Thinking of giving Austria a go

A snowHead

Hello all,

Need some advice on Austria.

Up until now I have been pretty much solely skiing in France and have done all the biggest ski areas. I still love France and have a plan for my week, but have been thinking maybe I should stretch my wings and look at Austria. Went to Kitzbuhel a couple of summers and loved it, so maybe its time.

However here is the issue. I've identified the Skiwelt as the place I'd like to go, plenty of options to travel around to different resorts and we would hope to have a car, so that would make life easy, but there are three issues:

Firstly, whenever we go to France we drive. Means you get 8 days on the slopes for only 7 nights accommodation in resort (usually drive down the day before and spend the night in Chambery). Is this feasible for Austria? What the best route and you need Winter tyres, so does buying those make this uneconomical vs flying?

Secondly, if we overcome the first issue, where is the best place to stay if you want to be in a really convenient place with good access to slopes? Soll looked like a good choice but reports often complain about big queues at the bottom and accommodation being some distance from lift. Is this an issue if you aren't going in half terms? We are planning last week of Jan or 2nd week of March (is the latter a good idea considering the lower level of these resorts?) Westendorf looks like a good option perhaps?

Finally, we are used to staying in catered chalets, far too lazy to cook each night and we like to get spoiled, but these don't seem to exist in Austria, so how does it work? Does staying in hotels and eating out every night not make it really expensive?

Sorry if I come across as a complete newbie, but when it comes to Austria I guess I am.

Thanks for your comments

K

A snowHead

kosciosco, you've set quite a bit of homework there.

Driving - I go Dover - Dunkirk on Norfolk Line or the tunnel. I generally head for Brussels Airport and grab Etap Hotel or similar in Diagem just off the motorway. Next morning, head down via one of two routes - either Aachen, Cologne, Frankfurt, Nurnburg, Munich, Austria or down the Karsruhe / Stuttgart side. Some go via Luxembourg (obviously Brussels not a sensible stop for that) and swear by it. It's about 100 miles longer to Soll than say Courchevel but no tolls in Belgium/Germany (or across northern France) and only a tiddly vignette in Austria. Basically, there's nowt in it really.

Winter tyres - please do a search. The answer is "yes" preferably but "no" not everyone bothers and they tend not to get into trouble. Chains a must either way.

Soll - I've never encountered big queues. Yes, village is a schlepp from the lifts but there are hotels and apartments up by the main gondola.

Austrian 3 and 4 star hotels with half board beat most chalets into a cocked hat - and you don't have to eat with people you can't stand and the chef is a proper chef using proper ingredients. You'll have to buy your drinks but hey ho.

If you are driving around you can stay almost anywhere. Personally I like Kitzbuhel for the town and atmosphere.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

kosciosco, I've driven to Austria a number of times. Generally I do Brussels, Karlsruhe, Munich - although I have done several variations on it. I've not stayed over, I favour cat napping in the car (which I can do when I'm on my own) at a convenient service station.

Winter tyres will add cost, but I bought a set for use in the UK last year, and they proved their worth. Provided you are not planning on changing your car in the next couple of years, then you will break even by running winter tyres for 5 months of the year and not wearing out your summer tyres as fast.

I tend to find that eating out costs as much as you want it to. €10-€12 usually gets me a pizza, or pasta, or burger meal in a cheap place. If you're after 5* cuisine then you will pay a lot more!

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kosciosco, We use the route down through France to Metz/Strasbourg, then Pforzheim, Stuttgart, Munich, Salzburg. We find the superb French autoroutes worth the tolls - don't like German autobahns as much, but, to be fair, we haven't tried the other options. We stay overnight in Marlenheim, a village near Strasbourg and can supply details of an excellent, cheap B&B on request. It's about 700 miles from Calais to Salzburg.
If you're not dead set on driving, one way of travelling cheaply and maximising skiing time is to get a cheap evening flight, on the day before your accommodation becomes available, with the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet to say Salzburg, and staying overnight in a B&B (they are not expensive). You can then get an early morning transfer to the resort and be on the slopes well before lunchtime.
You're unlikely to need catered accommodation in Austria, and, if you've been to Kitzbuehel, you'll perhaps understand why. The reason that there are far fewer UK operated chalets in Austria is simply that they don't really need them, as they arguably do in France and Switzerland (where in my experience there's hardly any point in venturing out of the chalet in the evening, and the ready-made social gathering of a chalet party comes into its own). I really only speak for my own village, when I say that there are a myriad of options for dining out, whether in good, reasonably-priced restaurants, pizzerias, or bars, and sampling these and discovering one's favourites is very much part of the enjoyment of the holiday. The owners and staff tend to be very friendly and welcoming, and it shouldn't cost any more in the long run than paying for hotel or chalet catering - probably considerably less.
Also, since apres-ski parties and evening entertainment tend to be a much bigger factor in an Austrian ski holiday, it can be constraining to have to be back at one's hotel or chalet for dinner at a certain time. No doubt the same applies in many Austrian villages, except perhaps for those (thankfully relatively few) that that have begun to adopt French/Swiss prices!
PM me if you would like a copy of my own 'Rough Guide' covering all these aspects.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

kosciosco, Hi. We stayed in Westendorf the season before last. Proper town with a reasonable choice of hotels, pensions and restaurants. We had the kitzbuheler All Star(sp) lift pass and this gets you miles & miles of skiing. All pretty well linked up but does involve a very short bus ride to cross the valley into the Kitz' area. Also well linked by bus and train. Take your pick in the morning...the skiwelt area or across to Kitzbuhel. You could ski all day in either and catch a ride back if you want to hang around for some apres.

