 Poster: A snowHead
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Every time you ski/board without a helmet, a kitten dies.
"This post does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my cat. Don't quote me on that. Don't quote me on anything. All rights reserved."
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 14-12-11 21:25; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Every time you ski/board with a helmet, a kitten still dies (not sure if it's the same actual kitten though?). So I guess you just can't win on that score.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| "Every time you ski/board with a helmet, a kitten still dies" |
What if the kitten is wearing a helmet?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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chemistry, depends on how hard it hits the tree. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, looks like this one will be toast then...
Chemistry
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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...indeed, a quick search on Google images seems to suggest that neither cats nor dogs are generally keen helmet wearers when they ski/board.
I can only assume they have assessed the risks and on balance, prefer to feel the wind in their fur. Eye protection seems universally popular though.
Chemistry
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snocat, welcome to snowheads by the way.
Helmets are almost certainly safer than no head protection.
When skiing in trees etc logically there is no reason not to wear more body armour. DH MTB riders wear loads of body armour and often go down the same tracks at similar speeds in the summer as skiers do in winter. Some people think this is OTT. That's their perogative. I broke my back a few years back so I wear as much armour as i can nowadays.
Even if you doubt the safety aspects helmets are more comfortable than hats (they don't creep down over your eyes or get soaked in snow), and if you wear googles you look like a total tool without a helmet.
but as riverman, says, your choice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
if you wear googles you look like a total tool without a helmet
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Since when? 
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| monkey wrote: |
| if you wear googles you look like a total tool without a helmet. |
I'd say you have a pretty strange idea of what makes someone look like a total tool, but maybe that's a common feature of snowheads. Are goggles without helmets better or worse looking than hoods?
Anyway, the combination of goggles and helmet gives people more ways in which to render themselves toolesque... consider where the term 'gaper' came from.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Superb-it will go with all my outfits 
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| dublin1 wrote: |
The one thing that really sold me the idea of a helmet is
In Italy last year,
two skiers collided with each other, I was aboout 50m away, I clearly heard their heads collide. Pretty substantial impact
As they both had helmets, they were not injuired, a couple of mins later, they skied off
Without helmets, I'm not so sure they would have skiied off |
Maybe if they had been looking where they were going they would not have collided in the 1st place? Just a thought ....
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You know it makes sense.
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Forgot to mention this earlier but I've been going to the pub for over 20 years too. Usually arrive there in 1 piece but often fall over on the way home. Should I wear a helmet to go to the pub?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snocat, You sound like the sort of person that needs a helmet at all times.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Snocat, it's up to you. As others have posted if you need to ask.....
On a personal note, I wear one and have replaced previous helmets due to damage. No head injuries though. If you want convincing, spend some time in a head injuries ward.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
spend some time in a head injuries ward
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Is there such a thing? And how did they get their head injuries?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's a lot of parallels with the debates over cycling helmets, and the "i damaged my helmet therefore I would otherwise have been seriously injured" is a favourite there. What's quite telling is that there are so many more people who have experienced helmet damage than there are non-helmet wearers who have experienced serious head injury. Scottish Scrutineer has damaged several helmets (presumably not due to dropping them or leaving them on top of the car). However i don't think anyone on this thread has personally had a serious head injury. Not sure if that's significant, but it mirrors exactly virtually every debate I've seen on cycling helmet use - loads of anecdotal evidence of damaged helmets and almost nobody with experience of serious head injuries.
There's some interesting stuff on here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Statistically showing that helmets prevent or reduce injury is difficult. There are too many variables involved.
Scientifically showing that helmets reduce the forces on the brain is much easier. Helmets do reduce the forces the brain is subjected to. This may not prevent a concussion, but will reduce the seriousness of a concussion.
Have you ever talked to someone who took a serious blow to the head? Last winter I had to help a girl who hit her head on ice. She would ask what happened, and thirty second she would forget and ask again. This continued for more than thirty minutes at which point the paramedics showed up and took her to the hospital. She was planning on heading to Europe on vacation the next day (this happened in the US) but the medics nixed that immediately - no flying with a concussion.
If you think these effects are temporary, my brother suffered a similar concussion in a bicycle crash (he was actually wearing a helmet - I can't imagine how bad it would have been without it). Now a decade later he still feels the effects, his memory has never been the same.
Having said that I'm going skiing this week without a helmet. I'm not skiing trees or ice, so I feel that the risk is acceptable. If I were doing trees or really icy slopes I would definitely wear one.
Regarding the whole body armor - bodies heal better than the brain. It's one thing walking with a limp the rest of your life or wearing a brace, it's another thing entirely not to have a fully functioning brain (of course some may argue that I don't have one to begin with).
