 Poster: A snowHead
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Another quick plug for a good cause! I'm arranging a training fortnight free of charge for two budding young ski champions next Feb and we're looking for help and advice in bringing more sponsors on board, including an airline (going to either Geneva, Grenoble or Chambéry) and an insurance company. Does anyone have any useful contacts?
Hardly a major project at this stage, with just a couple of sponsorees involved this coming season, but the plan is to build up these sponsored training camps in years to come to something far more significant.
Might this be a project with which snowHeads itself would like to be directly associated? It's the kind of venture for which it is relatively easy to get press coverage, all grist to the mill as far as the promotion stakes are concerned.
More information here. All ideas for promotion, obtaining sponsors, gratefully received.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd be happy to make a donation to help buy flights if commercial sponsorship from an airline isn't possible. Perhaps a "snowHeads Fund" might help support a couple of aspiring racers as well as contribute to the profile of our Forum? I guess it wouldn't be too expensive if a small number of us chipped in to pay for flights?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG, good luck with your project, which is obviously a magnanimous investment of your time and resources.
As for your italicised paragraph, personally I don't think snowHeads should take an 'editorial position' on anything. Because this is an entirely open discussion forum, effectively (and refreshingly) free of editorial direction, I don't think it would be wise. snowHeads could, of course, take an editorial or lobbying position on any of a number of issues but that would mean the site's owner speaking for the snowHeads community as one. Would that be appropriate?
As the baron of a new ski website you are, of course, now in an influential position to do your own thing and thump the tub!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Seems like a good cause to me, go for it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't know David Goldsmith, , afraid I don't see that it would be particularly controversial for a British-based snowsports forum to offer moral support to aspiring young British snow athletes. In doing so it would be associated with a good cause while adding to the snowHeads profile in the winter sports world.
Natives, the Ski Club, IYS, etc etc, they all do it one way or another. Seems like a win-win situation to me.
Editorial independence and objectivity placed in jeopardy? We're talking about support for a couple of youngsters to get some training in the sport they love, it's hardly a case of asking forum members to donate to Greenpeace, express their support for its policies, or similar!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ... personally I don't think snowHeads should take an 'editorial position' on anything. |
Maybe my brain is still asleep, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'editorial position' - could you explain a little bit more?
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rob@rar.org.uk, ditto!
I thought we were just giving money?
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rob, OK maybe my brain wasn't functioning either, but PG's first sentence in italics seemed to be directed at this website supporting something collectively, for publicity purposes.
The phrase "promotion stakes" is also used, in the second sentence. Not entirely sure what that means.
snowHeads is growing very healthily, because it works (I think) to provide information, entertainment, contact - and a bit of banter - to people who love snow. The site is essentially growing organically, as it has done since Day One.
What we do as individuals is what matters, isn't it? If the sum total of those actions is to help a cause, great! But let's not become some sort of herd of organised do-gooders.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| herd of organised do-gooders |
I suppose you could describe Live8 along those lines.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| rob, OK maybe my brain wasn't functioning either, but PG's first sentence in italics seemed to be directed at this website supporting something collectively, for publicity purposes. |
OK, still not sure I understand your point, but I see no problem with snowHeads providing a way for like-minded people to come together and do something collectively (and if there is an associated benefit for the Forum, so much the better).
I suppose we could change my original suggestion of "snowHeads Fund" to something like "A Fund derived from certain, but not all, members of the snowHeads Forum". It would acheive the same thing (supporting a couple of aspiring racers) and as a fringe benefit might keep the pedants happy, although the downside is that it might make us snowHeads look a bit stupid.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Undoubtedly, Live 8 is the brainchild of a charismatic and influential man, but it ain't a web-based discussion forum. I just don't think this freewheeling site should be steered into much that it isn't already. It can be a catalyst for all sorts of satellite stuff - some charitable, some commercial, and some as yet undefined - but I wouldn't have thought it should be 'luggage tagged' with anything external.
I personally don't give a t0ss where snowHeads lies in the 'promotion stakes', 'press coverage' etc. That said, if we continue as a vibrant and vital source of good stuff then there's every chance that Pullitzer-prize-winning ski hacks will discover us soon and blast our goodness all over the pages of some rag. We seem to be more useful than most other ski media.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PG wrote: |
| Quote: |
| herd of organised do-gooders |
I suppose you could describe Live8 along those lines. |
Yes indeed, but I hope that your efforts with the youngsters are more effective at producing good racers than Live8 will be at relieving poverty in Africa.
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David Goldsmith, I agree with you. I'm very happy for good causes to be brought to our attention, but I don't think snowHeads is about taking collective positions on things.
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I personally don't give a t0ss where snowHeads lies in the 'promotion stakes', 'press coverage' etc. |
apparently one hour is a long time on the internet then
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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laundryman, quite agree. Good job snowHeads isn't being asked to take a collective position on anything.
