Learning downhill skiing after cross-country - how long does it take?

A snowHead

I’ve booked my first downhill holiday (Sweden) for next season, after 7 years cross-country. I intend to keep up the XC as well, but fancy something that involves a bit less slogging uphill, and the novelty of skis that actually turn. Has anyone else made the transition in this direction, and if so, how did you find the experience of learning downhill? My cross-country snowplough turns are reasonably solid (for a Brit), and I can do stem turns on the right terrain, but I’m not overkeen on speed, which is partly why I want a go at downhill to get used to it.

I’ll be booking lessons, but will need to choose between the TO 5x2 hours, and booking direct with the resort which is 3x2 hrs, but gives me more free days to visit the other local ski areas (not booking complete ski pack with TO, as lift pass and kit are cheaper with resort early booking discount) - but that'll be pointless if after 3 days I'm still utterly rubbish. Hope to get a go in a UK snowdome type place in advance to remind myself how to put boots etc. on and what it feels like – I went on a dry slope a bit as a teenager, but it was 20 years ago. Anyone got any advice on how to get myself progressing relatively rapidly?

A snowHead

You'll definitely have a head start and better balance but will find the skis & kit very different (especially heavier). If you can stem turn on XC skis I would have thought that alpine will come relatively quickly but I'd still go for the 5 days' lessons. Ski in a day course at a snowdome if you're fit maybe - most people find these hard work but with a headstart it might suit you.

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Nineveh, Being used to skiing with freeheels, you could always try telemark downhill skiing. A few years ago I attended a one day Midland Telemark festival at Tamworth Snowdome organised by Matt Higginson, and whilst the majority of Telemark newcomers had come from alpine skiing, there were some there who came from a X-C skiing background.

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I'd vote for 3x2 lessons. I don't think you'll be utterly rubbish after 3x2hr lessons given you're already comfortable sliding on slippery surface. You should be able to enjoy yourself visiting other areas.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Have never done x country but can’t see why you would have a problem, you are already half way there as you are used to wearing skis and going on snow. Took a relative to Cairngorm to learn to downhill ski a couple of years ago who had done x country a few years before, he loved it and picked it up so quickly by the end of the day he skied from the top back down to the car park. As to the lessons if you took the three days and felt it wasn’t enough could you book more?

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@Alastair, I'd completely forgotten about telemark downhill. It always sounds like hard work! I could get to Tamworth, so I'll have a look at Midland Telemark - it would be fun to have a go, even if it's not what I end up doing most of the time.

Thanks for replies, everyone. Sounds like I should give a snowdome a quick go to see how downhill translates for me after skiing in bedroom slippers, but that if that goes all right 3x2 lessons could be a reasonable prospect.

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having done cross country since i was 4/5 and only moving onto downhill skiing last year (age 15) the cross country made absolutely no difference to my skiing, i was poor at starting but after i figured out how to parallel turn and all that i quickly managed almost every slope at the cairngorms. Hate the costs of downhill against XC though, spent at least £500 this year on high end stuff and a gopro, and my skis aren't even that great.

After all it is free

I'd say if you're a good x-c skier, telemark would be a no-brainer. In fact, any upper intermediate or advance x-c skier should add tele turn to their skill set. However, for the average x-c skiers who're afraid of steep downhills and speed, tele is no easier to learn than alpine.

You can do telemark turns on x-c skis (that's where it originally came from anyway). But if you're not too keen on speed even at straightaway, telemark (turn) isn't going to help you overcome that.

Nineveh, don't forget that according to some snowheads, numerous surveys and polygraph testing indicate that Telemarking somehow Puzzled

makes you considerably more alluring to the opposite sex and it may be that you don't actually want all that additional attention. wink

If that is the case, you might want to consider starting your downhill transition with the use of snowblades which according to what some other snowheads say, provides quite the opposite effect. wink

You could of course try getting these natural forces in balance by fitting some tele bindings on a pair of blades. Cool

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Telemarking somehow Puzzled makes you considerably more alluring to the opposite sex

Telemarking it is then Very Happy

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I enjoy controlled speed... It's just those icy downhills on narrow tracks, when I find myself rapidly heading towards a tree/rock/random Norwegian that are less fun. I'm hoping that downhill will have a "It's really not that fast" sort of effect and boost my willingness to ride things out when they get hairy. I'll see! I may yet be found gibbering by the side of the green run.

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Nineveh, The big diffences 'twixt cross country and downhill (Alpine or Tele) will be edges onyour skis - so more grip,, and waaay more supportive boots - which o couse give you more control.

The skis work in more or less the same way - alpine camber will make it easier to control the ski.

You know it makes sense.

The uncontrolled speed is all relative. Everyone has their limit whereby they can reach the discomfort that is uncontrolled speed. I reckon given your experience you will be fine and need very little tuition in order to enjoy yourself DH safely. I've never had a "proper" lesson but have been taught by expert friends with a bit of patience and it really took no more than a few hours to really get a grip with DH so provided you are coordinated and reasonably fit which I suspect you are and with your 7 yrs of cross country under your belt I reckon you'll be tip top.

That said if all goes wrong forget I said anything....hell what do I know? Very Happy

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Nineveh, For someone whose body can manage the balance and physical demands of XC, then I'd have thought less time than it takes to read the replies on this thread.