Either way it's your choice,
Monti
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| montizano wrote: |
| Scientifically showing that helmets reduce the forces on the brain is much easier. |
Is it really though? Scientifically showing that helmets reduce forces on the brain in the specific circumstances is Easy McPeasy - but if you look at most instances of (cycle) helmets failing the effect on the speed of the brain hitting the skull is effectively zero because the impact is far beyond the foam's ability to absorb/spread deceleration. I haven't seen as much research into ski helmets, but the same argument seem to be being used re ski helmets as has been used around cycling helmets for a long time, and the science seems to suggest (in cycling) that if the impact is enough to cause brain injury (i.e. concussion or worse) then a helmet will make no difference. My kids wear cycling helmets because a superficial scalp injury (which they can protect them from) will potentially put them off cycling for life (a bleeding head to an 11 year old is obviously seen as life threatening!) - but I'm not going to pretend to myself or them that a helmet will stop them injuring their brain if they hit their head on the road, a car or a dry stone wall.
Now I accept that ski helmets are different in design to cycle helmets, so I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but instances of serious head injury in skiing seem to be about as rare as they are in cycling (actually rarer, because people appear to hardly ever get run over by cars whilst skiing) - so that would suggest that the case is about as far from proven as it is in cycling.
Now here's a question:
Are the skiing helmets worn by punters the same as those worn by racers? In cycling they are (indeed I have mates with helmets that cost more than my first road bike because a TdF team wears them) - however the incidence of serious head injury and/or deaths in pro cycling hasn't changed since the introduction of compulsory helmet wearing. Wondered whether it's the same in ski racing?
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schou
schou
Guest
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I look at it like this: I've been riding my bike since I was 3 and I've never been in a accident, but if I was I would hope I was wearing my helmet. In Denmark we never discuss if a helmet would save us on the bike, but now we are all in doubt if it would while skiing 
A helmet can't promise to save you, but it will give you a better chance.
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Why not rent one before you make up your mind whether to buy?
I wore a (rented, free with the ski hire) one last year. It was probably warmer, and didn't impede my skiing in any way. Nor did it save me from injury or death...
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| OldPairOfRaichleBoots wrote: |
| Nor did it save me from injury or death... |
Hrm. You say the helmet failed to save you from death, and yet here you are talking about it.
Something doesn't quite add up there, I just can't quite work out what...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I usually never comment on Helmet debates, however, I just had a phone call from my lad, one of his guests fell yesterday in fresh powder cracked his helmet and ended up with concusion, without the helmet goodness knows what would have happened.
Hope he gets well soon as I know him as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Funnily enough, and as Snow & Rock has 25% off helmets and goggles over the w/e, I bought a Sweet Trooper HC yesterday. I too have never worn one before in my 25 years skiing. My reasons were:
1) The kids wear them.
2) The wife got one last year
3) I will look well cool in mine with some new Smith IO's lol
4) I am thinking of getting a Go Pro
5) It will cover up my thinning hair
6) There is a slight safety thing too when all is said and done and as I get older it is probably no bad thing.
I actually wanted a Smith Vantage but I am really borderline the M and L sizes and the Sweet ended up fitting the best. My slight concern is ending up with a sweat bucket head but I guess I will have to see. It seems very comfortable just around the house though.
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How do people feel about buying a ski helmet online? Apart from the obvious difficulties of getting it delivered (I shall insist on Royal Mail!) and then trying it on to find it doesn't fit and having to return it, are there any other pitfalls and any retailers which are better than others? I have always advised motorcycle helmet purchasers against distance purchasing as you can never be sure how much care is taken with the delivery process, is it the same for ski helmets or are they a bit more robust?
My issue is my only local retailers (Decathlon, Two Seasons, Sportability) have nothing that fits me, within my budget, that I actually like. But there seem to be loads online from distant retailers.
My other option is to wait and see if there's anything worth buying in resort.
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You know it makes sense.
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Based on my experience yesterday and trying loads of others on before that you do need to know what make and size you want. The only other option is to buy a couple and send one back. The problems is that different manufacturers lasts suit different head shapes. So the key seems to be working out which is "your type".
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| livetoski wrote: |
| I usually never comment on Helmet debates, however, I just had a phone call from my lad, one of his guests fell yesterday in fresh powder cracked his helmet and ended up with concusion, without the helmet goodness knows what would have happened. |
Well if the article on the cyclinghelmets site about broken helmets applies to ski helmets he'd probably still have ended up with pretty much the same concussion - however I guess he might have cut his head as well, which can hurt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Therefore from my extensive research, if you are going to headbut trees, wear a ski helmet
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And that is kind of absolutely the point. It's not compulsory to smack your head into a tree, onto a rock or even another person's head. These are things you are better off not doing even with a helmet. Therefore, my warped logic dictates, if you deploy good mountaincraft you should be able to avoid the peril in the first place. There might be the odd freak occurrance but you can't ever be 100% safe eh?
