 Poster: A snowHead
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Thought I'd be a cock and announce my ski hols at the end of Feb. On a more serious note, does anyone have any advice on the Eurostar, specifically how do you sleep?! Is it sitting up in the chairs? I going direct to Moutiers so would like to get my head down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sleep.......I thought the whole point of the over night snow train was to get battered 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Apparently the party carriage is long gone. With a bit of luck the price of oil will be silly soon and cheap flights will get chopped. Still can't see how it's economically better to lift people plus kit into the air instead of stay on the ground via train or car. If we get a sensible government then (hahahahaha) they'll lower train prices and de- our public transport. It's embarrassing how much better the Frogs and Krauts are.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Still can't see how it's economically better to lift people plus kit into the air instead of stay on the ground via train or car.
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It is all about air resistance and friction. For Co2 emmisions the threshold for car occupancy is over 2 ( flight will emit less Co2 than one person in a car), but for trains it depends where the lectricity is coming from
As to sleeping - it depends upon which train you get. The one direct from London is a sit up one, whereas if you change in Paris you can get the couchette from Paris.
John
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| johnE wrote: |
It is all about air resistance and friction. For Co2 emmisions the threshold for car occupancy is over 2 ( flight will emit less Co2 than one person in a car), but for trains it depends where the lectricity is coming from
John |
If it's France won't most of it be nuclear and reasonably Co2 free?
(I'll not argue about the +/- of nuclear!)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Trying to sleep in the second-class seats in a Eurostar snow train to the Alps is a bad experience - and a bum-numbing one. Personally, I'd rather fly and lose 2 days skiing. However, taking the Eurostar to Paris Gare du Nord, then night sleeper from Gare d'Austerlitz is a different matter - particularly if you are with a group of mates who can help one another with the luggage.
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achilles, + 1 (but then, we are no longer young)
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I live out in France not far from the snow train route and have taken the eurostar a couple of times (only ever with work though) and flown a couple of times. Once everything is included (trains to the airport etc.) it costs about half as much for me to get a plane as get the train to return home to the UK. I'd take the train more if the companies running them didn't take the p**s so much on the price!
Eurostar is a lot like a plane in terms of seating, you can just walk further up and down it and it jolts about more. Seats are a bit more comfortable though so if you can sleep on a plane you'll be fine. Food is pretty crap but fills a hole and is about €6/7 for a 'meal'. If you're actually hungry get 2.
Modern planes are actually pretty much as efficient as modern trains, depending on who you listen to they're slightly more or less efficient and it depends a lot on the distance etc. I'd rather keep the cheap flights and have more fun skiing than have the price of everything go up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To answer some of the points raised by GregL121:
1) Price. The train can be an expensive option, especially if booking near to the date of travel, but it's not always the case. I've been looking at booking return trains to Moutiers for example that come in at 169 pounds, and that's in a few weeks time rather than months away. I think I'd struggle to get flights and transfers for anything like half that. It would be great if they were cheaper, and the plans to allow more operators to run trains through the channel tunnel might result in that.
2) Efficiency. I seriously doubt the accuracy of the assertion that trains and planes are comparable, particularly as the trains we're talking about are (as hammerite says) effectively nuclear powered.
But ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages to all the different ways of travelling, and different people will have their own preferences about which is best. For me it's trains as they are so more comfortable than flying, getting the extra days skiing, and it avoids armpits of the world like Chambery airport.
To answer the original questions by andersont though:
The direct eurostar overnight ski train is not the best option for two reasons: 1) you have the try and sleep in a seat (which might be OK for you, some people find it easier than others) and 2) you arrive in the resort very early in the morning and have to find something to do for a few hours before you can get into your accommodation and start skiing. To travel overnight and get the benefits of the extra days skiing next time look into changing in Paris to a Corail Lunea sleeper service. This gives you a couchette bed (so sleeping is realistic) and you arrive in the resort at a more sensible time in the morning.
For information on the trains and different options the best resource I know of is http://www.snowcarbon.co.uk/ That should give you an idea about what to expect on board.
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I have twice done a return trip on Eurostar and sleep in a seat very well indeed - but take a pillow! I agree about the early arrival, it's a PITA really.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GregL121, if it's work<->home, you're probably not carrying luggage though? Definitely no skis.
If you're within an hour or 2 of St Pancras or Ashford, time-wise, using the overnight sleeper service is a no-brainer: U can work a full day on Friday yet be on the first lift Saturday! While everyone else wastes Saturday travelling.
Cost-wise, Airport parking, the cost of being trapped in the airports system for hours, longer transfers all add up so if you need to take skis, or even luggage, the train becomes competitive very quickly. If U then factor in the extra days' skiing and look at £/day, any increase in overall price from using the train looks very small indeed.
Comfort-wise, there's no comparison. Consider the 2hr long check-in/security pantomime at the major airports against the fact that 20mins from arrival at St.P U can be sitting on the train, rolling out of the station. The space per passenger is LOADS more than u get on a plane and the seats are better. U arrive much closer to resort negating the need for annoyingly long transfers.
