 Poster: A snowHead
|
Couple of months ago I was at the SIGB Ski Test in Kuhtai, Austria along with the likes of Fall Line, Daily Telegraph and a whole host of retailers.
Over 800 skis were "tested" from 20 brands previewing Winter 16/17. There were 180 testers from 33 UK ski retailers and six ski media.
The OH has waded through the pooled results from all categories of ski such as All Mountain through to Piste Skis.
I know a fair number of SnowHeads will be going to the EOSB in VT where some of these skis might be available to try.
So this article features the final "pooled" results and an explanation of how they are arrived at.
There were some obvious brands not present such as DPS etc
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Not very well explained I think - so the Armada Victa is the best All mountain ski but considering its performance overall (presumably in piste, freeride and nig mountain conditions it drops off the list and the Kaestle makes the top slot despite not featuring in category? What the hell does All mtn mean then other than a marketing buzzword?
Also have a bit of suspicion of inherent brand bias given the apparent overrepresentation of Volkl in the selections and underrepresentation of brands like Blizzard and Nordica that at least the yankjs rave about. And what about the brands that punters actually buy like Rossi, Salomon and Dynastar? Seems oddthat they aren't represented even if equipment snobs might not rate them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, all the mainstream brands you mention were there with a large presence, just that for whatever reason they did not make the final cut as it were.
There are sheets of A4 with all the results from every ski tested.........
PS don't shoot the messenger we're only publishing the results 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Volkl had a good brown envelope.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Haha only two of the skis I tested made it into the rankings at all (Nocta and Scrapper)! Both of which I thought were great. I only managed to get on the 183 Scrapper (would have preferred the 190), but was impressed by its stability.
@Dave of the Marmottes, as above, all the brands were there and being tested pretty thoroughly from what I saw (Dynastar were offering incentives to test too). Lots of people (at least from Fall Line) were very positive about Blizzard, so I'm surprised they didn't make the overall list. Scott too seemed very popular. Re. Rossi, personally I rated the Soul/Super 7 HD as about the most fun skis I've ever been on, and general feedback from others was similar, so again, I'm surprised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I think the Soul 7 is really fun and every punter type person I've ever spoken to skiing them seems to love them. Yet purists criticise the floppiness and non-charginess. I think there is a fundamental disconnect when it comes to ski ratings and rankings between the pros/serious amateurs who test them and the people who actually buy/rent them. Volkl I think make nice skis but generally for strong skiers for example.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, that's an interesting point about the pros having a different opinion about the skis from the people who actually buy them. When I was in Monetier in January there was a ski test that was only open to people who work in ski shops, and not to instructors etc. The instructor I was with was saying this was unfair, saying "And besides! Most of those people can't even ski and don't know what they're looking for!" At the time I agreed with him but you've got me thinking. Maybe a certain amount of ignorance could actually be a good thing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, I agree with your point re. ability of testers, but at least amongst the Fall Line team there were testers right along the spectrum for relatively new to truly excellent. I think that was broadly the case with other teams too, so not sure it's too relevant in this case. Of course size also comes into play regardless of ability too.
I think there's also a problem with the categories though. The Rossi skis are firmly on the playful side of the all mountain spectrum, and Blizzard/Völkl firmly on the chargey. That doesn't make either better/worse all mountain skis than the other, just better/worse for different styles/terrain/conditions/approaches. I've been guilty of slagging off the Rossis in the past for being too soft, and while they are too soft for serious crud-busting, they're a lot more fun than crud-busters in other conditions. Lumping them together with e.g. Cochises just 'cos the waist width is the same doesn't make sense, as they're not designed to do the same job. But lots of people are guilty of looking first at width when deciding intended function.
Then you have one category called Big Mountain that's supposed to include powder and big mountain skis, which to my mind are totally different animals...
Personally I think a simple ranking of skis is fairly pointless - tests and reviews are only useful when you can compare the details of how different skis perform qualitatively rather than quantitatively. It's the feel and characteristics that matter, and that can't be expressed meaningfully in numbers.
I really like how Blister review skis for this reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@clarky999, @Weathercam, how did you guys get an invite to the tests?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@kitenski, ..."Trade",...... I got an invite via Scott.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@kitenski, in our case it's because we're classified as media and had to be recommended and invited, and was our second year attending.
And from the test itself various articles featuring skis & equipment are produced, below are just a couple
Ski Touring the Percentage Game
A year on on the ski touring world
I too am a tad cynical about "tests" per se especially as tests should be relevant to the conditions at any given time.
