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Surefoot is THE way forward...honestly!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Frosty the Snowman, people from the Indian Subcontinent also have the same issue apparently snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Hornster wrote:
As a professional, do you not think that he/she should listen to what a customer "thinks" is a boot for them ...
No, I don't. I think the best policy is to take your feet to a good boot fitter, answer their questions about your skiing experience honestly and openly, accept the boot solution they advise and be prepared for a few re-visits after you have skied in them for further tweaking. Going in with preconceived ideas about the specific model of boot you want to buy is a punter's mistake as bad as asking for "red ones, please".

I think you are being incredibly unfair to the boot fitters who regularly or occasionally post here. Put up or shut up.


Rob - do you honestly do that yourself when you make purchases of about £500 (in any field)? You do no research, blindly accept what the first "professional" tells you and then willingly pay up, accepting that his advice and service may not be fit for purpose and that you may need to go back to him several times until he does get it right - all at your own expense and none at his?

You sound like the perfect client. Please, please, please call me whenever you need some structural engineering advice wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
Anyone fancy a Bum?
no thanks, it would probably be too tight if you had assessed the job Shocked wink


That did make me laugh.....also a little nervous now....should I be bringing some gel packs along? Laughing
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Ray Zorro, Laughing Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Chasseur wrote:
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
Anyone fancy a Bum?
no thanks, it would probably be too tight if you had assessed the job Shocked wink


That did make me laugh.....also a little nervous now....should I be bringing some gel packs along? Laughing


As long as you have enough room to wriggle your toes, you shouldn't need any gel Smile
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
shoogly wrote:
Chasseur wrote:
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
Anyone fancy a Bum?
no thanks, it would probably be too tight if you had assessed the job Shocked wink


That did make me laugh.....also a little nervous now....should I be bringing some gel packs along? Laughing


As long as you have enough room to wriggle your toes, you shouldn't need any gel Smile


Well they might curl a bit...
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ray Zorro, I think in engineering there is often an acceptable answer or not - something fits/works or it doesn't allowing for a suitable range of expected operating conditions e.g. heat expansion. Fitting around the human body seems vastly more complex - there are huge variations between individuals as to sensitivity, preferences, personal definition of "too tight", pain threshold, attitude to comfort v performance trade offs, time commitment. thus I think bootfitting is a tremendously difficult job and I suspect a bootfitter that has 100% satisfied customers all the time is probably a liar. Not least because individuals might not shout up about something at the time but it would have been vital information to the bootfitter.

I've found to my personal cost that something which initially wore in well after a few days skiing and was great for the first 30 days became a nightmare because I didn't pick up on little niggles soon enough. In no way the bootfitter's fault. And I've experienced service (not in the UK) where it seemed the bootfitter was going with his own project of what to do rather than listening to my key concerns/needs, fortunately rectified by a sensible discussion with and rework by the boss. No hard feelings, maybe I caught the individual concerned on a bad day.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fatbob, yes, big issue is that customer is relaxed in the shop but tense on the mountain - foot crunches up, boot fits differently, pain ensues. Boot/bootfitter gets the blame.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Does your boot fitter stock the brand for your feet in the width etc etc ?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'm not sure I agree with the calls to censor / delete this thread, especially coming from posters that have taken part in the discussion and then call for it to to deleted. It's okay for for the self elected elite to read and respond and then decide to remove the thread Puzzled This is an open forum. I can see the argument that the OP could tarnish the rep of several boot fitters but having read most the thread there seems a great deal of support for the snowhead boot fitters. These boot fitters no doubt generate business from their involvement on snowheads, good luck to 'em, but once in a while a dis-satisfied client is going to make some negative comments, that's a risk of an open media like this. If it could be proved the whole episode is a marketing stunt then yes maybe delete it, but actually if it is I'd say it's not worked very well.

This thread now contains many experiences and ideas on how a client should approach the process of going to a pro boot fitter, so is a useful resource.