Oh and the staff tend to be friendlier as they aren't on a second by second schedule to process maximum quantities of SLF*
Personally, to travel overnight by train, I'd be happy to pay twice the price of a daytime journey by plane but rarely have to 
*SLF = Self Loading Freight, the bucket airlines' slang for passengers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I agree the price differences can depend a lot on where you start from and where you are going, if you live in/around london and it isn't a long transfer at the end of the snow train then it's probably cheaper to get the train. If you're off somewhere near Geneva and leaving from Manchester (not sure if this flight route exists) it's probably cheaper and easier to fly. Costing up travel about a month in advance for me it was around half the price to get a TGV down to Lyon airport and fly back to the UK than to take a TGV to Paris/Lille, Eurostar to London and then a train in the UK. (Edit just to answer admin that is with luggage but not with snowboard, although I'm not sure how that works on easyjet and whether winter sports is another add on on top of luggage)
I agree France is a bit of a special case as 80% of their electricity generation is nuclear and most of the rest is hydro/wind but the general assertion that trains must be more efficient than planes isn't true. Most countries don't have a massive nuclear fleet to power their trains virtually emission free and still rely on gas/coal.
Regardless, the last thing we want is the cheap flights to disappear, it's nice to be able to compare the 2 and pick whichever is cheaper/easier for each specific case rather than be forced to either fly or take the train. Got 3 people coming out to go skiing later on in the year and it is actually significantly cheaper for them to drive out to my house in France than fly/take the train.
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With Easyjet winter sports kit is an extra £25 each way I think. It's a ing joke the way airlines treat people. I don't mind the low prices etc, it's opened up travel. It's the lying and cowdoo. Extra for any baggage at all, extra for skis even though they should be included in the weight. Extra for paying at all, extra for airport charges, the airport itself being miles from the destination. I'm taking the train because I'm under 25 and a return is £160. I can take as much shi t as I like and some extra for mates who have to fly cos they live up North. I don't understand how it can be cheaper to fly to a resort, with skis bearing in mind the transfer is at least £50-100 return on top.
What I don't understand is how, on a physical basis, lifting weight thousands of feet in the air can possibly be cheaper then rolling it on tyres or rails. The economics behind this feel really dodgy.
PS Mick O'Leary is a cock. Shutting down the "I hate Ryanair" website is a typical dick move from him, along with the idiot story about charging for the toilet which a gullible press fire out on an annual basis.
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You know it makes sense.
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How much room is there on the trains for luggage storage?
Never been on Eurostar, but I know space to put luggage on an Intercity train can be quite limited. Does it get a bit cramped if everyone has cases/bags for a weeks trip with skis/boots?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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hammerite, they are aware that skiers have luggage, so make provision - usually by blocking out a number of seats at each end of each Eurostar carriage.
We're headed down overnight E-star in a couple of week's (leaving 19:39 Friday night, so get a day in the office on Fri) but coming back via couchettes on the Thursday, leaving BSM at 21:00 - will get 6 days skiing, but back in London for Friday 9am. Seems sound to me, and to Mrs Roll which is a major consideration on boys trips...
Have done the E-star before, and they do provide blankets and eye shades (although ipod buds are more useful...). Tend to end up sleeping either on the floor or across two seats. Note the pillow suggestion above.
Not the greatest night of sleep it has to be said. But then again, tried sleeping on the overnight TGV - not couchette - a couple of years ago: was horrendous, and made worse by the fact that there was no booze or restaurant. Nightmare. But in both cases we were quite able to ski by 9 am in the morning, and the quasi-late night effect was no worse than a heavy apres ski session.
I'm not young (nearer 60 than 40...just) but have happily engaged with this again, as it is far more pleasant than the SLF model as described by Admin above. And we'll be taking the day time version at Easter - both ways. Is OK for a fortnght, the extra day/s don't worry us too much under those circumstances. Kids, luggage, lack of transfer hassle: all works well.
Of course if Beboo were to resume their Oxford - GVA flights... now that was civilised. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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andersont, there's loads of research if you have a look around but it basically boils down to:
If you want to move heavy stuff any distance, use a train,
if you want to move anything a short distance, use a train/car,
If you want to move light stuff a long distance it doesn't really make much difference.
You and your skis are pretty light in the grand scheme of things.
It's worth taking in to account that most of the research is based on full planes/trains. I don't think I've ever been on a plane which wasn't at least 95% full but I've sat on many a train with only 1 or 2 other people in the carriage, that really starts to screw up your figures.
Don't get me wrong I hate the budget airlines as much as the next man, but they can be useful if you can work around their limitations. Also there are technically baggage limits on the eurostar I believe but I've never seen anyone get questioned about how much stuff they're taking.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arctic Roll, thanks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arctic Roll, Why not stay till the Saturday evening and get a couple more days? You surely aren't having to work on the Friday you get back... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I can take as much shi t as I like and some extra for mates who have to fly cos they live up North
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well if you take the advice above and go on a sleeper so you can lie down, you'll need to be prepared to share your bunk with all your shi t. Still better than sitting up all night, though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowball, sudden change of plan when office realised they could get me... get back to Paris at 6:30 am on the Friday, presentations in Paris at 9am... (flight home to Mrs AR and mini-roll later that evening)
But the conference is going to have to put up with a slightly dishevelled view of the world. 
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