account what the OP was looking for? The OP doesn't give the ages of the children but his tagline reads “Planning my 2012 Xmas trip. Hope to get my little girl on skis for first time” so the chance of her skiing an hour before ski school and spending an afternoon showing her dotting parents short cuts through the trees seems unlikely.
Not edited for spelling
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 10-01-12 16:07; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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betterinblack,
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Not sure if I should ask this in view of some of the exchanges above , but is any other Snowhead off to Chalet Marta in Selva for w/c 19 Feb ?
Also, FWIW , we have found that the big advantage with chalets run by operators such as Esprit , Silverski, Ski Olympic etc etc in school hols time is the number of other kids.
Our 2 always ask in advance the ages of the other kids in the chalet as they look forward to playing with them, making new friends and avoiding their doting parents ( note this is the reverse of palming your kids off onto childcare etc so the parents can be together but has the even more beneficial effect namely the whole family is happy.... )
What that says about our parenting skills I neither know nor care
John
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| Quote: |
Not sure if I should ask this in view of some of the exchanges above , but is any other Snowhead off to Chalet Marta in Selva for w/c 19 Feb ?
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No but I'll be there March 11th in the Chalet Marta. If you're in room 15 please don't leave any presents ;o)
It's part of our honeymoon as getting married March 3rd and our boy will be 9 months then. I've only heard good things about Esprit childcare so hoping for a good week with no dramas. We will be spending some afternoons/mornings as a family, but we will be having time away and I'm sure the boy will enjoy it just as much.
And regarding childcare with a hangover, hopefully as the staff are qualified they might have a bit of professionalism. We've all worked with a hangover and it's not exactly the end of the world now is it!?!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry but I disagree about being hungover for not being the end of the world.
There are at least 3 jobs where it quiþe feaibiliy is :
1. Being an Advebture Instructor
2. Looking after kids
3. Cokking eggs for my breakfast
I sincerely hope your views do not lead to either you or someone in your care suffering badly as a result.
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Chri$, we will be in room 15 ! Or else the kids will be. I will tell them if they are not to leave any " presents ". Congrats and I hope you have a great time.
We never tried babycare and on reflection wish that we had.
John
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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One esprit chalet I stayed in the staff were so hungover after staff night off that they didn't even turn up to cook my eggs the next morning. I ended up ignoring the "guests not allowed to enter the kitchen" notice and sorting out breakfast for about 30 people. And I got told off by the staff when they did finally show up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Apologies for my blackberry standard typing
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| Quote: |
I sincerely hope your views do not lead to either you or someone in your care suffering badly as a result.
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Well seeing as I took the time to select Esprit for our first family trip I'm hoping your 5 trips experience will be the norm.
Regarding staff big nights out I'd expect the childcare staff might choose Saturday night considering transfer day is Sunday when there should be no children to care for.
Hope you have a good time
and it snows more for you. Still looking a little thin in the dolomites but plenty of time for some of these big dumps to drift east.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sev112 wrote: |
Sorry but I disagree about being hungover for not being the end of the world.
There are at least 3 jobs where it quiþe feaibiliy is :
1. Being an Advebture Instructor
2. Looking after kids
3. Cokking eggs for my breakfast
I sincerely hope your views do not lead to either you or someone in your care suffering badly as a result. |
You seem to be confusing having a hangover with being drunk, since all of those things are doable unless you have a particularly bad hangover.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Also consider that a hangover on a teenager is generally a far different and less troublesome beast than a hangover on many people older than that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bob - i may be misjudging you, and if so i apologise, but i am a tad worried
Hungover will seriously diminish your ability to carry out mental activities and possibly more importantly physical activities - your body still has alcohol in it.
You will find in any safety-critical industries, that hungover will be instant dismissal because of the significant reduction in your ability to perform.
Hungover is certainly much more than a headache and the remnants of the gorilla in your mouth.
Please have a little think about what i have said. Anyone is entitled to party, but if you are looking after kids, or having people relying on your judgement to keep them safe when hanging from a bungy wire or going off piste etc then hungover is a very serious concern.
Anyway, happy holidays everyone, and keep safe out there, have a nice drink, but don't go to work if youve had too much and you might hurt someone and ruin your own life at the same time :0
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That was supposed to be a 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Blimey this thread took a few tangents. Anyway. My little girl will be 4 and we are weighing up learning to ski with the morning snow club which also sounds like fun. We also have a near 2 year old boy who will not be skiing.
My research has led me to find a few options with crystal, zenith, and family friendly, but Esprit seem to cover so many extras. Loads of choices for the kids, a range of catered chalets that allow us to enjoy time with the kids but also get them to bed whilst we chat to friends we are travelling with. Price wise they are not that
bad. I have found chalets but if you add transfer and flights its all around the same ££ but without the childcare options for our group of families.
Looking like Esprit at present so thanks for all of the feedback. I will keep an eye out for any staff 'off their nut' after a big night out.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I suspect we're arguing about nothing here because the headache and fuzzy mouth I would definitely count as being a hangover... Just a mild one...
Hangover =/= alcohol still in the body, in my definition/experience. Yours seems to be "still drunk from the night before" which is just drunkenness, not a hangover.
You have to remember that it's all relative. These days after 4-5 or maybe 6 pints at a push I would probably feel a bit hungover but be able to do pretty much anything. After much more than that I would be hungover enough for it to impact my job and personally I wouldn't do anything I considered particularly risky. However I know some people who appear to show no outward ill effects after a most of a bottle of jaeger and 3 hours sleep, when I would be dying all over the place.
You should realise and just accept that pretty well all seasonal staff will turn up for work fairly hungover at some point during the season, and there's no way round that. If it is noticeably impacting their job then something will be done (or it was at Esprit - can't comment on other companies). As I said before, a couple of people were sent home for repeatedly being unfit for work.
(also - It doesn't reflect at all on me, since I am not (as you apparently assume) particularly describing myself. I was one of the quieter ones on my season and often went home earlier than everyone else (say 1am instead of 3am, hehe), partly because being 22 at the time and having already been to uni and all that jazz I tend to get pretty bad hangovers so I try to avoid it)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yeah I wouldn't drive after that. 6 is rather more than I would casually drink of an evening before work either, since in my current job they actually expect me to use my brain and stuff...
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| sev112 wrote: |
Sorry but I disagree about being hungover for not being the end of the world.
There are at least 3 jobs where it quiþe feaibiliy is :
3. Cokking eggs for my breakfast
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Fertilised or unfertilised.......
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Chasseur, this is no place for your ouef-colour humour...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Richard_Sideways, sorry. Your eggsactly right..... 
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Just got back from the Marta. It is quite an echoey chalet with no doors between the lounge/dining area and stairwell so all the chatter/noise from downstairs echoes upwards. I was glad I had taken my earplugs.
It is a basic chalet in need of updating but was fine overall. The chalet staff didn't engage with the guests much at all: we briefly saw the young girls who served the canapes and meals but the rest seemed to hide in the kitchen.
The nursery ladies, on the other hand, were very chatty (the nursery is based in the Marta). Daughter (7) loved the childcare and loved going to the Cocoa Club (I wasn't sure how it would work as it is based in a different chalet, but we just had to say at what time we wanted the kids back and they were brought back for that time).
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FAQ
) I think that should be doting.....although dotting does seem to work.... 
