 Poster: A snowHead
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bobmcstuff, i have had 2 pairs of these boots in the last 2years and they are by far the best boots i have ever had
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| figg4 wrote: |
| bobmcstuff, i have had 2 pairs of these boots in the last 2years and they are by far the best boots i have ever had |
Either you ski a phemonenal amount or something tells me that he boots can't be that durable 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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smithski, Thanks!
Edit: but doesn't that mainly say why it's a problem, rather than how to fix it?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 25-10-11 13:41; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, nearly everyday
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| JustJill wrote: |
smithski, Thanks!
Edit: but doesn't that mainly say why it's a problem, rather than how to fix it? |
pretty much. How to fix it? I guess go and see CEM!
dunno, was just posting the link which I believed pamw was referring to ...
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Firstly the OP sounds more and more like advertising for Surefoot and it is unfair to imply that all other suppliers are inferior. We can only speculate who the OP is referring to.
Secondly, I think that when people are talking about 'Performance fit' (for lack of a better word) they are talking about how snug the boots fit you feet (and not how expensive the boots are). Of course you can buy 'high performance' boots which do not have a 'performance fit' for your feet (or actually fit your feet at all).
Personally I was on the back of a bad purchase experience from S+R in Bristol (in April 2009) and discovery that the comfort 'guarantee' was a bit of a joke. So I was pleased to go to an independent retailer(CEM) to get a good fit for my feet and 2 years down the line I am very happy. (Boots purchased from CEM were Salomon Impact 10).
I have nothing against Surefoot - apparently my girlfriend used them for an boot adjustment in Utah last season and she was very happy with the outcome and convenience of having a specialist on the mountain.
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Chasseur, 4 hours, 1 evening, a few beers and a bit of a laugh, talked alot about skiing, various routes in Chamonix, skis, bindings and the sport in general, basically the same as any evening in Chamonix in any bar, or restaurant, only a féck of a lot better. 
And that 4 hours was a long sitting, difficult feet, very very sensitive, Heineken was the only Solution 4 these Feet (sic)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If I had just one week to ski in the season, there's no way I'd want to spend ANY of it getting boots tweaked.
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JustJill, flowa got her boots from CEM and had a totally different experience to spud9 and myself.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My last post on this thread, my wife pro instructor (does it for a living), v/wide feet, ballet dancer calves, could not find anything really to fit after Dachsteins disappeared. Bought Strolz in Austria all fitting 5pm, boot made up from various size shafts and bases Monday and foot outlines measured, Tuesday sown leather inner was fitted and re-sown, put on last, Wednesday inner foamed and footbed added, Thursday boot skied and footbed adjusted slightly. Friday several years ago to date always performs no pains ever; if you have feet beyond the racks there is a brand, total cost around e.600.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wow, some thread this is turning out to be!
Firstly, I will NOT reveal the boot fitters name because...well, becauase I don't want to and also because he does have more satisfied clients than unsatisfied clients and i'm not into destroying someone's livelihood. The point of my original post was that, as a professional, when you get it wrong (and I accept that this can happen) then the least you can do is to acknowledge that you got it wrong and to rectify the situation without antagonising or making the customer feel at fault after they have spent a small fortune for the service.
To answer some of your questions:
1) I was recommended a pair of Salomon Impact 10's in size 27.0 - 27.5 which as it turned out has a fairly low instep height (the shell that is) of which i didn't know at the time but then again why would I - I was the layman customer looking for guidance.
2) I now have a pair of Nordica Cruise in size 28.0 - 28.5 that have a much higher in-step height (the shell) to suit my high in-step and therefore now experience zero pressure cramping - result!
3) Finally, as the customer, how the bloody hell am I suppose to know, if i'm not expressly informed by the boot fitter, that I need to spend x number of days at the snow dome and that there will be discomfort and cramping for a while while the liners compact etc etc. IS THAT NOT WHY WE GO TO PROFESSIONALS TO ADVISE US....?????????
I certainly didn't ask for a performance boot nor did I know what a performance boot was until this thread. I am a 1 week, maybe 2 week, a year skier and would rate my skiing as being competent on all groomed runs and I can hold my own on intermediate level bumps and powder. I am not be the most stylish skier but then again I never portrayed my abilities as such. In hindsight, I can now see the imprtance of asking this line of questions but personally i was not asked this. I can only assume, again with hindsight, that the boot fitter assumed that I wanted a performance boot. Had I known more about the ski boot fitting process and the difference between a performance boot and a recreational boot i would have explored this more but, again, ISN'T THAT WHY WE GO TO PROFESSIONALS...???