I think I was the only person testing touring skis going up as well as down, only concentrating on skis mounted with tech bindings as opposed to frame. And the conditions from one day to another were chalk and cheese.
I've worked alongside a major windsurfing / kiting brand for a long while and raise the same questions about ski tests that I do about windsurfing tests be it boards / sails as one piece of kit will handle totally differently depending on the conditions it's been designed for but will often not be tested in.
Where the actual "Test" is worthwhile is that with a large percentage of brands in one location you can see where the market is going and how the sport is developing and what are the trends, last year was very much about "Touring", though in all the touring I've done this season I have not seen what I saw last year reflected on the mountain.
If you're a roadie cyclist and look through a UK mag it's all about disc brakes, come out to the mountains and you hardly see any 
@Dave of the Marmottes, The Rossi Soul 7 was right up there in the top 5 along with the Sky7 and were some of the most tested skis in terms of numbers of people along with the Salomon QST99 and Dynastar Cham 2.0 97 all achieving top results, so don't fret too much. In fact if awards were to be given for the skis tested the most these would be at the top from the looks of things!
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 1-04-16 14:29; edited 5 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@kitenski, I knew one of the Fall Line staff (who lives just outside Innsbruck) as they've posted some of my articles in the past, who invited me.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 1-04-16 15:18; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
cheers guys. Interesting the Volkl Code L does well, got a 12/13 pair 2 seasons ago at the end of season sales and am liking them more and more every time I ski on them!!
Where Whitedot and/or any other smaller brands at the tests??
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@kitenski, Whitedot and DPS were not there, but there were a few other indy brands (like last year) giving it a go but it is very difficult to become established, and you have to remember that it is the GB industry test, so not a massive market compared to other countries!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Weathercam wrote: |
| @kitenski, Whitedot and DPS were not there, but there were a few other indy brands (like last year) giving it a go but it is very difficult to become established, and you have to remember that it is the GB industry test, so not a massive market compared to other countries! |
Conclusive proof then that the likes of the Oktobertest are better than the industry test
AIUI the purposes of the tests is predominantly to convince retail buyers to go big on your range ( with a bit of getting influencers like Fall Line and TS&S onboard with the models that will actually be in the shops). Indies like Whitedot and DPS are more demand "pull" as I see it. Don't know quite what Black Crows now constitutes - indy but with some quite wide distn in Europe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Thanks very much for putting up these links. Interesting read.
I changed to Black Diamond Link 105 with Vipec black bindings about a month ago and had real fun and games getting into the toe bindings at first, having been used to frame bindings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Weathercam wrote: |
| @kitenski, Whitedot and DPS were not there, but there were a few other indy brands (like last year) giving it a go but it is very difficult to become established, and you have to remember that it is the GB industry test, so not a massive market compared to other countries! |
AIUI the purposes of the tests is predominantly to convince retail buyers to go big on your range ( with a bit of getting influencers like Fall Line and TS&S onboard with the models that will actually be in the shops). Indies like Whitedot and DPS are more demand "pull" as I see it. Don't know quite what Black Crows now constitutes - indy but with some quite wide distn in Europe? |
Yep this is correct, as I understand it - it's a chance for retailers to test skis/boots and decide what to stock. I'm not sure if WD are sold in shops or just online atm (like Down), but that could be one reason they weren't there. Faction were also there, but they're getting a bit beyond what I'd normally class as 'indie' now...
Black Crows are certainly ambitions and growing. They are really actively working on building a big ambassador network and increasing distribution - more shops seem to stock them now than not. I'm guessing they must be quite well funded (esp. bring out an outerwear line), but they've also done a really excellent job of building the brand. I'm not sure how many offices they have, but it's at least one in Innsbruck, presumably one in Cham (or nearby).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
I'm not sure if WD are sold in shops or just online atm (like Down), but that could be one reason they weren't there. Faction were also there, but they're getting a bit beyond what I'd normally class as 'indie' now... |
Ellis Brigham stock a small selection of Whitedot skis, and I've seen them sold locally in one of the independents (though they are essentially a local brand up here in West Yorks). There are probably others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@clarky999, Kirschbaum in St. Anton stock Whitedot, but you don't see them anywhere near as much as Black Crows in that part of the world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
A proper WC racing ski from just about any manufacturer will blow away the "best" piste skis in the review.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| hyperkub wrote: |
| A proper WC racing ski from just about any manufacturer will blow away the "best" piste skis in the review. |
And most recreational skiers would hate it. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That illustrates the point about "best" having a lot to do with the strength and ability of the skier....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| hyperkub wrote: |
| That illustrates the point about "best" having a lot to do with the strength and ability of the skier.... |
Exactly. The best ski for me is probably different to the best ski for someone else.
