 Poster: A snowHead
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| wigan wrote: |
Slightly off track, but could be combined with ideas in discussion...
I want an app for smartphones that you can use to simply scan the barcode of any product on the shelf of any shop, it immediately searches (either the whole net, or perhaps a bunch of retailers linked with the app), shows you who has the best price for it or its equivalent (including delivery), then you press a button and your order is placed instantly (as the app company already has your payment and delivery details).
So you can still physically go on a browsing shopping trip (which some of us do actually like) but buy stuff at the guarenteed best price, and not have to carry it home!
Does that exist? (I can't think why argos/amazon doesn't already offer it just indexing their own stuff!) |
So tell me what is the benefit to a retailer keeping anything physical on their shelves if a numpty like you is going to walk in to their shop, scan the barcode of their stock and buy it elsewhere ? All you will end up doing is finish shops holding physical stock and therefore end the chance to go on a browsing shopping trip ( which you do like!)
The net fine for shopping as long as you realise the more you use it the quicker you will kill the high street and those specialist shops that have the knowledge and skill that you need to make sure what you are buying is right for you!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| wigan wrote: |
Slightly off track, but could be combined with ideas in discussion...
I want an app for smartphones that you can use to simply scan the barcode of any product on the shelf of any shop, it immediately searches (either the whole net, or perhaps a bunch of retailers linked with the app), shows you who has the best price for it or its equivalent (including delivery), then you press a button and your order is placed instantly (as the app company already has your payment and delivery details).
So you can still physically go on a browsing shopping trip (which some of us do actually like) but buy stuff at the guarenteed best price, and not have to carry it home!
Does that exist? (I can't think why argos/amazon doesn't already offer it just indexing their own stuff!) |
This almost already exists. Mrs Monium uses it - you scan the barcode, it finds the product through Google or something, and then directs you to Google Shopping or Amazon. Then you have the price on the internet, and you can negotiate with the store to match the price or you'll buy off the web. Most of the big stores are on Google Shopping.
Every store we've tried it with to date, including national chains, when presented with a lower cost for an identical product, has negotiated and given us either the same price or chuffing close, allowing for shipping costs (so if the shipping is £9.99 they'll get the internet shop and add £9.99 to it)
Even better if the shop you buy it from has a mechanism to ship it to you, but that adds to their cost (shipping it) and doesn't reduce their overheads (because they still have to hold loads of stock)
Failing the barcode thing, just type the name of the product into Google Shopping through your web browser and you'll find it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flet©h, now you are thinking like a winner. It is a brand. It is worth money. People will pay a premium for an item they percieve to be luxury, like having someone measure you up for your clothes instead of having to try on a load of stuff (similar to ski boots I guess, you could find a good fit eventually, but the fitter is providing a service in removing the time taken to find the closest match, and then customising it a bit)
We are not offering anything unique. Except you don't need to actually go online when you get home and order it. We'll do that for you in the shop. No hard feelings either, because you are ordering on the internet, but the shop benefits because they are part of the chain. Like buying from Sports Direct online after going in and finding what I want, it is ok because the big company gets the money. Except there is a chance that I don't buy from Sports Direct, or that I don't go on the internet when I get home at all.
And you assume that my product is available online. I am the only supplier. The clothes are my brand. The fitters work for me. You can, indeed, go online and buy them, but only from me, or perhaps ebay if you want secondhand clothes.
I was only kidding when I said you were being silly. You are actually being really quite sensible. Like a friendly helpful business uncle or something. I'd offer you a job, but I don't actually have any intention of spending millions of pounds setting up a business like this.
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marksovereign, this is a slightly tongue-in-cheek discussion  I take your point about the more you use it, the more you'd kill the High St, but I suspect we are ultimately going that way!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| wigan wrote: |
| marksovereign, this is a slightly tongue-in-cheek discussion I take your point about the more you use it, the more you'd kill the High St, but I suspect we are ultimately going that way! |
Its a pet hate of mine ( and im really not trying to single you out) The idea of an App that does that is absolutely nind numbing. People going elsewhere for a fiver and wondering why theres no shops in their town any more! Scandalous!