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Apologies...I was, in fact, told that the liners would compact or shrink, whichever is correct, over time but what i wasn't informed or advised about was all of this:
| roga wrote: |
Hornster, in your opinion he/she got it wrong perhaps but I've read nothing that proves to me he/she did!
Some questions:
Did you go away and ski in the boots for at least 2 separate sessions at a dome (or dry slope)? (I'd advise more than that and if that can't be done wearing the boots round the house, walking around, for a decently long period of time.)
Did you go back with any issues after this and get them dealt with?
Did you accept even then that the first 2-4 days of holiday skiing might be painful whilst the boots settled down?
Did you take the boots to the other bootfitters only after you'd exhausted all the above avenues?
Did you and do you remain sceptical when they told you you had the wrong shaped boots (boot fitters love to try to prove other fitters wrong, it's in their DNA!)?
How many can you answer yes to? |
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, you're not the only saying that but surely that's an argument (if buying boots in the UK) to get out to a dome or dry slope ASAP and as soon as possible and break them in by skiing as much as possible before the trip? Point is some people find their boots are comfortable first time others don't so why risk it by waiting until they are away? It's also a good idea anyway IMHO to get the ski legs going before a trip (especially if it's a one a year thing) with a bit of practice, which is another way to avoid wasting valuable time on holiday but I guess that's a whole other topic!
Elston, interesting you mention that particular retail outlet - I've seen a few casualties from there and was one myself once many years ago before I knew any better!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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End of thread, you weren't happy, now you are, brilliant! I have to go back to work now, need to get the store ready, some bloke is bringing over his wife, son and daughter all to buy 2 pairs of boots each, cos SUREFOOT somewhere near here screwed them all up, yes 8 pairs ruined in total. Fingers crossed, have to add, one of a bootfitter's easiest jobs is to put right another's work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, as I said...even professionals get it wrong sometimes but it is the customer experience that should always be of paramount importance - that is my ONLY point of starting this thread!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hornster, out of interest, what size shoe do you normally take?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dr John, UK size 10, but I do have feet that are slightly on the wider side and particularly high in-step.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hornster wrote: |
| I was recommended a pair of Salomon Impact 10's in size 27.0 - 27.5 which as it turned out has a fairly low instep height |
| Hornster wrote: |
| Dr John, UK size 10, but I do have feet that are slightly on the wider side and particularly high in-step. |
I'm no expert in boot fitting, but I do have size 10 feet and have Impact 10's - 27.0-27.5 does seem on the small side 
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Hornster, In your original thread referenced above it looked very much that you'd decided Impact 10s might be your thing and were casting around for opinions on them. No mention of professional advice was made. Now it might be that you subsequently went to a bootfitter and by co-incidence he recommended Impact 10s for you but the trail makes it very difficult for us to know the full picture. Do we take it you were only asking for opinions on the Impacts after a bootfitter had fitted you or at least recommended them?
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fatbob, spot on. I mentioned the impact 10's to the boot fitter and as it turned out, after measuring my foot, that is what he recommended.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To answer some of your questions:
1) I was recommended a pair of Salomon Impact 10's in size 27.0 - 27.5 which as it turned out has a fairly low instep height (the shell that is) of which i didn't know at the time but then again why would I - I was the layman customer looking for guidance.
Out of interest, by who? sorry already dealt with.
| Hornster wrote: |
After 4yrs of abuse my current boots (Salomon X-wave 8's) are about to get buried in ski boot heaven 
I have been eyeing out the Salomon Impact 10's as, potentially, my next pait of boots. I'm just over 6ft, weigh 14st9 and ski on Scott Crusades (awesome ski!!) and would class myself as a 60:40 skier with 60 being off-piste.
There were times when I thought that my x-wave 8's weren't stiff enough which is why I have been considering the slightly stiffer Impact 10's. I also had the problem of slight heel lift in my 8's but i'm sure that that can be resolved by visiting a good custom boot fitter.