Maybe if the forum provided a rating / voting feature then the OP in this case would have probably got voted down, thinking along lines of say stackoverflow (for the geeks out there), which is a more open way to self censor. Then at least any non-regular snowhead readers would instantly see the community wasn't agreeing with the OPs point of view.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
waynos, honestly, I didn't really mean to ask for its deletion. As I said, a touch of over-exuberance! Sorry. Embarassed
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Bode Swiller wrote:
.....and in life people get the boots they deserve.
Very Happy Very Happy

I don't want this thread deleted. I have no interest in whether Hornster has a valid point or whether bootfitters/a particular bootfitter are/is being maligned. I want to be entertained. I want personal insults, hissy fits and threats of violence. Isn't that, at the end of the day, what Snowheads is all about?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Having stayed out of the battle other than one post until now, I am coming on here to defend myself for something which at this time I am unsure that I am even involved in, but by being a boot fitter who is in the uk and posts on snowheads I am automatically guilty by association.

I have no idea if the OP is /was a client of ours, he hasn't had the good grace to tell me in public or by PM, however I do know that I cannot remember any such case where I "exploded" at a client. It is very simple as many people have pointed out for a shop to tell the client "what they want to hear" especially if they are in a bit of pain on a ski holiday, what I fail to understand is why anyone would buy their boots at the start of the season and then put them in the cupboard until they go on holiday, yet this happens frequently. We recommend that ALL our clients ski at an indoor slope or even a dry slope to get a feel for the boot, I fully accept that this will not break the boot in for them as wou7ld happen skiing on a mountain, but it will certainly show up any problems which may occur.

On to what might cause this pain, if I was the fitter and I knew who the client was then I could check the fitting card and give all the details on here, however it appears that the OP does not what to admit to this therefore I cannot check our records to see if we were right, wrong or even the fitters in question. This is one of the main reasons that we keep detailed records of each boot sold, what was done to it, and any recommendations of stretching plans given to the client. One thing no boot fitter can be responsible for is the fitness or flexibility of the clients, even if we warn them that they may have problems due to foot type many choose to ignore that advice.

My best guess of what is happening (and I must stress this is a guess) is that there is a lack of ankle joint range of motion, this is compounded by a ski with a binding with a little steeper delta than optimal for the individual, this pitches the client up onto the ball of the foot as the heel tries to force itself out of the boot when the limit of the ankle joint range of motion is reached and consequently the instep hits the top of the boot, foot goes numb/hurts like hell etc etc etc.

The solutions is many fold, firstly the client may need to stretch the calf muscles, have a heel lift put into the boot(or a larger one if there has been one already there) stretch the instep of the boot up the way(easy to do with the correct tools) interestingly or not I have an x wave boot in the store for modifications right now, I measured the heel to instep distance using a extending dowel measure, the difference between the x wave and the impact(size for size, both were 26.5 shells clipped on the first buckle) the difference in that dimension was 3mm (hardly something which cannot be adjusted) after all we only have the OP’s statement that he has a very high instep , or was that the opinion of his new boot fitter???

The get a bigger boot solution will always give more space over the top of the foot, but how can that be measured against a boot of a different brand in a different size, it is easy to give out a big bucket fit to give instant comfort, but the next boot fitter who sees the boot if there is a problem will simply say the problem is caused by the fact that the boots are too big.

So all in all unless I know that I was the fitter, have the name and approximate date of purchase of the boot I am unable to comment as to if it was right, wrong or why the client felt he received such poor customer service, we have a very good customer service record and a very high success rate with the people we see for boot fitting, a lot of them are people who have had problems in previous boots or are thinking of giving up the sport all together if they cannot get boots to fit. Ultimately this entire thread is likely to affect our business be if positively or negatively, if the latter then the OP’s comment about not trashing anyone reputation is farcical, I hope he is satisfied with any damage he may have caused to my business and that of other boot fitters in the UK.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CEM, nicely put. But I think if anything at all in this thread has damaged your reputation, then it's the public mention of your failing to offer an otherwise docile customer a drink or a pie. Toofy Grin
Spud9, Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CEM, an outstanding answer.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My only argument is that the OP should be a little more specific and should not leave people to jump to their own conclusions about who he is referring too (whether this is unintentional is not clear).


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 26-10-11 13:40; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ray Zorro wrote:
Rob - do you honestly do that yourself when you make purchases of about £500 (in any field)? You do no research, blindly accept what the first "professional" tells you and then willingly pay up, accepting that his advice and service may not be fit for purpose and that you may need to go back to him several times until he does get it right - all at your own expense and none at his?
Given that I have essentially zero knowledge of the wide range of boots available, the biomechanics of how feet work, the possibilities of adjusting boots for problem feet and a host of other issues I am left with the following options: do "research" (which involves reading marketing material provided by manufacturers and retailers, or scouring the internet for comments from people who I have no idea about) or getting sufficient recommendations from people I personally know about a professional boot fitter (please note the lack of quotation marks) and trusting that the years of experience they have and personal integrity is sufficient to end up with a suitable pair of boots. In my experience the so-called research is pointless, and finding a good professional has led to successful outcomes. Obviously your mileage may vary.