I have a mate who owns a cycle shop - has people coming in for advice - then they go to buy their bikes from Halfords when they go wrong ( because they are so cheap and cr*p) he has to put them right and put up with people moaning about the cost!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| marksovereign wrote: |
Its a pet hate of mine ( and im really not trying to single you out) The idea of an App that does that is absolutely nind numbing. People going elsewhere for a fiver and wondering why theres no shops in their town any more! Scandalous!
I have a mate who owns a cycle shop - has people coming in for advice - then they go to buy their bikes from Halfords when they go wrong ( because they are so cheap and cr*p) he has to put them right and put up with people moaning about the cost! |
Conversely I've had shops try and rip me off for hundreds of pounds before. A quick google and suddenly they offer to match the price, and I don't get ripped off any more. If everyone did it, then the shops would reconsider their pricing. They have to compete with the internet. Might as well help them to do so sooner rather than later. Going elsewhere for a fiver is silly, when the shop adds some value, but when that comes to £20, £30, £40, where do you draw the line?
If your mate can't compete with Halfords, he needs to either stick to repairs and be grateful that the customers don't just take them back to Halfords to get ripped off fixing them, instead choosing to take them to him for repairs and keeping him in business.
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marksovereign, There's more than enough bike geeks supporting LBSs for at least 2 new ones to open up locally to me in the past couple of years. Halfords are in a totally different segment of the market, competing more with Tesco & Asda although even bike snobs seem to admit that the Boardmans are good value for the money.
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wigan, yes the app is out there in theroy every merchant selling via Google shopping, has to include a MPN or EAN or ISBN as you might have seen the google shopping channel has lost, over the last 2 months, more than half of the retialers who were advertising on it.
This is because Google is working towards this and has/is enforcing stricter policy on the merchants and their code feeds.
The big however is, as has been proved over many years, consumers do not buy on price alone, but also on comaprision, with other products and own label products and service.
A classic example was in the 80's when ASDA dropped some branded breakfast cerals and only sold their own label, they found that after a very short period of time that their own label sales of the same products dropped significantly and that consumers changed to other branded products, when they re introduced the braned alternative to their own label the sales of branded products and own label products increased. Why are there no own label only stores any more, I wonder!! Buyers will only buy a brand when they have something to compare it against, its not a luxury if its not on the shelf to buy!!!
Monium, The halford case is not relevant when compared to an independent retailer, independents will never be able to buy at the same price as national companies, Hlafords and the like retail with retro discounts on volumne and also buy FOB china and hong kong plus a whole host of other price drivers, which most independents wil never be able to do.
Why does your little independent grocer have higher prices, its because they can not buy at the same price as Tesco Asda etc. Tesco and Asda only work on economy of scale, their profit margins are tiny compared to what a local shop needs.
THe other issue is that, the big five gorcery retailers are setting up local shops, charging more money for the goods than their larger stores, just like the small independents but are still buying at a lower price. In the next 20 years or so, there will be very few if any local grocers or general stores.
Each market segment reaches maturity along a different time scale, supermarket and grocers are reaching theirs and operations like Tesco are now opening local shops, garages and any thing else they can to use the power of their brand name to sell product or services.
So what is the point of all this, consumers have to be prepared to pay a higher price in independant shops, for increased customer service and expert knowledge of the products they are selling, if all retailers price match to the lowest price then the only winner will be the larger multi national stores, as the independants will go out of business, and then the only choice will be to buy from the multi nationals and all they will do is increase their prices because they have no competition, so the biggest loser will be us the consumer.
 Sorry but dealing with buyers, over many years at director level of many of the major UK retailers makes you a little cynical
There is a alternative, small specialised companies offering what ever the big boys are not interested in, however the trick is as soon as the big boys get involved with these niche products you have to sell up and get out and find something else to do.
Business theroy over for tonight 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Monium wrote: |
| marksovereign wrote: |
Its a pet hate of mine ( and im really not trying to single you out) The idea of an App that does that is absolutely nind numbing. People going elsewhere for a fiver and wondering why theres no shops in their town any more! Scandalous!
I have a mate who owns a cycle shop - has people coming in for advice - then they go to buy their bikes from Halfords when they go wrong ( because they are so cheap and cr*p) he has to put them right and put up with people moaning about the cost! |
Conversely I've had shops try and rip me off for hundreds of pounds before. A quick google and suddenly they offer to match the price, and I don't get ripped off any more. If everyone did it, then the shops would reconsider their pricing. They have to compete with the internet. Might as well help them to do so sooner rather than later. Going elsewhere for a fiver is silly, when the shop adds some value, but when that comes to £20, £30, £40, where do you draw the line?