We went in mid March and it was ridiculously warm when we arrived. Many of the lower slopes were a slush-fest and the bottom of the race course in Kitbuhel needed mowing. Shocked

. These resorts are low but conditions improved very quickly for us after a couple of days snow. These alpine meadows seem to cover rapidly.

Eating/drinking "on the hill" and in town is cheaper than France. Def worth a trip. give it it a go...

You'll need to Register first of course.

Westendorf is the best of the SkiWelt (I really like it - what sort of skiing are you looking for?), with pretty easy links over to Kitz too. I (very) highly recommend the Hotel Glockenstuhl in Westendorf - great food too btw.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Well I've done a bit more research and it doesn't look like driving to Austria is doable due to the car I own. I have 17 inch wheels on my Volvo but you can only buy steel rims that are 16 inch, so that would mean not only buying winter tyres and steel rims but also a new set of chains as well! All sounds a bit too expensive.

So, here is another question, if we decided on Westendorf, where would you fly into (Munich, Innsbruck or Salzburg?) and would you hire a car or just get a transfer? Would have a car be an advantage or is it just an expensive luxury that is of little benefit?

After all it is free

kosciosco, we were in Soll eight months ago, nice enough little town, bit of traffic (mainly out on the by-pass) but plenty of reasonably priced watering/troughing holes, nice mix of quiet bars to rowdy ones. The bus service to the gondola is reasonably efficient (it's not that far to walk) and the gondola itself, though having queues, is not that bad, indeed I've seen a lot worse.

The ski-Welt is large enough, but a bit soulless, IMO feels a bit like a giant theme park in the mountains, and busy too. Looks quite compact on the piste map but don't be fooled, it's a lot rangier on the ground. Soll to Going is a days travelling for most people, as is Soll-Westendorf, allowing for a couple of hours there. Local taxis charge you for the privilage of getting your return timing wrong. wink

Westendorf IMO has the best sliding, some nice interesting runs, especially the long (easy) route down to the Key-West gondola, but conversly the slowest lifts (higher up). Nice quite eateries too.

Going again (as a cheeky last minute cheapie), I'd plump for Brixen or Westendorf as a base, but certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at Soll. We spent a lot (too much?) time in the Austria Hotel bar, being comfortable for two forty somethings, who are not quite ready for their box.

kosciosco, Fly to Salzburg, hire a car (winter tyres are included) and then you have the option to drive around to places like Kitz (go to Kirchberg to get into the system painlessly), St Johann in Tirol, Fieberbrunn, Leogang, etc. All are within very easy driving and the car parks next to the lifts could not be more convenient. If you base yourself in either Brixen or Westerndorf you'll find travelling around much much easier.

BCjohnny, If Ski Welt is soulless then most of the big French areas and North American places must be zombie central! Toofy Grin

There are loads of fun bars and restaurants around the posted and lots of interesting pistes to play on

[edited to iron out the cr@p my iPad put it!]

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kosciosco, Re winter tyres, just put them onto your normal wheels, I do, you dont need steel rims. You live in Bedford I think, I live in North Yorkshire and drive it at least on trip a year. Tunnel and then accross Belgium (third world raods), then Aachen, Koblenz, Koln, Stuttgart and down to Bregenz (we go to Arlberg), if going east then suggest across via Munchen. Yes you do need winter tyres, and chains, and Vignette when entering Austria, roads are excellent in Germany and you get less queuing in my experience. You get warm hospitality, free and very clean toilets, less lift queues, continuous investment in the lift systems, great food and IMO a much more varied weeks skiing than the super-mile munching resorts in France.

We generally dont stay over, but have done in Belgium - we prefer to batter on and get home (and there for skiing) we stop at the first services in Germany (Aachenersee) for a snack (Belgian services are lousy), WC and a short sleep, then crack on down through Germany, Autobahns brilliant.

Go Kitzbuhel ,you'll really like it, great skiing for all levels and superb town.

BCjohnny, nor do I spend all my time in the bars on the mountain or off it! The snowHeads I've skied with will confirm my complete abstinence on the piste and pretty well after skiing as well. I just found your comment about the soulless nature of the SKI WELT area bizarre. Söll is not the best town in that area by miles, but it is cheap and cheerful which is why the British TOs feature it. Ellmau is the nicest on that side of the Wilder Kaiser but Brixen and Westerndorf on the other side beat all the towns on the north side into a cocked hat in my opinion.

