 Poster: A snowHead
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Roads where I am right now are very slippery, some rain last night and heavy snow today. On drive up to lift station had to put chains on after road blocked by other cars on the steepest section. So soon I'm driving a few miles mainly downhill. Roads still snow covered but not deep. So what's best grip, with our without chains? I can see that chains work better for starting off uphill but not so sure downwards. Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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waynos, I cant see the difference. It's all about traction/friction is it not? I would rather have grip going downhill rather than up!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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With, just be careful that you brake slowly, preferably using the engine. Otherwise the rear wheels can overtake the front wheels if you're Front WD.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you need to ask I suggest you keep them on, unless your name is Sebastien Loeb
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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waynos, If you ask,,, dont take the car,, stupid question if your location is in the alpes 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman, I guess your probably right. Just needed some expert advice.
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ON
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waynos, On!!!, a major incident in Wengen losing control going downhill in a series of bends when we should have been using chains, hitting a snowbank punctured a tyre not being able to make the next bend and leaving the road nearly killed us all. Luckily we were able to miss a vehicle coming the other way and ended up smasing through a fence into a field. In my mind we are still sideways with a Nissan Patrol swerving to avoid us; I am still waiting for the impact to this day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm glad Megamum didn't ask this question 
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Ideally with chains on all four wheels. Chains will get you going (in a FWD), chains on the front end won't stop the back end from playing silly games with you.
(If you want to go down a slushy road with no adhesion at all, I cannot stop you, of course.)
Anyway, slowly does it. Assume the brakes don't work at all and drive like that. 1st gear only.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Chains on the driven wheels only, unless you want to look like a right numpty!
BMW drivers are of course exempt from ad iudicium
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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thanks for all the responses. yes I do know where my drive wheels are thanks. I perfectly get chains with deepish layer of snow and ice to grip into but I was concerned this wasn't the case so maybe better on rubber (winters), chains on tarmac are worse than tyres, I think that's a taken, so there's that in between state I was thinking about. As it happens the roads were well covered so no worries with chains. Very rare I've had to crack open the chains. also as James the Last, said with chains only on drive wheels (2 in my case) you've an unbalanced setup, of course going slow helps. I did read up on getting studded tyres for the winter but from what I read they are not seen as better than normal winters except in very icy or constantly compacted snow conditions which is not really the case in my area.
found a similar conversation from a couple of years back. I even posted to it myself.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=48515&start=40
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You know it makes sense.
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James the Last, Do not fit chains 4X4 on all wheels particularly BMW only on rears.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Don't fit chains on all four wheels of a 4x4?.. Why not? For me, it's always been rear wheel drive vehicle - best to have sets for the rear and front, rather than just the rear. FWD vehicles, chains on the front wheels (backs not necessary but can help control downhill for the reasons listed above). 4x4's should use a full set of chains as all four wheels are driven. If you have a set on either the front or the back with a 4x4, then the other wheels are prone to spinning more or less than the other pair which could lead to loss of control (possibly more dangerous having just one set on in some circumstances!). Apologies if I've read your response wrong Cynic 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Chrisssyg, errrm there is no need to fit chains onto all four wheels of a 4x4, the only time I have ever seen it was teh mountain rescue guys when they were having to go up into the ski area at night to bring someone down.
Only need to use them on the front wheels as they are teh ones that steer and brake.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chrisssyg, on 4x4 X5 BMW say only chain rear wheels, I assume to prevent wind up in transmission system?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jeep also recommend rear wheels - Although, unlike Beemers , chains are never actually needed - merely for showing to plod.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There are loads of FAQ's on which wheels to fit chains to, like this one.
I have a 4x4, can't see the point in converting it back to a rear wheel drive in snow.
IMHO, a second pair is negligible cost in the big scheme of things.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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allanm, See previous post, I think chaining all wheels can damage transmission system on some 4X4 hence rears only, check your manufacturer. Not saving cash.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| allanm, See previous post, I think chaining all wheels can damage transmission system on some 4X4 hence rears only, check your manufacturer. Not saving cash. |
Yup, check your handbook.