If your mate can't compete with Halfords, he needs to either stick to repairs and be grateful that the customers don't just take them back to Halfords to get ripped off fixing them, instead choosing to take them to him for repairs and keeping him in business. |
My point here is not the price but the fact that you would probably quite happily chat to an expert about what you were buying then go and buy on line which is wrong at every level. On the other hand if the local shop is trying lft your leg totally then they deserve to be bypassed. The extra £20 you paid locally can sometimes pay divdends when theres a problem.
Ps Halfords dont fix them!
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| marksovereign wrote: |
My point here is not the price but the fact that you would probably quite happily chat to an expert about what you were buying then go and buy on line which is wrong at every level. |
This is precisely the point. For most of the things I buy I can't think of anything worse than chatting to a supposed "expert" whose positive opinion is confined to the brands his/her shop stocks when I can get a vast range of consumer experience from the internet. The exception for me is things like bootfitting when I have to find someone I trust to do a good job by reputation. I particularly dislike "local monopoly" stores that previously had the market sown up in a particular area and therefore don't feel the need to offer great service or value. Thankfully the internet has seen most of the poorer ones off as well as, no doubt those that deserved to stay in business but were in a particualrly aggressive sector.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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livetoski, A lot of what you say makes sense, but a lot of it is a bit defeatist and sounds as if you have swallowed the Tesco PR line.
| Quote: |
| Why are there no own label only stores any more, I wonder!! Buyers will only buy a brand when they have something to compare it against, its not a luxury if its not on the shelf to buy!!! |
There are many many own label stores, the entire clothing sector on the high street, the body shop, M&S to name a few. The Asda cereal example you gave is relevant to Asda as Asda is a low end brand.
| Quote: |
| Why does your little independent grocer have higher prices, its because they can not buy at the same price as Tesco Asda etc. Tesco and Asda only work on economy of scale, their profit margins are tiny compared to what a local shop needs. |
This is partly true, in particular the crazy thin margins, but have you ever checked the prices vs your local independent, especially on fresh food such as meat, fruit and vegetables. The supermarkets have been very successful at producing a perception of value though loss leader pricing on staples and booze but for fresh goods it is almost always cheaper to shop locally for fresh food if you have a local butcher, fishmonger or greengrocer who isn't just a top of the market specialist pandering to the rich shopper who wants to be seen.
Similarly where supermarkets have expanded their range beyond food they often don't provide value vs the specialist if you ignore the killer deals aimed at the lazy shopper.
It is quite possible to compete with the supermarkets in almost every sector apart from general groceries and booze.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| marksovereign wrote: |
My point here is not the price but the fact that you would probably quite happily chat to an expert about what you were buying then go and buy on line which is wrong at every level. |
This is precisely the point. For most of the things I buy I can't think of anything worse than chatting to a supposed "expert" whose positive opinion is confined to the brands his/her shop stocks when I can get a vast range of consumer experience from the internet. The exception for me is things like bootfitting when I have to find someone I trust to do a good job by reputation. I particularly dislike "local monopoly" stores that previously had the market sown up in a particular area and therefore don't feel the need to offer great service or value. Thankfully the internet has seen most of the poorer ones off as well as, no doubt those that deserved to stay in business but were in a particualrly aggressive sector. |
Theres an awful lot of B%ll&cks talked on the net by supposed experts and bad news always travels quicker than good news. A recommendation is always best but in the case of a good boot fitter hes not going to be around if you buy off the net. You have to support specialists otherwise you lose them! So basically dont moamn if you get charged £50 to try boots on as a fitters time is money
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You know it makes sense.
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We charge 50 euros to say Hello. Frickin Public!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't think it is such a bad idea, if things like charging to try boots on kept local shops competitive or even just alive then i wouldn't have a problem paying £20/£30 to try loads of boots on and subsequently didn't buy anything, if they are providing a decent service then fair enough.