Anyone got any reviews or comments about these boots? |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Nowhere near te same shape as the X Wave. |
| Hornster wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER, you say that there is something not quite right with the 10's but you not sure what. Could you at least try and explain as you seem to be a font of knowledge when it comes to ski boots anf fitting etc? I'm sure, like myself, others will benefit from your experience. |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Not really any particular model, all the impact range and certainly the CS versions too. Flattery will get you no where. The make sweet race boots and snowboard boots though.  |
| CEM wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, IMO and only that, the two minor issues i see with the impact are volume over the forefoot (too much for some feet which fit the rest of the boot well) and forward lean which is a little steeper than i would like compared to the ramp angle
neither thing makes this a bad boot in any way, these are just things that could possibly make it better for more feet |
| Irrev wrote: |
| Used Salomon for years, latterly X-Wave then Impact 10 - liner went on first pair of Impacts at bend on tongue on inside, second pair (CS) had problems with forefoot fit, despite several refits. Switched to Nordica Speedmachine 110 which are fine, just as boots should be ... |
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lightningdan, and your point been?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller,
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Calf has to massively contract because of the weight
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You don't put your weight on it!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hornster wrote: |
| Wow, some thread this is turning out to be! |
LOL, that was on the cards from the start!
| Quote: |
| Firstly, I will NOT reveal the boot fitters name because...well, becauase I don't want to and also because he does have more satisfied clients than unsatisfied clients and i'm not into destroying someone's livelihood. The point of my original post was that, as a professional, when you get it wrong (and I accept that this can happen) then the least you can do is to acknowledge that you got it wrong and to rectify the situation without antagonising or making the customer feel at fault after they have spent a small fortune for the service. |
As explained above I (and others) think this thread is potentially creating damage anyway, not least by the fact you haven't said which boot fitter you are 'accusing'. IMHO by refusing to name said fitter you are denying them a public right to reply which I feel is unfair - if you really didn't want anyone to be in the spotlight you should have perhaps taken the issue up with them by e-mail and/or PM.
Anyway:
| Quote: |
To answer some of your questions:
1) I was recommended a pair of Salomon Impact 10's in size 27.0 - 27.5 which as it turned out has a fairly low instep height (the shell that is) of which i didn't know at the time but then again why would I - I was the layman customer looking for guidance. |
Perhaps this is what lightningdan point above is about, in that thread you started you do appear to have made your mind up already about the boots you wanted, namely Salomon Impact 10, am I mistaken?
If, as that thread perhaps suggests, you went to a bootfitter with mind already made up there's not a lot they can do barring refusing to sell you said boots, perhaps they should have done that? I can also see some comments on there from 2 well known bootfitters on Snowheads who quite clearly seem to think the fit on the Impact 10s is different to the boots you were replacing - if I read that thread and took note of those comments your issues with the Impacts wouldn't have come as a great surprise to me.
| Quote: |
| 2) I now have a pair of Nordica Cruise in size 28.0 - 28.5 that have a much higher in-step height (the shell) to suit my high in-step and therefore now experience zero pressure cramping - result! |
Interestingly there's also a post on that same thread from someone who also couldn't get on with the Impacts (after using the same boots you were replacing) and ended up with Nordicas too - again that reads almost prophetically so I'm puzzled that you were surprised by the problems you had!
| Quote: |
| 3) Finally, as the customer, how the bloody hell am I suppose to know, if i'm not expressly informed by the boot fitter, that I need to spend x number of days at the snow dome and that there will be discomfort and cramping for a while while the liners compact etc etc. IS THAT NOT WHY WE GO TO PROFESSIONALS TO ADVISE US....????????? |
I can't honestly comment on what conversations went on between you and the 'mysterious' fitter but yes I'd say it would be sensible to advise anyone to get out and ski before any trip and come back for extra tweaking if necessary - could it be the case that bit of advise was given but has been forgotten?
| Quote: |
| I certainly didn't ask for a performance boot nor did I know what a performance boot was until this thread. I am a . I am not be the most stylish skier but then again I never portrayed my abilities as such. In hindsight, I can now see the imprtance of asking this line of questions but personally i was not asked this. I can only assume, again with hindsight, that the boot fitter assumed that I wanted a performance boot. Had I known more about the ski boot fitting process and the difference between a performance boot and a recreational boot i would have explored this more but, again, ISN'T THAT WHY WE GO TO PROFESSIONALS...??? |
Yes it is but the professional is only as good as the information he/she is given by the customer, are you sure that's the impression you gave when discussing your level?
Lets put it this way, I'm still naive enough to presume that someone taking a lot about powder and off piste and being a "60:40 skier with 60 being off-piste" would not be the same as a 1/2 week a year skier who describes themselves as "competent on all groomed runs" and can hold their own on "intermediate level bumps and powder" - the two although perhaps to you saying the same thing might suggest something different to someone else.