... however I'd still maintain that the numerous FAQ's on the web are probably correct. In fact, in normal circumstance, one would have thought that chains on one axle only could, maybe, unlikely, perhaps damage transmission, but ONLY if you drive on a hard surface.
It would be good to see the reason why some 4x4 manuals do state to use chains on one axle only, which is basically converting your 4x4 to 2WD on snow.
Is clearance and simply design the problem??
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The troll is an advanced driver, the troll has never needed to fit chains, the troll does own chains (and winter tyres), and the troll left to her own devices with no-one to advise differently would have fitted them on the front and taken it easy esp. when braking.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The troll also manages to confuse IT systems and ends up with double posts!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 17-12-11 21:41; edited 1 time in total
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Megamum, Is that her BMW 1?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Cynic, but of course, and you had better not have scratched it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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allanm, Most 4WD cars use a viscous coupling for their front-rear torque split, quit often an unequal split biased to the front in the case of soft roaders such as CRV, Freelander, XC90, etc and biased to the rear in cars like Cayenne. Fitting chains to the dominant driven axle is preferable, as it's only when the grip on that axles wheels slips that torque is diverted to the other axle. What you don't want is consistently more grip on the non-dominant axle as this could damage the transmission, that's if the electronics don't have a fit first.
marcellus, It's perfectly good practice to fit chains to all 4 wheels on a Defender as the centre differential is mechanical.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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on the down, all you need is near-side non-drive wheel chained up (opposite for the alps of course or on adverse camber)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Cynic wrote: |
| Chrisssyg, on 4x4 X5 BMW say only chain rear wheels, I assume to prevent wind up in transmission system? |
I think that on the X5 the chains can only be fitted to the rear due to a lack of clearance between the front wheels and suspension components. To be honest most X5s will be next to useless in snow due to the wide low profile rubber that many have fitted. Style overruling function. The X5 was never designed as an off road vehicle unlike a Discovery or Range Rover.
For the OP, leave the chains on and crawl down the hill in a low gear, 1st or 2nd, and slow down before the bends, not as you are trying to steer. If you are steering and braking at the same time, you are more likely to loose grip and skid. Remember ABS will not help you stop, all it does is release the brakes to give you a chance of steering. If there is no grip, gravity wins.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Tignes police were not letting anyone leave last Sat - downhill - without chains on. Found the FR drivers useless - crawling around at 10 mph.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chains on the front of AWD Subarus, up and downhill.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mk II Pajero / Shogun - chains on the rear only and lock the diffs only when necessary, i.e. when there is sufficient lack of traction. Otherwise you will experience transmission wind-up which will eventually blow the transfer box. Upside is that it will then be the recovery low-loader driver's problem 
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KIA Sorento, Manual says 'rear wheels only if an emergency' (and I guess you're a tight bu&&er) or 'all four if you really want to get anywhere safely'.
No mention of any possible transmission damage.
I really can't see how putting chains on both axles of a 4x4 could do any damage to the transmission. How are you going to get transmission wind-up in snow?????
To be fair the car is absolutely amazing in snow with wintracs, never actually needed chains and towed a few 'better' vehicles than mine out of trouble.
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| cstreat wrote: |
| Chains on the front of AWD Subarus, up and downhill. |
I believe the reason for that is for added steering control and lack of clearance for chains on the rear, rather than any particular drivetrain issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| allanm wrote: |
I really can't see how putting chains on both axles of a 4x4 could do any damage to the transmission. How are you going to get transmission wind-up in snow?????
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It won't, the referral was to driving with Difflock engaged on surfaces with good traction. It's unlikely that you'd actually get to the point of transmission damage, firstly the steering would become very heavy to the point that it would feel like something is seriously wrong. On mountain roads with lots of sharp corners and reduced traction, one or more wheels would probably spin out any wind up. I've seen tyres destroyed by people driving on dry tarmac with Difflock engaged. A Driveshaft would probably let go before the transmission does.
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| allanm wrote: |
KIA Sorento, Manual says 'rear wheels only if an emergency' (and I guess you're a tight bu&&er) or 'all four if you really want to get anywhere safely'.
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That's interesting, it's relying on the front wheels slipping before it relies on the traction from the rear chained wheels. 
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