David Goldsmith,
You mean, a bit like all the commercial interests quite understandably plugged on the snowHeads front page so that U can attempt to finance the whole project?
richmond, that's the plan. We're motivated, we know what it takes to get there, and you're right - we're not buying them shiny new skis to play with and eventually stick in a cupboard to go rusty. We're teaching them skills they will never forget.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| It can be a catalyst for all sorts of satellite stuff - some charitable, some commercial, and some as yet undefined......... |
So that will include a bit of fundraising.
Good, all agreed then.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Personally I am struggling to get my head round the concept that this is a “good” cause and the find any comparisons with live 8 to be extremely offensive.
To question whether it is a better use of money to give it to some kids so that they can go faster down a mountain or to give it to pay for a child to receive medical treatment in the third world which otherwise their family could not afford to me is a no-brainer.
For snowHeads to become collectively involved is a decision for U, otherwise it has to be on an individual basis. If PG wants to take individual donations and say that they come from snowHeads, well that is his decision.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| Personally I am struggling to get my head round the concept that this is a “good” cause and the find any comparisons with live 8 to be extremely offensive. |
I might have read it wrong, but I thought the Live8 comment was very much tongue-in-cheek.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ray Zorro, just so long as you don't cheer when a Brit climbs onto a podium at a major championship in any sport!  The only reason any of them make it to the top in the majority of less commercial sports is through the help and support of those giving freely of their time, money and skills. Most people believe that the collective health of our children is important, and those who reach the pinnacle of achievement in their respective activity set the example that others are eager to follow.
You - and no one else - raised the question of comparative value of good causes. It is offensive to me to suggest that I have done any such thing.
You are quite right to say that it is ultimately for U to decide how he wishes to promote this forum.
I'm sorry that such niggling has detracted from the original message here. That people willing to make an effort on behalf of those who are less able to afford to take part in their chosen sport have asked for moral support and advice - not necessarily money - from a friendly forum of snowsports lovers.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 6-07-05 10:42; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| For snowHeads to become collectively involved is a decision for U, otherwise it has to be on an individual basis. If PG wants to take individual donations and say that they come from snowHeads, well that is his decision. |
There's a third choice as well of course, if U wants to promote SnowHeads in this way it's independent of a collective decision or individual donations.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Going back to PG's original post - I agree with Ray Zorro that the only person who can answer, and should be asked, the question as to whether snowHeads should be involved is U Brain. He is the only 'owner' of snowHeads and its up to him as to which direction we take - its then up to us as to whether we wish to join in this direction or not.
I am getting a bit annoyed/concerned that there appears to be a lot of niggling going on over several threads by some people towards PG/Ise's new website/forum. I don't know whether the intention is to make us see this website as some sort of a threat but I think it has the opposite effect of making snowHeads seem insular and unable to take any competition. We should surely embrace different websites out there as encouraging snowsports not drive people towards them cos they get fed up with the atmosphere here. Just my thoughts. Of course, I don't know the background behind it all and there's probably lots going on/gone on that I'm unaware of.
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PG,
I'm with you on this,
Have sent an e-mail to Flybe press office pointing them toward your web-site.
Hope this produces something.
Don't ask, don't get.
Hope this doesn't compromise our integrity..............
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| Quote: |
rob@rar.org.uk,
I might have read it wrong, but I thought the Live8 comment was very much tongue-in-cheek.
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On reflection, you're probably right on that one. I guess I may have over-reacted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| To question whether it is a better use of money to give it to some kids so that they can go faster down a mountain or to give it to pay for a child to receive medical treatment in the third world which otherwise their family could not afford to me is a no-brainer. |
It seems that simple, doesn't it, but clearly it isn't, as we all spend vast amounts of money on things we don't need, like ski hols, new cars, ten pairs of shoes, two pairs of sunglasses, iPods, ... , while being very well aware that the money could be used to save/improve the lives of all sorts of people around the world. In real life, addressing third world poverty and other no brainer good causes seems well down the list of priorities for the vast majority of people, Live8 notwithstanding (or perhaps preceisely because of things like Live8).
BTW, tongue in cheek or not, the description of the Live8 set up as a 'herd of organised do-gooders' seems accurate and pretty inoffensive (if the worst they're ever called is a herd, they're doing well), whatever one thinks of Live8.
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| richmond wrote: |
| we all spend vast amounts of money on things we don't need, like ski hols, new cars, ten pairs of shoes, two pairs of sunglasses, iPods, ... , while being very well aware that the money could be used to save/improve the lives of all sorts of people around the world. |
Money spent on goods and services is being used to improve the lives of all sorts of people around the world.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PG, Do you have a Paypal a/c that could be linked from one of your web pages? If U or the folk that are in control of this forum don't wish to be involved, then individual snowheads could donate personally.Cathy Coins, Your 2nd para hits the nail on the head for me
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Cathy Coins and snowbunny, I'll answer your criticism in a way which I hope is constructive. This forum is a success. In fact, in less than 18 months it has proven to be one of the most successful English-language snow forums in the world.
snowHeads is successful because it's run by a modest guy who keeps a low profile and lets people chat without an overbearing attitude to moderation or 'attitude' itself. I've not detected any sinister motives or commercial exploitation here, but (conversely) an eagerness for this site to convey truth, friendliness and a spirit of helpfulness. With a load of fun on the way.
