 Poster: A snowHead
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I've had ski problems but tip dive has never been one of them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyone have thoughts on moguls? While we're here ...
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 14-10-11 17:20; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SkiRider, Moguls: it's not that you can't ski them, it's that you can't ski, etc.
I would expect that rocker per se would be an advantage, however, rocker only seems to feature on fatter skis which is a major disadvantage to skiing bumps "properly"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
SkiRider wrote:
Anyone have thoughts on moguls?
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Haggis_Trap, agree it depends on the amount of rocker, big tail rocker can be fun as it may catch the back of the moguls, but moguls are more down to how you ski them, than the ski your on. Have a look at competitive mogul skis. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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livetoski, what's wrong with comp mogul skis?
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| snowball wrote: |
| I've had ski problems but tip dive has never been one of them. |
If you have ever had problems in difficult snow / crud then its because the tips are submerged.
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Occasionally had a problem with true breakable crust - I mean where you are on top of the crust some of the time but breaking through on turns.
It seems to me you have to break through strongly and carve - it is no good keeping your tips on the surface.
I also prefer to carve through crud rather than be bouncing about on top. Heavy snow I rather enjoy . 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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meandrew, good call as dps are already showing hull variants are being explored at the moment. I think people will have to get used to the idea of looser skis and maybe there will eventually be an acceptance that alpencarven isn't the only way to ski.Quite exciting - look back 10 years and there were just the first shoots of 21st ski progression in teh Pocket Rocket, now heaps of ways it could go.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fat bob wrote: |
| ... maybe there will eventually be an acceptance that alpencarven isn't the only way to ski. |
I see very few people on the hill carving their turns, although everyone uses their edges in just about every turn they make. I don't think edges are going to go out of fashion any time soon, no matter which way the ski is bent.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Haggis_Trap, can I ask where you got the images from? of the ski shapes
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livetoski, there used to be something similar on the moment skis website.
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You know it makes sense.
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looks liker rocker is making its way into race skis:
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Arno, Bet that doesn't last long! Reduction of effective length?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, but you can just about forsee a world where edges engage differently depending on how much you angle the ski and where your presure is. I don't think its necessarily for the mass market yet and it won't make good skiers out of hacks
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| rob@rar, but you can just about forsee a world where edges engage differently depending on how much you angle the ski and where your presure is. |
Yes, definitely, why not? Different skis for different contexts, and the more ski designers can play around with different notions to more innovative ideas will reach the consumer. But matter how funky the designs get I can't imagine skiing moving away from the basic principle that every turn we make is going to involve some blend of pressure, edge angle and rotation, regardless of what nomenclature is used to describe ways of making a turn.
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rob@rar, I am with you on that.
Good skiers can ski on anything.
Poor skiers can't ski.
I'm looking forward ideas about how to make skis that make bumps easy. Don't see them any time soon...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
rob@rar, I am with you on that.
Good skiers can ski on anything.
Poor skiers can't ski.
I'm looking forward ideas about how to make skis that make bumps easy. Don't see them any time soon... |
You've already got them - 11m radius bump skis aren't really all round skis. Ok maybe not easy but easier to chuck around bumps in the hands of an expert user.
I wonder if there is a ski out there that recognises lots of people don't ski very well but are happy with what they do and therefore removes unhelpful performance elements to make them easier to tail skid around with control.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, Easier than what?
Big fat rockered behemoths?
oK fair enough... 
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| fat bob wrote: |
| ... removes unhelpful performance elements to make them easier to tail skid around with control. |
Doesn't the notion of a "performance element" change depending on the kind of skiing that you're doing? Fat, full rocker, reverse camber are all performance elements in certain circumstances, but are, IMO, performance killers in other circumstances.
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rob@rar, I'm just flying a conceptual kite for the purposes of debate. IME e.g. a rockered tip enables a ski to pivot a lot more freely and I think that this is behind some of the "piste rocker" thinking i.e. don't make the tips too hooky. I can sort of see a long ski that is trad say in the middle 130cm or so but then rockered and/or chamfered such that the front and tail edges don't really engage until you get into 3D snow or you're pushing higher edge angles at speed where the longer effective edge lends stability. The Bataleon concept linked to above is quite interesting. This is the putative 1 ski quiver.
Then we have the application in a "leisure" ski. The target customer wants a ski that flatters them, doesn't necessarily need tips that hook up instantaneously and a tail that punishes them for being in the back seat or spits them out faster from the turn. So you build in some ABS, traction control type features with no hook tips and tails that skid around easily. Sure racers won't be pulling it from the rack and it might reward the lazy but if people have fun relatively safely so what?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fat bob wrote: |
| ... so what? |
Indeed, so what. But I bet the marketing boys won't describe it as a ski "with crippled performance elements so it won't punish your ropey technique" 
Is a hooky tip a real problem for many skiers? Didn't we stop "de-tuning" the fronts of skis years ago?
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