Markymark29, there is a much faster route down to the A7 for Arlberg that cuts out the Rhine Valley route completely. PM me if you are interested. I did Munich to Harrogate using it a couple of years or so ago on my own in just over 18 hours including the ferry. I left Munich at 11.00am and arrived at Pateley Bridge at 05.30am the next morning. No tolls and only one tank required (filling up in Luxembourg).

I agree with staying in Kitzbühel but that can be quite a lot more in hotel costs for not much actual gain to be honest. The town itself is very nice at any time of the year. Bang for bucks though, Kirchberg, Brixen and Westerndorf will give you a much better deal.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Sounds like Westendorf is the best option, whether driving direct or flying.

Does anyone have any recommendations for accommodation?

A snowHead

kosciosco, what is your price range and are you doing DIY or going with a TO?

Westerndorf is just down the road from me so if you take a peek at the Tourist Office site and make a selection, I could pop down at some point (I shop regularly in Kufstein and Wörgl so it is not far) and take a look see for you if you like.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Samerberg Sue, Usually we stay in catered chalets in France, sometimes run by TOs like Skiworld or perhaps independent chalet operators as we did last season in Val D'Isere. We usually expect to spend between £799 and £899 for a full catered chalet.

The killer is that there are generally three of us, although we are keeping our fingers crossed that someone might be joining us (if you spot this Patrick, give me the nod) so this means the dreaded single supplement.

What I am figuring on is that although I might have to buy winter tyres, the saving on road tolls and the fact that Austria is cheaper than France should more than make up for it.

Have spotted the hotel Jakobwirt - anyone know anything about it? Looks pretty good.

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kosciosco, it is very central in the village and it is relatively easy to get to the slopes in either direction from there.

They have single rooms as well as family suites with 2 bedrooms and bathrooms, so you can pick and mix according to your group make up. They also do some all-inclusive packages that look interesting price-wise:

http://www.jakobwirt.at/en/packages/super-ski-wochen-im-hotel-jakobwirt

http://www.jakobwirt.at/en/packages/jaenner-pulverschneepauschale.

You'll find the hotel marked on Google maps and the distance to the Alpenrosenbahn is about 500m along a path/road with a very slight gradient or you can get in the car and drive up to Brixen (about 5 minutes away) and link straight into the main Ski Welt via Hochbrixen gondola!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Stayed at St Johann in Tirol couple of years ago and there is an excellent bus service on the ski pass linking the whole area. We tended to head from there to Fieberbrunn as the snow was better that side of the mountain so I don't reckon you'd need a car to explore lots of good skiing.

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kosciosco, the single room thing is much easier in Austria than in France, a good proportion of hotels have them. You should also find that your budget goes a lot further (although this might not be true of certain Austrian resorts such as St Anton and Ischgl).

Personally, I'm not a fan of chalets, but I love the small, family-run Austrian hotels. I've never had anything less than delicious food and excellent service. I agree that Westendorf would probably be the best base for Ski Welt.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

kosciosco, In case you missed it the first time, the Hotel Glockenstuhl is ace - run by a lovely family, great food, nice pool/sauna/'wellness area.' It's a two minute walk into the main town area and the 'Wunderbar', and the nursery slopes (you ski from the top of this chair down to the main Alpenrosenbahn gondola). Hire shop/ski depo right by the nursery slopes too (but beware the depo shuts around 7pm, in case your apres-ing up the hill somewhere).

After all it is free

westendorf- it's great, both locally and around the "allstar" lift pass area.
stayed at hotel post-good value, friendly and handily placed in the village for lifts, bars, eating etc.
excellent piste care too.

geoff

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go for it, skied France for years, spent the last 2 in Austria, and going back for a 3rd time this Easter!

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I've stayed at the Jakobwirt (few years ago though!) - lovely staff and wonderful food - was a great hotel!

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Since the Super Alpen card, the resorts around Kitzbuhel are very appealing IMO. The card covers Kitz, St Johann, Ski Welt, Kaprun, Zee, Saalbach and a few smaller resorts in the region. If you drive down there, you have transport to get to any of those places with ease. Also, staying in kitz with no transport isnt too bad now that the KiWest gondola opened. It means that it is reasonable easy to go up the Hahnenkamm gondola, and ski to Soll and Ellmau, Flacau, etc. and back in the day. you do need to take a short bus ride (4 mins I think) to the bottom of KiWest from Kirchburg but no hassle really.

As for driving there, even at Feb. half term (the only time I can go) it generally only take 20 - 24 hours from Bradford, through Germany. Only main bootleneck is Munich and if you drive through the night, you can get into Austria before a lot of traffic.

Help!!

Thinking of giving Austria a go

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