We're reading a thread called 'A Good Cause', which is absolutely fine. And it's about the author's Good Cause, which is also fine. And the author includes a direct invitation to admin/U brain to be associated with this Good Cause. That's where it goes just a tiny little step into 'accountability' to my mind. I don't think that admin has to answer the question, and in his shoes I probably wouldn't.
Everyone supports good causes in their own way. It's essentially a private thing. It's inappropriate, to my mind, for snowHeads - a free-speech community of independent people - to be collectively organised to support things. As I said above, any amount of peripheral activity can take place but that's quite separate from the administration and proprietorial function of the site. If independent people want to talk about Good Causes - especially other people's Good Causes - great!
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| And the author includes a direct invitation to admin/U brain to be associated with this Good Cause. |
I read it as an invitation to me as A snowhead (along with everybody else here) and not as an invitation just to admin as THE snowHead. I see admin as first among equals, but maybe I'm wrong in this.
| Quote: |
| Everyone supports good causes in their own way. It's essentially a private thing. It's inappropriate, to my mind, for snowHeads - a free-speech community of independent people - to be collectively organised to support things. As I said above, any amount of peripheral activity can take place but that's quite separate from the administration and proprietorial function of the site. If independent people want to talk about Good Causes - especially other people's Good Causes - great! |
What does this remind me of? ... Ah yes, I remember: Thatcher saying there is no such thing of society. No idea why that popped into my head, but it just did.
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar.org.uk, that's a petty snipe, IMO. There's obviously room for all sorts of voluntary organisations to pursue good causes; all DG is saying is that snowHeads exists for another purpose and that there is no reason to change its character. I agree with him.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| laundryman wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk, that's a petty snipe, IMO. |
My apologies. I'll go and give my subconscious a good beating!
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar.org.uk, I read PG's italicised paragraph to be aimed at snowHeads the organisation - to me that is U Brain. And everyone knows he is much more equal than us 
David Goldsmith, your comments don't answer my criticism of the sniping that's going on at PG/Ise's website. That was the only criticsm I had.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| laundryman wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| we all spend vast amounts of money on things we don't need, like ski hols, new cars, ten pairs of shoes, two pairs of sunglasses, iPods, ... , while being very well aware that the money could be used to save/improve the lives of all sorts of people around the world. |
Money spent on goods and services is being used to improve the lives of all sorts of people around the world. |
True, but presumably this is not a satisfactory way to deal with issues such as third world poverty, child abuse in the UK and all the other manifestly worthy and seemingly intractable problems.
My point is that although we know that we can use our money to alleviate suffering directly, we prefer in general to spend it indulge our vanity and pleasure seeking. Unless you are suggesting that the best way to address problems is not to spend money directly on them, through governments or charities, but to spend money on ourselves and wait for the benfit to trickle down to Somalia or an abused child in UK, I think that my point is a fair one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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someones obviously reading this, posts are being removed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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richmond, I don't disagree. All I'm trying to say is that benefits flow from private spending, including the alleviation of third-world poverty. I'm not trying to say that charity doesn't have a role.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Slowplough wrote: |
PG,
I'm with you on this,
Have sent an e-mail to Flybe press office pointing them toward your web-site.
Hope this produces something.
Don't ask, don't get.
Hope this doesn't compromise our integrity.............. |
Thanks. Your integrity is beyond reproach of course 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| PG, Do you have a Paypal a/c that could be linked from one of your web pages? If U or the folk that are in control of this forum don't wish to be involved, then individual snowheads could donate personally |
Good idea, thanks. Have added a button... but.... PayPal only wants to talk to donors in French  . I'll sort it out tomorrow!
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I should have thought the question of whether admin would wish his site to officially contribute to or be associated with a "good cause" should occur via PM, rather than in the open forum. This is precisely because it is a personal decision as to whether he considers it a "good cause"/something worth supporting/beneficial to the forum and he is not accountable to us for his decision.
Where individuals want to put their money is up to them and I don't see anything wrong with a user using the site to draw their attention to something they may want to support, as long as the announcement does not also subserve any perceivable secondary benefit.
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Yes, we've already agreed that - it is admin's decision, and I'm pretty sure no one has suggested otherwise. However as numerous ideas of all kinds have been put forward throughout the forums over the last 17 months, it seems to be acceptable behaviour. As no one is asking admin to back The Order of the Solar Temple, just to consider the benefits of a UK snowsports forum being linked to a project aimed at helping a couple of talented snowracing kids to have better training facilities in the hope of realising their dreams one day, perhaps we can get back to the original request? I was simply seeking:
| Quote: |
| help and advice in bringing more sponsors on board, including an airline (going to either Geneva, Grenoble or Chambéry) and an insurance company. Does anyone have any useful contacts? |
Let's not make a Mont Blanc out of a Chiltern hill.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tell me more about the Order of the Solar Temple
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| ise wrote: |
| Tell me more about the Order of the Solar Temple |
Ain't that the mob from the Da Vinci code?
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FAQ