Also, in the context of a ski test for retailers "best" has more to do with what will sell best - obviously a ski needs to get good reviews to sell well, but price, graphics, brand and marketing by the manufacturer have a lot to do with it too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@clarky999, OH didn't feature any skis that had three or less tests.
Just been going through the individual scores for some skis and looking at the Big Mountain category - what is obvious is how few testers there were in this category when comparing to others.
The Nocta: only 4 tests - overall performance within category 9.0 / and overall performance 8.8
The Scrapper 115: 7 tests and 8.8 and 8.8 respectively
Whilst the V-weks BMT 109 had the most tests at 8
The Freeride category had far far more actual tests.
With the BC Atris 14 tests, Cham 97 22 tests, Rossi Sky7 30 tests, Soul 7 20 tests and the Salomon QST 99 25 tests !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@hyperkub,
| Quote: |
A proper WC racing ski from just about any manufacturer will blow away the "best" piste skis in the review.
|
Genuine question this but if you are not skiing on a closed piste, would a FIS GS ski with say 35m radius really be better to ski, even for an expert, than a top end non-FIS piste ski? Basically I'm wondering if a lot of time you just wouldn't have the space to use it like it was designed for.
I'd like to have a go - never skied on one 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Genuine question this but if you are not skiing on a closed piste, would a FIS GS ski with say 35m radius really be better to ski, even for an expert, than a top end non-FIS piste ski? Basically I'm wondering if a lot of time you just wouldn't have the space to use it like it was designed for.
I'd like to have a go - never skied on one [/quote]
Even in the busiest resort if you get out first lift and hit the right spots you can have 30mins of empty & often quite firm corduroy to enjoy to yourself - try the home run in many resorts and you might get an hour plus. An FIS ski might still spank your back bottom though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I (think) I rented a non-FIS GS (Head) for the Inferno GS this year and it was (at 185) disappointingly unresponsive and a bit sloppy, compared to skiing a few days on my own FIS GS 185s last week.
Mind you, I find my 203 SGs remarkably skiable, even in knee deep powder.
Race skis aren't beasts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Even in the busiest resort if you get out first lift and hit the right spots you can have 30mins of empty & often quite firm corduroy to enjoy to yourself - try the home run in many resorts and you might get an hour plus
|
not sure I'd want to ski all day on one just for that window though? Don't think I've ever been bothered to switch skis mid-morning
| Quote: |
An FIS ski might still spank your back bottom though.
|
Oh I acknowledge that is a risk! I'm not quite sure how that would show itself though? If you roll them on to a decent edge angle they are going to carve aren't they?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
I'm not sure if WD are sold in shops or just online atm (like Down), but that could be one reason they weren't there. |
My Zero Ones came from a shop, well ok it was the Piste Office but a bricks and mortar retailer none the less!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Re racing skis etc - at the SIGB test I did go out of my way to test the ISPO 2016 award winning ski - Fischer – The CURV
See blurb below - I found the ski needed to be skied really fast, and that's something I'm not used to as I'm not that confident on piste with people around going at that sort of speed (as per the comments above) the ski I felt required.
That said was so different to all the skis I have which are all primarily light weight touring / Big mountain skis and I do admire those piste dudes cranking super lay down GS turns on the corduroy getting an edge when I'm all over the place.
But damn feckin expensive !!
http://www.ispo.com/en/products/id_76717302/ispo-award-2016-2017-gold-winners-ski.html/vid_5
Fischer – The CURV Category: Ski on Piste
Extremely similar to the professional equipment from the World Cup, but still suitable for the slopes: THE CURV makes extreme performance manageable with a high-quality technology package: Triple Radius enables previously unattained dynamic turns, the Progressive Sidecut concept means the ski has the optimum dimensions for the preferred skiing style, and the DiagotexTM carbon laminate known from racing makes sure that the torsion is perfect.Jurystatement: This ski offers Worldcup technology to every ambitious skier. Thanks to its triple radius, the CURV is solid and precise in every turn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Re racing skis etc - at the SIGB test I did go out of my way to test the ISPO 2016 award winning ski - Fischer – The CURV
|
Is that a real FIS race ski? Isn't the RC4 FIS still the full fat option?
I'm not suggesting it isn't a pretty sporty ski just that even that may be less of a handful than what I was talking about (probably shorter radii and less stiff)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
