 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks,
I'm brand new to Snowheads. It's actually been almost 20 years since I last went skiing. My wife and I are going to Yellowstone in February. While there won't be any downhill  we do plan to do quite a bit of x-country and snowshoeing. We are trying to get outfitted with good equipment since it is likely to be quite cold. (Possibilities of highs below 0 degrees F) We already know all about layering, but I'm having trouble figuring out what jacket to look at. I've got an old (20+ year) Columbia shell that I loved when I skied frequently. (I used to live in Salt Lake.)
Is Gore-Tex still king? In looking at the Columbia products, they are now using their Omni-Tech technology. I've seen really bad reviews of it. That surprises me since I always had good luck with Columbia.
I'm still debating whether to get another shell (hard? or soft?) or just get what is now called a 3-in-1 jacket.
Please, any recommendations are welcome!
Thanks!
Tom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Easy -buy mine: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=82207
Seriously, it really depends on what you want to use it for? Go for hard shell if you think you're going to use it more in 'wet' environments (walking in rain, skiing in places like the pacific west coast). Softshell breathes MUCH better than and breathable so it's great for high aerobic activities like back country skiing.
I don't like 3-1's as they tend to be a compromise and usually only use a fleece instead of a softshell. The best system is a light hardshell (like the new Goretex GTX Proshell) and then layer a thin softshell. That way you can always have both available for changing conditions.
See here: ARC'TERYX Greg Hill: Softshell vs Hardshell from ARC'TERYX http://vimeo.com/17453444
Lastly, try to avoid generalizations about brands. All brands make some good products and not so good. Review and compare the particular piece your interested in. Don't forget that fit is very important and probably more important that technical specifications. I love Norrona gear because it fit's me better but I used to always wear Arcteryx. BTW, you will save a tonne of cash if you buy in the U.S. when you're over there -especially in February as much of it will already be on end of season clearance.
Hope that helps.
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I've not skiied in goretex for a long time, and my wallet is a lot happier for it. I'm also a lot less rustly, and my gear lasts longer too. Very cold, dry, powdery snow and well below freezing temperatures mean getting wet is tricky.
3in1s are rubbish. Just get a separate fleece and shell if that's the sort of thing you want... but at those temperatures unless you're getting some very warm fleece (high loft fluffy thermal pro) you'd be much better off with down or an insulated jacket. Unless you're expecting rain, I'd almost always recommend softshell over hardshell for the outer layer. Feels nicer, fits better (if its stretchy) doesn't have a waterproof membrane in it to wear out. It also breathes much better if you're doing anything strenuous.
If you go for ski-specific gear you'll pay a premium. If you look elsewhere you'll lose out on the delightful* colourschemes and occasionally handy features like powder skirts, but you may save yourself a few pennies. How rich do you feel? 
*may not be at all delightful, in any way.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, Sorry, I've never heard of inner membranes 'wearing out,' whilst I have heard of Goretex kit lasting 10+ years of hard use and abuse. You are aware Goretex have their own 'lifetime dry guarantee' above and beyond the manufactures warranty, right? The new hard shells aren't as crisp packet rustly as they use to be, although they still aren't as breathable as softshells.
I reckon a down jacket has to be the way forwards for the OP though. Take a look at Mountain Equipment - being more a climbers brand, you get the same top notch specs, but without the premium prices kit labelled as ski seem to get. Still get the funky colour schemes too 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've had two jackets fail on me over about 10 years, one goretex, one not. Symptoms of wearing out included getting absolutely soaked to the skin right through the fabric... definitely not the result of punctured membranes or condensation! I often use them with rucksacks and I can understand the fabric over the shoulders being damaged, but I've had other odd things like the forearms leaking... not a high wear area! Conversations with the manufacturer and various attempts to restore waterproofness didn't come to anything. I did not attempt to claim on the goretex guarantee. I think my most modern hardshell is made of goretex pro-shell; not exactly plastic mac like but compared to my stretchy or paramo softshell gear it may as well be made of binbags
I got my other half a Mountain Equipment Lightline down jacket two years ago, and they've been very happy with it. It isn't the most amazing jacket in the world, but it does the job and you'll reliably find em on sale every year for a reasonable price (I paid either slightly below or slightly above £100, I don't remember which).
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Wow Serriadh... you must be hard on your stuff? I've owned probably a dozen 'Goretex' jackets/pants over the last 15 years and I have never had one 'fail'. I do tend to change my equipment around but some of the pieces have been gifted to friends and they are still going strong. I also buy high quality garments. There's lots of 'cheap' stuff with Goretex out there and people think it's all the same, but I guess your experience proves my point. I cannot imagine a situation where you would get soaked to the skin wearing a (quality) goretex (or any other waterproof breathable) membrane produced in the last ten or so years.
FWIW, my fly fishing waders are goretex and even standing waist deep in water for hours on end has not caused them to 'fail' in over 5 years of use. In fact, I've not even had one single leak!
I'll state it again: I'm not saying Goretex is the be-all-and-end-all! For most days a soft shell with a water repellent coating is fine. BUT there will be conditions where only a membrane will protect you (as per the video above).
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Hello clarky999,
There are probably dozens of alleged waterproof/permeable membrane materials
such as Goretex, Event, and manufacturers own brand stuff, such as Hyvent, Triple
point ceramic etc on the market. Some 3 layer, some 2 layer etc, some may be bomb proof, some are not. my wife and myself have had the inside layer of lightweight jackets sort of flake off after a couple of years use around the neck and shoulder area. TNF and Lowe Alpine own brand waterproof fabrics to name but two. I'm currently giving Montane waterproofs a go-we'll see how they wear in fullness of time.(Event fabric btw).
for the OP if Mountain Equipment is available in the states i would recommend their fitzroy (i think it's called) insulated jacket. Not down though, it's primaloft.Used one for all sorts for last 3 years and still in top nick. £150 ish, got it half price at go outdoors. I'd pay more than full price to replace it.
cheers Geoff
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I could go on a bit about waterproof fabric types, but I don't want to accidentally start preaching to the choir. Roughly speaking, any moderately expensive modern waterproof fabric is going to be pretty darn good. There's no need to go overboard with buying the most expensive goretex proshell you can find (not that anyone was suggesting this, mind you) when any of the ones Geoff listed are excellent. Don't go for 2 layer though, unless its the outer face of an insulated jacket... its for lightweight hiking gear in wet weather, and tends to need more care than 3 layer fabric. Similarly, I wouldn't use the newest superlight fabrics either (goretex active shell, etc) because they're very expensive and not as robust as heavier materials.
I don't think I'm particularly hard on my stuff, as it mostly gets used for hiking... I'm not a hardcore climber or mountaineer. I don't use it anywhere near as much as I used to, having moved to a significantly dryer part of the UK! Maybe I was just unlucky. I'm just much happier using non-membrane gear, because you can repair it with a needle and thread when you damage it, and reproofing is relatively straightforward.
I'll take issue with the 'only a membrane can protect you' line, though... there's some old, unsexy non-membrane fabrics that have been used in Scottish winters for donkey's years for stuff like ice climbing where you risk getting very wet, and very cold. Paramo and Buffalo make this sort of gear. If you don't risk getting wet, there are all sorts of windproofing options which are cheaper, lighter, comfier and more packable than goretex. I guess heavy, crinkly stiff hardshells like the one in the video above do give a fair amount of psychological protection as well as weatherproofing
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