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winter driving...... not another darn post

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey all
My question is a bit off what has been discussed a million times already. I am not looking for the best equipment to use, more of what to do.
This will be my first winter where I could be driving in the snow. I am not a bad driver but that has all been in hot conditions. (5 degrees was extremely cold where I was from Very Happy ). What are some tips for just general driving in the cold/snow? Like, how much snow is still ok to drive in? I've heard of black ice but in what conditions is that most dangerous (when does it form). Any advice will do before I wrap my car around a tree and have to use my ski holiday money on car repairs NehNeh
Thanks
Alan
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/seasonal/winter_motoring.html

If you have already spent a winter in UK you will probably already have encountered black ice. It's difficult to see as it's a thin layer of clear ice maybe after rain fell onto the road surface as temps dropped.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

If you have already spent a winter in UK

nope.... first winter here Wink
I did spend a winter in Belgium but with no car so didn't even bother to look at the road.
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AlanB1976, I'd be very careful to look at the road in Belgium with those drivers wink

You may have heard that we had a very sudden start to winter at the end of November 2010 with heavy snow in many parts of the UK. Heavy snow is unusual in most parts but frost/ice isn't. That said, variety is the spice of life Madeye-Smiley
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Tips for driving in frost/snow:

Most roads in the UK and France are salted when the temperature drops near zero, but don't bank on it. Use your eyes and ears. If you cannot hear your types then be very careful, it is almost certainly black ice. Even when salted the snow/ice can form a slush that has very little grip: be careful

On snow, ice and slush drive very smoothly and plan well ahead.

If moving uphill on snow never stop, keep moving at all costs. If you stop you will never get moving again and worst of all every driver behind you will also become stuck. Plan an attack on a hill from a long way away, building up as much speed as you can. Going downhill the reverse is true start slowly and do not get faster.

How much snow you can actually drive in is a difficult question, it depends upon how steep the terrain is. Here in the gently rolling midlands 10cm is usually OK, 20 not so. You can handle deeper snow if you have fitted winter tyres, snow chains etc.

If on a motorcycle never go into the gutter - it can be almost impossible to get out again.
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keep your revs down as much as you can, certainly move up and down through the revs as smoothly as you can, using engine braking rather than brake braking as much as possible (but keep it smooth a big jump in revs if you change down harshly can be as bad as jumping on the brakes). All that said, you need to drive with a bit of confidence and the right speed to not get stuck but not break away the wheels neither.

the 2 most important things are Tyres & Revs. As to when to NOT drive, well assuming you keep in mind the 2 most important things, then you need only give up if its deep enough to completely beach your vehicle Shocked Very Happy

other tips, stick a shovel in the car, a couple of old strips of carpet are great to get you going out of a drift sometimes (home made waffle boards!). Keep your fuel topped up if its really cold as this will help with freezing. have proper concentrated winter screen wash at the ready. Plan your route, try to avoid potentially difficult spots like big hills etc - as much to avoid other cars getting stuck and stopping you as getting stuck yourself.

What's your car? Not the be all and end all but if it's a big heavy rear wheel drive beemer or something then you might have a few extra difficulties.

remember - Tyres & Revs!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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brake on the clutch.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks guys. I wish I had a heavy rear wheel drive. Only a 1.6 Peageut 307 that looked decent used rolling eyes
I've done quite a bit of off road loose sand driving where the principles seem the same - low revs to avoid spin. Watching angles of wheels. Planning hills, etc. Although, with that, I never had to worry about not being able to stop NehNeh . Now at least I got an idea on when I should try to drive to work and when I should just phone in and say "sorry, snowed in"

I read on that AA site that you shouldn't mix antifreeze and long life antifreeze or it could cause problems. I don't know what the hell my car has. I've just bought it Shocked
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Front wheel drive: if struggling up a hill find somewhere safe to turn round and try it in reverse. This sounds a bit radical but I've seen it work.

Rear wheel drive: if struggling up a hill gently apply the handbrake. This will act a bit like a diff-lock and stop one wheel from spinning.

If you end up fitting chains then stop after the first minute and retighten them. If you fit chains on a FWD car remember to fit them on the front (!) and be VERY careful when you get to a col or brow. Although chains are fantastic at pulling you up the hill the back end will try to overtake the front if conditions allow. Embarassed
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I'm hoping that I won't get to the stage of needing chains. I think I'll just turtle up at home then Laughing
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AlanB1976, simple strategy - if the journey time would increase by 50% due to the conditions, then stay put Toofy Grin (the real drawback of setting up so you can always get through is of course that you can always get through!!)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
altis wrote:
Rear wheel drive: if struggling up a hill gently apply the handbrake. This will act a bit like a diff-lock and stop one wheel from spinning.


Not heard that one before, sounds like a good idea in theory though. Although, it's not going to apply a braking force to the 'spinning' wheel, as a differential would. The braking force will be applied evenly to both rear wheels. You might as well just use less revs.. Shocked

The going backward in a front wheeled, front engined car, normally works well, when required.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Take great care where and how you park.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Feast, it's not brilliant but I can assure you it does work - I've used it.

