Am I being recomended boots that are too stiff?

A snowHead

I'm getting my own boots for the first time this winter. Doing some preliminary "how much am I going to have to spend" type research in Snow and Rock after explaining how well I ski I was recommended the boots towards the mid to high end which all seemed to have a flex rating of 100 or so. They didn't recommend a specific boot as I didn't get my feet out!

I was wondering if this is correct and I really do need boots this stiff and any less would be no good or whether it was just the salesman being a good salesman and trying to upsell the range.

Supporting info: I'm a relatively fit male, I can ski most pistes in the resort in control of my speed with short or long turns but not that experienced. Last season I was just getting into skiing bumps etc.

A snowHead

Um, I don't know too much about boots but I guess I'm around your level and my boots are 100s, and I've never had any problems with them being too stiff. Used some less stiff rentals later and definitely wouldn't go back anyway.

Someone who knows a lot about boots should be along shortly though wink

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My advice: forget Slush and Rubble and get yourself down to Solutions for Feet at Bicester.

Flex ratings vary between manufacturers and are not standardised like DINs, if you are small and light but really work your boots (as in good ankle flexion and pressure control) you'll be fine with 100+, if you are small and light but don't work your boots you're gonna have problems at 100+. However if you're heavier, or heavy and don't do much flexing the boot at the moment you might be okay with 100 in as far as when you start flexing you might have enough weight to go with 100+, however if you already flex well and are heavy 100 may be far too low for you ... and so on and so on! What I'm saying is it's a black art and you need an expert (not the slightly trained kids they far too often employ at Slush and Rubble) to look at your potential range of movement, your feet and you'll need to give them an honest description of how you ski.

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I suppose I am relatively heavy at 90kgs and I do ski quite hard so it looks like it was good advice, may even need to go stiffer.

There is no chance I will be able to go to Bicester between now and January or anywhere south of Birmingham really as it would be a day trip with travelling and the fitting time. I also don't have the sort of budget where I can do as I'm supposed to do and put myself at the mercy of a bootfitter 100%. I know the pitfalls of Snow and Rock, hence why I wanted to go armed with some basic info so I can at least tell when I'm being fed sales patter. I also know lots of people who have bought very comfortable boots from S&R and since I have very average feet I'm not too worried about them or Ellis Brigham type shops.

Can anyone recommend a better option within an hour of Sheffield?

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Rivington alpine Flet©h,

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Don't be tempted to go too stiff it will inhibit your skiing if you can't get a bit of flex at the ankle. 100 sounds right but like has been said it all depends...

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It depends more on boot fit and how they flex on your feet then anything else. I started on 80's and within a few weeks was having nightmares as they didn't fit right and I couldn't get them to work with my ankles. Next pair was a properly fitted 130 rated boot that I could flex with no problem... go figure? Very Happy

Try Ellis Brigham at Tamworth Snowdome, unlike most of the high street branches of the big chains they do seem to know what they are talking about and will happily take the time to do the job properly. You may well get similar service from the shops at the other fridges as well.

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if the boot fits properly and you have some technique then you can flex something a lot stiffer than if it doesn't fit correctly, for 90kg skiing most runs i would say you want to be in at least 100flex, possibly not as much as 130 but it depends on the boot and how it fits you

if you are unable to put the time in before you go on holiday, where are you going, there may be a good boot fitter in THAT resort (there may not be, but it does depend a bit on where you are going)

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Flet©h, I cannot stress enough that in order to get a proper fit you need to go to an expert and S+R do not fit into that category. The reason why some people have very comfortable boots from them is because they fit them too big so they feel great in the shop and are comfortable to ski in as long as the owner doesn't mind a sloppy fit (and many don't know any better and/or blame all their skiing deficiencies on technique when part of it may be down to a sloppy boot fit). IMHO if there's one thing you need to spend your money on it's good boot fitting and frankly it won't cost a great deal more (if anything apart from fuel and time) to go to Bicester - if you go to S+R you are potentially buying ill fitting boots and poorly made footbeds that will only end up in the bin anyway. Getting boots fitted right takes a lot more than walking into a shop armed with some info off a forum and frankly taking some time to go to Bicester is worth it. As someone who regularly 'commutes' between Bristol and Aviemore it seems like a pretty short drive to me from anywhere in England anyway Razz

Anyway, if you choose to ignore my advice (and I reckon you will lol) there are other recommendations for boot fitting in the Boot Fitter Recommendation thread here, some may be closer to you than Bicester!