I think that maybe we are not the best people to ask, it's the people who think price is king (those who have no interest in skiing outside their week/s in france etc) you would need to convince to make it a goer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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roga, SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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Hope you charge extra for that tho
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Reminds me of Monty Python "is this the 5 mins argument or the full half hour"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The barcode app is called Redlaser, I'm sure others are available. It does amuse me slightly with the barcode thing especially when retailers are falling over themselves to put QR codes on things so customer can find out more about products.
I use Redlaser. Not religiously for every purchase but when I remember. I think it's actually led to me buying more things there and then as opposed to looking in a shop and then thinking "I'll go home and see what I can get that for". I did manage to get £30 off at Go Outdoors for a coat for the OH when it said they price matched.
As for bike shops giving advice then people going to Halfords..... generally a local bike shop is in a different market to Halfords. Most people who would buy from Halfords get a bit of a shock at the prices of a quality bike, so go in there, ask a few questions to be polite (usually because they've been asked if they need any help), then wander off to Halfords. It does provide a good business to a lot of local bike shops fixing, fitting or putting together poor bikes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think a bifurcated model is shaking out - there will continue to be a segment for those stores in whatever sphere that can add real value but those that have just relied on local monopolies without any other differentiation will continue to struggle if they're not dead already. Exception seems to be candle and nick nack shops which the world seems to have an insatiable appetite for. I'd be surprised nowadays if many people making a major purchase just walk into a shop and take the sales assistant's word for it without internet research etc unless they've got cash to burn.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidhammy wrote: |
I don't think it is such a bad idea, if things like charging to try boots on kept local shops competitive or even just alive then i wouldn't have a problem paying £20/£30 to try loads of boots on and subsequently didn't buy anything, if they are providing a decent service then fair enough.
I think that maybe we are not the best people to ask, it's the people who think price is king (those who have no interest in skiing outside their week/s in france etc) you would need to convince to make it a goer. |
Me too, I'd happily pay a boot fitter £20-£30 just to look at my feet, measure them up, and then tell me what boots are going to fit me out of the box with very little work. Then I can go away at my leisure and shop on the internet, wait for end of season sales, do what I like to get the closest fit. If I get it, and I am happy with it, the fitter just made £20-£30. If they need a bit of work to get them just right, I'd inevitably go back to that fitter to get them sorted and pay them for that. If I buy the boots they suggest and they are duff, I'll go back and ask for my £20-£30 back, and send the boots back under Distance Selling Regs and start the process again.
I am someone for who has price pretty high on the list of priorities. Some people call it being tight  But when I can buy an identical product from two places and one is cheaper, it takes a lot for me to be convinced that the higher priced product is worth it. Usually that comes down to a very good returns policy (though not really a factor, it prevents me buying from other countries sometimes to save money) and someone providing really good, honest advice. That advice is usually worth about 5-10% of the purchase price. I am yet to be convinced by anyone to spend more than 10% over the odds to buy from them over a similar competitor for an identical product.
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| Quote: |
I'd be surprised nowadays if many people making a major purchase just walk into a shop and take the sales assistant's word for it without internet research etc unless they've got cash to burn.
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Or they can't tell the difference.
Ski boots are the best example. about 10% of the ski population will find off-the-shelf boot fit perfectly. The other 90% will benefit from some custom work. Of those, maybe 30% of them really NEED the custom work to ski properly AT ALL.
But those who could benefit from such work, I bet at least 50% of them never realize they could benefit from it! And even those who really NEED the custom work, many still don't realize it and won't ever get it done. They just put up with skiing poorly.
So the way I see it, the internet is actually helping educate peeps to the need of specialized services. I'd say true service oriented shops are also helped by the internet (as well as hurt by it). Only the kind of local shop who still provides no service should be really threatened by the internet in the long run.
[EDIT]
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| I am yet to be convinced by anyone to spend more than 10% over the odds to buy from them over a similar competitor for an identical product. |
I do for ski boots. I could have gotten the same boot online for 15-20% less. But I would have end up spending more than that for footbed (discounted when buying boots) and other customization. Or, I could have just do no customization and just ski poorly.
Same goes for bikes. If I buy a bike online, I would have to pay for putting on a longer/shorter stem, a different saddle, or a cassette with different range. All those put together would exceed the saving of purchasing online (after adding shipping). In the shop, they gladly offer "even exchange" of those items that are typically swapped out to fit each individual customer.
From that statement of yours, I'd put you in the category of "uneducated customers".
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FAQ