If one wheel is spinning and the other is stationary, which is the handbrake going to have more effect on?

Also, if pushing a RWD car up a snowy hill don't push directly from behind. Instead, push the back end over to one side slightly. This will keep putting new snow under the tyres, give more grip and allow the engine to do more of the work. Again, one learnt by experience.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
AlanB1976, If in doubt stay at home. I spend many a night last winter rescuing stupid people that should have never started their journeys. BMW's with fat tyres going nowhere just blocking the roads. Mind you I did very well out of it with tips and the odd bottle or two.
Amazing how many tree huggers are suddenly your friend when it's snowing and they see you driving a Land Rover with winter tyres and a winch fitted. rolling eyes
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
altis, another good RWD tip there. Very Happy

re: handbrake question, i guess it depends somewhat on the type of handbrake to an extent (drum, disc or hyraulic). I would assume that the spinning wheel will generate heat as the handbrake is applied, hence reducing it's efficiency. Maybe? Hey, if it helps in the slightest it's got to be worth a try. Very Happy

IMHO throttle and clutch control are key to success in snow and ice. But all these little tips might just get you out of a sticky situation one day.
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Spyderman, so..... uh....... what are your driving routes..... just so I know a Landie and winch are handy Laughing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
AlanB1976, Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire, plenty of numpties around for me to have fun when it's snowing.

I did fail to proceed once in a lane last winter, 4'0" deep snow drift on a single track lane with no previous tracks. Took me 3 attempts to get through, I hit it so hard in the end it was like a bomb going off, snow right over the roof. I just thought if anyone saw my tracks and thought they'd follow them they'd be sorry. Laughing
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Black ice isn't black, it is clear ice, it's the road that is black.
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Next thing you are going to tell me is that I shouldn't eat yellow snow
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No but I can tell you that it forms when condensation freezes onto the road surface or more dangerously when there is a temperature inversion with low temperature at ground level but warmer higher up and rain falls and immediately freezes. I have experienced the latter twice and it is simply terrifying.
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hmmmm...... so if the temperature is below freezing, and it rains.... don't go out?
How long does it take to become good again?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
AlanB1976, Normally a couple of days at the end of September.
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AlanB1976 wrote:
hmmmm...... so if the temperature is below freezing, and it rains, AND IT IS A WORK DAY.... don't go out (or at least wear a disguise/protect against incriminating goggle tan)?


fixed it for you Madeye-Smiley
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AlanB1976, there's not much point thinking about chains if you live in an urban area in the UK - your car might be 100% mobile but you'll only go as far as everyone else has. Chains for the Alps, or if you live out in the sticks, sure.

But there is a good argument for getting winter tyres for a cold winter in the UK - if you have two sets they don't wear out any quicker.

You will find that the UK TV news channels feature 24/7 horror stories any time we get more than a few flakes of snow and ice - you're not going to be taken by surprise!

If you have just bought an old banger, well worth getting the battery checked and buying a new one if it's dicey - for starting reliably in a cold winter. Have warm clothes and some bars of chocolate and bottles of water in the car when the weather is horrible - some silly stories last year about people stuck in (widely forecast) bad snow in Scotland moaning because they had no food in the car for their babies. rolling eyes If you are used to driving in Africa you will be aware of the importance of being self sufficient - but it's harder to find a pick up truck full of guys willing to bounce your car out of the ditch for a case of Castle Lager. wink
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AlanB1976 wrote:
hmmmm...... so if the temperature is below freezing, and it rains.... don't go out?
How long does it take to become good again?


I've seen that happen once in Bucharest on a big scale. Several days of -5 to -10 Celsius and then it rains. The whole city turned into an ice rink. I was at an MBA course, all of us having driven there. We fell between 2 and 5 times on the 20-yard walk to the parking lot. Then when we got to the road, it was absolutely surreal. I was doing around 3-5 mph, cars around were the same, and still there was an accident around me every 300 yards. Zero braking power, never felt anything like it. Parked the car in the next parking lot.

Tips for driving in the snow: well most of them are already above. What I could add: the first time you get on the snow, especially if you were already driving on tarmac just before, slow right down much more than you think it's necessary. It's one of the most dangerous times, the brain does not switch fast enough to snow driving speed and you're likely to go twice as fast as you should be.

The other tip: learn to "rock" the car if it gets stuck. That is: slowly rev up while lifting the clutch, as soon as the car moves half an inch, let go, wait for it to slide back and then rock forward again, rev up (a little) while lifting the clutch pedal (a little), let go again quickly, repeat as necessary. It works - got a lot of cars out when just revving up would have done nothing.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
thanks, I've done the rocking to get out of sand. Handy to know its the same.
pam_w, Hmmmm.... You seem knowledgeable on southern africa Smile ..... any chance you are from there?
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