At worse as I see it at the moment the fitter is guilty of presuming you were more than competent on groomers and were a bit of a powder and bumps hound and therefore you knew the score when it came to boot fitting for a more advanced fit.
I sincerely doubt there are many snowsports professionals who haven't on at least one occasion been guilty of taking people's descriptions of their own skiing at face value, the difference of course for instructors is you can pretty quickly work out the gap between description and reality once you see someone ski whereas for a boot fitter it's perhaps not apparent until/if said client starts complaining and to be frank, people being people, there are always going to be some who aren't happy - I'm told that's a rule of customer service (or I might just have made that up)
I can't really speak to the customer service issue though, a forum is frankly not somewhere where we can do a "he said this and I said this and wasn't he bang out of order" kinda analysis all we can do is accept that you feel miffed by what happened whoever was in the right. All I can say is I have always been more than happy with the customer service I have received from my bootfitter and I do not recognise what you describe as being the type of behaviour he would indulge in and I am sure there are many others here who would echo that!
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slight cross with above.
Hornster, You seemed set on these boots yourself. Two fitters offered an opinion that they were not quite right. You have not named the fitter who sold you these boots.
I feel for you in terms of the aggravation you have had, but you could have spent longer with the fitter who you bought them from, advised them that you would be posting here as you are an established member of snowheads, and maybe , just maybe they could have helped you. I would have been hacked off if I had spent £550 on boots that did not fit, and would have insisted the fitter take some responsibility for the problem.
Hornster
"So, what do we do? We go to a professional boot fitter all of whom have been recommended on this forum and, in fact, most of whom are regular posters on this forum. Unforunately, they are not all as good as one another from my personal experience and to make the whole experience even worse, some have zero customer service skills at all and instead resort to bullying tactics - no word of a lie! "
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You know it makes sense.
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man... this popcorn is good!
As a result of this thread, I no longer trust ANY boot fitter on Snowheads and will now need to go elsewhere to get my next pair of boots fitted
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| roga wrote: |
| Hornster wrote: |
| 2) I now have a pair of Nordica Cruise in size 28.0 - 28.5 that have a much higher in-step height (the shell) to suit my high in-step and therefore now experience zero pressure cramping - result! |
Interestingly there's also a post on that same thread from someone who also couldn't get on with the Impacts (after using the same boots you were replacing) and ended up with Nordicas too - again that reads almost prophetically so I'm puzzled that you were surprised by the problems you had! |
I have no dog in this fight but the Cruise looks to be Nordica's highest volume shell.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| shoogly wrote: |
As a result of this thread, I no longer trust ANY boot fitter on Snowheads and will now need to go elsewhere to get my next pair of boots fitted |
This is why the thread should be deleted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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roga, you have clearly always had good fortune from your bootfitter - lucky you!
As a professional, do you not think that he/she should listen to what a customer "thinks" is a boot for them and then to use their skill to make an informed assessment and judgment on the said boots and then comment on the suitability? I certainly didn't insist on the Impact 10's. Why would I? That is why I went to a professional.
All your blurb about the Nordica's from last years thread is totally coincidental as I wasn't even considering Nordica at the time. In fact, it wasn't until I went to Surefoot recently where they suggested them that i considered them.
The customer experience is ALL important for repeat business especially when they get it wrong. Getting it wrong is not the issue but it is the manner in which it was managed that is the issue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Hornster wrote: |
| All your blurb about the Nordica's from last years thread is totally coincidental as I wasn't even considering Nordica at the time. In fact, it wasn't until I went to Surefoot recently where they suggested them that i considered them. |
I don't think his point has anything to do with the fact that you ended up in Nordica boots. I think it has everything to do with the fact that two very well reputed boot fitters showed miss-givings about the Solomons after you had asked about them but you went ahead and bought them anyway.
Please just put us all out of our misery and tell us who the bloody boot fitter was!!!!!
Pretty please?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hornster wrote: |
| roga, you have clearly always had good fortune from your bootfitter - lucky you! |
No, prior to going to Colin I had some real car crash bootfittings, in fact at one stage it was so bad I stopped skiing for a number of years!