I have problem feet so I've found that boot fitting is a process not a single event. Other people might have a different experience and I envy them, but for the balance of comfort and performance that I need a certain level of adjustment is needed and that is best done after spending some time skiing in the boots. I guess it might be possible to ensure that they are comfortable at first fitting, but that might be at the risk of compromising the performance. So for me it's not an option. Again, YMMV. Just for the record with all the boot fitters I've ever used the subsequent tweaks to the boot have all been done free of charge. The only expense is my travel, and I'm happy to pay that.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 26-10-11 13:43; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pedantica, There is only diet coke in his fridge, yuch.

But he did point me at the garlic, spinach panini from next door which is pretty good.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
tiffin, so what's all this talk about beer and pies, then? There have been numerous mentions thereof. Confused
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pedantica, he defo does beer. The pies might be an after work thing.
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CEM, Well one positive outcome for me (and hopefully for you) from this thread is that it has given me the kick up the backside I needed to stop mumbling on about, 'maybe needing different boots now that my skiing/awareness of I'm doing has changed', and actually ring up and make an appointment with you! snowHead
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Am I the only one to find it ironic that this page has a heading which says:
Quote:

Equipment Reviews/Questions:supported by UK ski shop and boot fitters, Edge & Wax


Twisted Evil
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

however I do know that I cannot remember any such case where I "exploded" at a client.


I regularly and have many times is the distant passed pi$$ed CEM right off, my fist day working with him in fact circa' 1997, despite my best efforts and endless frustration he doesn't explode, the thought of which has just sent me spewing. Charlie has the thickest skin of any reptile bootflicker, I can never see him going tits, at least until the client has left, then he'd probably guzzle 2L Diet Coke and inhale 14 pork pies and honestly suggest that he'd had some part to play in the proceedings.

I on the other hand enjoy my trice yearly ejecting of tw@tty clients.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
I on the other hand enjoy my trice yearly ejecting of tw@tty clients.


Ahhhhh... so it WAS YOU!!!!!!

Laughing Laughing Laughing

If i'm ever in Cham, I'm coming to get boots fitted by you Very Happy
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
I on the other hand enjoy my trice yearly ejecting of tw@tty clients.

In my mind's eye I can just see that. Frogmarched out the door, across the lane and to the bank of the river. A short, sharp jab between the shoulder blades and off they float down the river.

Let's face it, even if you've never actually done it the no one could blame a boot fitter for wanting to do it mentally...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FlyingStantoni, I have frog marched at least 5 people off the premises before now, one girl turned around and threw her Tele boots back at me through the shop window. Bint!

I was always in the right, BTW. Little Angel
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
"Rob - do you honestly do that yourself when you make purchases of about £500 (in any field)? You do no research, blindly accept what the first "professional" tells you and then willingly pay up, accepting that his advice and service may not be fit for purpose and that you may need to go back to him several times until he does get it right - all at your own expense and none at his?"

That is exactly why I walked into SOLE at the beginning of last season and said, "do with me what thou wilt, but be gentle"

SZK has a good idea of how and what I ski and simply prescribed the boot that would fit with least work.

Which is why, 550 eur lighter, I have white (!) boots. Oh well, they work like a dream.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:

SZK has a good idea of how and what I ski and simply prescribed the boot that would fit with least work.

Which is why, 550 eur lighter, I have white (!) boots. Oh well, they work like a dream.


Perfect for long boozy lunches on the terrace while telling tall stories of epic bump exploits of youth;-)



(Sorry slow pitch!)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CEM, As soon as funds permit, hopefully this season, I'll come to see you to buy replacements my 30 week old boots. It's this thread that has lead me to the conclusion that you must be very good. Very loyal bunch posting here I think. Smile
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

then he'd probably guzzle 2L Diet Coke and inhale 14 pork pies

I'd be none too surprised if he exploded after that.


http://youtube.com/v/rXH_12QWWg8
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
fatbob,

Precisely. Or better, telling tall tales over a long boozy lunch of long boozy lunches in my youth.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
under a new name, Long boozy fitting sessions discussing long boozy powder days of days gone by.
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