+1 for a dedicated bootfitter. My Shoddy and Ridiculous fitted boots which I always thought were okay, if a little bit hit and miss in terms of control were shell size 28 (or possible 28.5 I can't remember now), when fitted by someone in Bicester it terms out I should be in 26.5 shells. My comfort, control and skiing were transformed more by a couple of hours with someone who took the time to look at my feet, discuss my skiing and recommend then fit the boots that were right for me, than anything else.

Yes it's a couple of hours fitting time + travel time
Yes they did cost me a bit more than i was planning to pay
Yes they are a really good fit and have much better control and comfort. No more cramps, aches or rubbing. Plus having a boot that fits properely has definitely saved me from a couple of face to snow interfaces.

Obviously each circumstance is different (location/available funds/time) but it really is worth the effort to get this done properely either at a recommended fitter in the UK or in resort.

Up side of here if you have issues you can go back and talk them through after your first weeks skiing. Downside is if they cause problems while your out in resort you'll have to resort to phone advice (I know CEM has done this for previous customers).

Upside of in resort, any niggles can be sorted after each days skiing if required. Downside is once you get home you are going to struggle to resolve any issues with the shop.

Now S and R or Ellis B (add any other UK based ski gear shop), may have improved things in the boot fitting departments but from my limited experience of standing in the S and R shop at Hemel (edited for correctness) earlier this year I didn't see much evidence of the sort of knowledge and experience that a dedicated fitter would bring.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Lockwoods in Leamington aren't that much south of Birmingham, worth the trip.

A snowHead

ansta1, sounds about right and many people mistake loose fitting boots that are comfortable (as long as you don't crank the buckles up so that they actually hold your feet) for a decent fit. This is the sort of fit that you get at certain high street stores, in fact I'd say it's the general standard of fit at most but there are honourable exceptions, amongst them the EB in Aviemore and some of the EBs at the domes I believe but it's still hit and miss at many of the latter and depends on the right person being in the shop at the time you happen to be there. I am told, but only second hand, that EB put more time and money into training their boot fitters than any of their competitors so I guess the odds are higher with them that you'll get a half way decent fit, no guarantee though since it depends ultimately on the skills and experience of the individual. All the info I've heard about S+R suggests to me that their standard practice is to stick people in boots that are at least a size or more larger than they should be in, however sizing correctly necessitates skilled boot fitting (including the correct initial choice of boot for foot shape) or the boots may be painful so for most customers it's 'easier' for the shop to oversize the boot and gain comfort that way. Many customers will then go and ski with their foot banging about inside the boot and not realise that this shouldn't be happening and is in fact detrimental to their skiing and ability to progress.

I instruct on dry and on snow and I've seen a lot of people at what is generally called intermediate level whose basic issues could be helped considerably by properly fitting boots. Some are in hire boots but many are in their own boots and in the case of the latter a few questions usually ascertain that there are fundamental issues with boot fit but the boots are considered "comfortable". When I talk these people through what they should be looking for in a properly fitted boot (e.g. minimum heel lift, foot not moving from side to side in the boot etc.) they are invariably surprised which suggests to me that when they had the boots 'fitted' there was no or little discussion of these issues which I think is pretty poor practice but I fear is the general standard of 'fitting' in the UK. Personally I think if there was a bit more awareness amongst instructors of these issues too it might help a great many people to avoid expensive mistakes, mind you if poorly fitting 'comfortable' boots lead to people stuck on the intermediate plateau for ages I guess it might mean they return for more and more lessons Wink

BTW, it's EB at Tamworth, S+R have a shop at Hemel and a number of other slopes.

A snowHead

horizon, On the nose!

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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Thanks, I'll be in resort without a car though, so unless I can get to it on the resort bus then I need to buy in the UK.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

In my experience, surprisingly the group of people that seem to understand ski boots the least are instructors, a massive generalization and I don't mean everyone, but considering the job and the profile, it falls well short.

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Help!!

Am I being recomended boots that are too stiff?

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