A snowHead

I've found its harder with people going the other way (downhill to xc), at least when I've been helping out at HNOC ( http://www.nordicski.co.uk/hnoc/ ) open day (which is on 6th November this year) and seen kids who said they could ski reds alpine have grave dificulty on our little downhill mat on track skis.

I think you should be fine, and should find it relatively easy. You'll find you have a lot more control with wide skis and metal edges. You'll find tourning a piece of p1ss compared to track skis as the side cut means the skis actually want to turn. You may hate have your heels fixed. I haven't used alpine kit for a while (I use tele kit for downhill and variety of xc kit), but when I was using both I found i prefered having my heels free.

A snowHead

Nineveh,

I have this quote from Nordicfan junior (who grew up doing XC) "Downhill skiing is a piece of p***. You just have to put the skis on edge and they turn". Having written that, I have just seen Dave's post and I think they may have been comparing notes.

It's funny how things have changed - it used to be the accepted wisdom that anyone who had learnt downhill, would easily be able to pick up the downhill aspects of XC. I think the changes in alpine equipment have made downhill so much easier, that fewer people learn the full range of skills.

ABC has put his finger on your problem IMHO - you need to work on your skill set, or ski somewhere a bit easier, so that you feel in control. I wonder if part of your problem is equipment based? Fishscale skis are not well-suited to downhill turns. If your boots are too floppy, then it will be hard to control the skis.

I don't see many competent xc skiers relying on snowplough turns. I suggest working on step/skate turns, as well as the stem turns if you need to scrub off some speed during the turn. I think they are less effort and go wrong less often than snowplough turns. Adding the ability to do a hockey stop adds a lot of confidence. I have to admit when saying that, that as I get older and more crocked, I don't even attempt one these days.

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I hate to say, that I don't seep x-c giving you much advantage at all. You'll maybe have a balance advantage, and clearly you're used to sliding around with long funny thngs on your feet, but beyond that...totally different experiences and dynamic motions.

Probably help a little in first week but not really beyond that.

But definitely worth doing!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks for all the comments. I've got to say, metal edges and skis that want to turn will be very nice... "Piece of p***" sounds encouraging (albeit not universal!).

Re. downhill on XC, control and all that, the fact is I am a chicken. Despite what I'm about to say, I enjoy going downhill, and I want to be better at it and do it more, but I'm hampered by a tendency to start to worry when there isn't actually anything to worry about, and to wimp out well before it's necessary. I've never found myself hurtling out of control towards a tree/rock/Norwegian, because I make great efforts always to ski in control - and _that_ is the problem. I am not the maniac who throws herself down the mountain to the endangerment of all, I am the person who can find herself standing at the top of a slope that is well within her competence, worries that something will go wrong, skis down absolutely fine if perhaps overly conservatively, and is then p*ssed off that she was such an idiot beforehand. I need to learn to (cliche alert) feel the fear and do it anyway, precisely because it isn't a reasonable fear. The hope is that downhill, offering skis with lots of edge and sidecut and wanting to turn, will help me develop more mental confidence with speed and slope, as well as being fun in itself.

Of course, I also need to improve my downhill XC skills, which are far from brilliant, but my chances of doing that will be much better if I can get myself more comfortable with the sensation of speed in itself, so that I can put the skills I've practiced in gentle conditions into use when it gets tougher and resist the temptation to fall back on a snowplough for a comfortable, but slightly mundane, run. The suggestion of a solid hockey stop is a good point - I'd probably profit a lot from a morning on the right slope putting some dedicated practice in on that and being able to think "well, I can always wimp out like that instead".

Short version: downhill skiing will force me to accept falling over at higher speeds Toofy Grin

And I really ought to get myself to a fridge pronto and see what happens.

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Alpine skiing after XC skiing is a walk in the park, I learned it that way around and shorter skis, plastic boots and steel edges were a dream come true. Honestly I feel I am far more likely to hurt myself of XC skis, some of the Norwegian trails are really technical and fast.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

We all go down the hill slower than what we MAY be able to manage. At least most of us who're not racing are.

You may be able to go faster after "getting used" to speed. Though I have my doubts. 100 feet wide gentle slope on 70mm wide skis and hard plastic boots simply doesn't give you the same sense of "speed & danger" as going down a narrow track with trees a mere 2 feet away (and a bend at the bottom) while on 40mm width floppy skis with no heel attachment! Even if you are actually going a lot faster on those alpine slopes. You may come back from your alpine holiday to find the x-c tracks just as scary as before.

After all it is free

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Nineveh, I think some of the English cross-country ski clubs sometimes book snowdome sessions, so you could practice in company. There is a list of registered clubs on the Snowsport England website here: http://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/cross-country-

I know Manchester Club are off to Trafford, and the London Region Club have been to Hemel in the past. The Midland Ski Club also used to use their local 'fridge, but I don't they do now.

I am a big fan of Justyna, but she I agree she doesn't like the downhills. However, one of the reasons for the frantic stepping around the high speed corners that the racers do, is that it is faster than other techniques. Liv-Grete Poiree was a star at this and I have seen her closing the gap on other athletes who paralleled the corners. But doing that on a fast downhill turn needs very good skills and great timing and balance.

Where do you ski in Norway? I learnt in Oslomarka, and some of the trails there were very tricky. Dave is right about world cup race courses. The Lillehammer one appears to go down and up the old slalåm slope. One in Ruhpolding is known as "The Wall".

You know it makes sense.

Help!!

Learning downhill skiing after cross-country - how long does it take?

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