Whenever one of these debates gets going, I'm always impressed by the sheer volume of anecdotal near-death experiences - "If it hadn't been for my Sweet Blah Blah I'd be a vegetable..."... and some people have three or more stories to tell. If you're getting blows to the head that often you're doing something that's putting you in harm's way, and that means, with or without a lid, you're bound to have a biggie sooner or later.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Reecie, I thought as much. The same is true of motorcycle helmets. The shell shapes vary wildly. So buying online is not really a good option unless you buy loads and send them back. Not really viable. But nor is driving the length and breadth of the country to try the pesky things on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've worn a seatbelt every time I've got in a car for the last 30X years. It has done me no good whatsoever. I can accept that, as it's no big deal putting a seatbelt on - and it's law.
IMHO [Ski] Helmets are an uncomfortable PITA, and juggling risk with comfort, I tend only to wear one in certain circumstances - the obvious one being a day skiing on piste.... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've worn one for years, my mate did'nt. We were in Nassfeld & he had a coming togther with a boarder. Both knocked unconscious, both heli'd out to hospital with multiple minor injuries, but the head injuries could have been far worse, luckily they were'nt.
He bought a helmet next time round & has worn one since!
Mine have saved me a few times for sure, but then I ski trees, rocks, steeps the lot, though on piste seems to be far more dangerous at busy places. It's also warm & comfy!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cptsideways, You say coming together with a boarder caused the accident, then you go on about skiing trees, steeps.. the lot.. and then say piste can be far more dangerous.. I'm not seeing the connections?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| livetoski wrote: |
I usually never comment on Helmet debates, however, I just had a phone call from my lad, one of his guests fell yesterday in fresh powder cracked his helmet and ended up with concusion, without the helmet goodness knows what would have happened.
Hope he gets well soon as I know him as well. |
How did he manage to crack his helmet in fresh powder?
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| allanm wrote: |
| Cptsideways, You say coming together with a boarder caused the accident, then you go on about skiing trees, steeps.. the lot.. and then say piste can be far more dangerous.. I'm not seeing the connections? |
I thinks it's what our friends in the Colonies across the Atlantic don't do very well - irony... logically negotiating a minefield of fixed hazards such as trees and rocks ought to be more dangerous whereas the groomed piste is where, anecdotally, more accidents occur, unless one is to get into statistical corrections, i.e. accidents per capita of piste users compared with similar count of off-piste skiers.
What swung it for me was the seemingly innocuous accident suffered by Natasha Richardson (RIP) - fell, banged her head, got up, skied away, later collapsed as result of massive concussion (coup / contrecoup injury), died... I concluded that you're a long time dead so why hasten that appointment?
Personal choice though - ultimately do what you believe is sensible and let everyone else take the same decision process.
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andyph,
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How did he manage to crack his helmet in fresh powder?
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I am still waiting for full report and a photo, but I guess that he fell onto his ski 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| allanm wrote: |
| Cptsideways, You say coming together with a boarder caused the accident, then you go on about skiing trees, steeps.. the lot.. and then say piste can be far more dangerous.. I'm not seeing the connections? |
It's not what you're going to hit, it's who's going to collide with you that you've really got to worry about.
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andy,
A couple of your comments seem to be aimed at people like me that think helmets have protected them in accidents. I read the stuff on cyclehelmets.org and although I don't doubt there are some cycling accidents in which
a) a blow to a helmet happened that would not have occurred to a naked head (helmet worse than useless although unlikely to be dangerous)
b) blows to helmets that effectively swamp the helmets ability to protect (helmet useless)
I still feel that in my two crashes the helmet performed exactly as advertised. This makes me personally convinced that in some types of crash, helmets can save you from concussion. I also think there are real benefits in saving you from nasty cuts and grazes.
Both my two crashes were similar. They involved front wheel skids on patches of diesel or engine oil (invisible before the crash, visible when I went back and looked). I don't know if you've ever lost the front wheel but it all happens quite suddenly! One moment you are steering through a bend, the next the fork just starts to rotate in the head set as the tyre loses all traction. You have time to think "oh no...." then the tyre grips again somewhat perpendicular to your direction of travel. The effect is that your head tube then dives very fast towards the tarmac. I mean very fast. One driver who stopped said "it happened so quickly, one moment you were fine, the next you were in a heap". Both times I broke my fall with the patch of helmet over my left temple. It made a hell of a bang. The foam crushed to about half it's orginal thickness and had small cracks. The helmets remained in one piece. I felt a little disorentated for a few minutes and had a very slight headache for a couple of hours. Both times I needed to go into A&E for other injuries.
A thing to appreciate that although I was travelling at between 15 and 20mph in each case, the impact on my head would have been very similar if I'd been stationary sitting on my bike and fallen/forward sideways onto my head. I'm pretty sure that would be enough to give you concussion.
Like I said earlier, I think its down to personal preference. I don't think helmets are a panacea and if I found them too expensive or uncomfortable then I'd probably not wear one but given I don't, seems to me that they provide a bit of useful protection at minimal cost, financial or otherwise.
J
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