As a result I really do value good boot fitting but do have every sympathy with anyone who gets a bad deal ... honest!
| Quote: |
| As a professional, do you not think that he/she should listen to what a customer "thinks" is a boot for them and then to use their skill to make an informed assessment and judgment on the said boots and then comment on the suitability? I certainly didn't insist on the Impact 10's. Why would I? That is why I went to a professional. |
All I can say is my boot problems ended when I went to a fitter and relied on their advice totally as to what make of boot would suit my feet rather than my making any suggestion as to what I thought would be good. Unfortunately though because we only have one voice here from the two that were involved in your 'situation' it's difficult to judge fairly what actually happened although there's obviously been some level of misunderstanding and you've walked away dissatisfied for sure.
| Quote: |
| All your blurb about the Nordica's from last years thread is totally coincidental as I wasn't even considering Nordica at the time. In fact, it wasn't until I went to Surefoot recently where they suggested them that i considered them. |
It's not my blurb, it's from the thread you started, all I'm saying is that if I'd started it, read the comments and taken them on board I wouldn't be all that surprised to have some issues with the Impacts given someone with presumably similarly shaped feet to mine had issues and 2 well respected fitters on this forum had also commented about the differences in shape/volume between your old boots and these.
| Quote: |
| The customer experience is ALL important for repeat business especially when they get it wrong. Getting it wrong is not the issue but it is the manner in which it was managed that is the issue. |
Of course but you are bringing up a few more issues too, nobody is denying you feel you were badly served as a customer of the 'mystery' boot fitter and for my part I'm commenting on how well served I feel as a customer of my particular boot fitter. Whether we are talking about the same fitter or two completely different ones though only you know!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hornster wrote: |
| As a professional, do you not think that he/she should listen to what a customer "thinks" is a boot for them ... |
No, I don't. I think the best policy is to take your feet to a good boot fitter, answer their questions about your skiing experience honestly and openly, accept the boot solution they advise and be prepared for a few re-visits after you have skied in them for further tweaking. Going in with preconceived ideas about the specific model of boot you want to buy is a punter's mistake as bad as asking for "red ones, please".
I think you are being incredibly unfair to the boot fitters who regularly or occasionally post here. Put up or shut up.
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Come on admin, pull this bloody thread, for the reasons you've already given.
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rob@rar, You cant quote half a sentence and disagree once it means something completely different. He was saying he was happy for them to inform him he was wrong on the boots he thought might be right. I am sure many a customer will go in with an idea on what boot they might like, if it is not the right boot for them, then it is up for the professional to explain why and recommend something better suited.
It is a professional’s job to answer client’s questions and back it up with their professional knowledge.
I also disagree that you should accept the boot solution they advise straight away. It is important to gather as much infomation from as many professional as possible do some research and then make an informed decision based on the recommendations. I have had equipment problems before because i rushed a decison based on one persons advise to then be told completely different stuff later on and find that works better for me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jjc, I think going to a bootfitter with an open mind about what boot is right for you is of over-riding importance. That doesn't seem to have been the case with the OP.
By all means gather information from other boot fitting professionals (although I'm not sure how you should pay for in-depth advice if you're not going to be actually buying anything), but in reality how many recreational skiers are going to do that? It's different if you spend many weeks per year in ski boots and where you have much greater access to decent boot fitters than the average holiday skier. But for most people taking a lengthy drive to a bootfitter or giving up lots of time when you're on a ski holiday is already anathema, never mind seeking out two or more bootfitters to gather second opinions.
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| Pedantica wrote: |
| Come on admin, pull this bloody thread, for the reasons you've already given. |
What?!? We're only at Pandora Level 1.
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FAQ
, I think it is entirely reasonable to not have to expect spending two thirds of a holiday breaking in and constantly re-tweaking/adjusting/remoulding/whatever a new pair of boots (punter boots at that, or rather not race pro). I don't know about you, but I don't have the spare folding to make that 4-day pain-filled investment worthwhile.
Only 4 hours too 
) but I'm sitting here typing wearing a pair of very comfy DC trainers that are size 7 on the label (UK not US 7s), I do have small feet and more usually wear 6s, my running shoes are also 7s (Adidas) though but I tried on other makes (Nike IIRC) and they were too big for me at 7, they are comfortable, good for running and sports and were properly fitted with insoles and so I guess my shoe size is 6/7 depending on the make. Now here's the embarassing bit, my incredibly comfy Atomic Hawx boots with ZipFit liners that I use these days mostly for dry slope instructing fitted for me by Colin a few seasons ago now (and just about still holding together but really needing replacement soon) are ... yeek ... 23.5! 