Poster: A snowHead
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By which I mean a resort of my choice - group will have to like whatever I chose....
4xintermediate piste bashers, 1xearly beginner. Mid 30yr olds, all like good food & wine on the cheap (too much time in the catering industry....) and trendy but not necessarily pumping nightlife.
Also need an extensive well-linked network with ski-in, ski-out accomodation.
Courchevel would fit the bill but I want to stay off the 3V for a bit. Ditto Paradiski and Espace Killy.
Discuss suitable alternatives and provide your reasons please.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Manda, I'm going to Saalbach this year and it seems to fit your criteria - not too sure about 'well-linked'. Although not having been yet I can't really comment
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Portes du Soleil, specifically Avoriaz (well, you asked for ski in/out).
Area stats if you don't know them, ~200 lifts, ~650km piste, much intermediate blues and reds. You will not ski the area in a week, or two. Beginner access dead easy.
Good (better than many) mountain food. Not any more expensive than anywhere else.
Easy Geneva access.
Decent nightlife.
Linkages into Linga, Les Crosets, Champery, Champoussin and Morgins all by chairlift. Others involve short walks/buses.
Some alternative ski schools if anti-ESF.
Good snow record in recent years, NAO notwithstanding and reasonably high (~2,450m) while retaining good under tree line stuff for bad weather.
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How long are you going for?
What are your reasons for wanting "well-linked"?
Saabach would be a good bet. Or: Whistler, Big Sky, Wengen, Badgastein, Vail...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Manda, La Rosiere fits the bill in every respect but the amount of ski-in ski-out accomodation is limited. However, that shouldn't be the deciding factor because the pluses more than compensate. Good skiing with international links, some of the best mountain food in the Alps at reasonable cost, especially in Italy. Reasonable nightlife without being overrun by the 18-30 imbeciles, great snow-record, friendly village, just about the lowest priced lift pass in the Alps, sunny south facing slopes, wide range of instruction, superb off-piste potential, best value heli-skiing anyway. What else do you need?
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Manda, Wengen might just fit the bill, especially if the others in the group are near Southampton, flights from there to Bern airport this year mean a significant time saving
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Manda, Wengen might just fit the bill, especially if the others in the group are near Southampton, flights from there to Bern airport this year mean a significant time saving
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1week.
I know I'll be told to try something new, but I find it a criminal waste of my time and lift-pass money having to waste time on public transport to get from my accomodation to the slopes, or from one set of slopes to another.
I'm lazy and greedy.
That's why.
Grindelwald pretty much pi$$ed me off coz I was spending half my morning getting to the slopes linking into Wengen.
David Murdoch, Portes came to mind - another FSN to knock off.
Cathy Coins, let us know how you like it!
Any other ideas?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Murdoch, btw your comment
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You will not ski the area in a week, or two |
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I'm not a great skier, but I am definately one of the "bashers" of this world.... watch this space.
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Nothing in the high st in Salbach is very far from the lifts so minimal walking. Good-ish nightlife but the oompah bars just on the hill...don't worry you will find them....are great. Good standard Austrian hotels at good value prices. Ski-in, ski-out just would not be my defining criteria as it rules out so much worthwhile places.
If that is what you must have you may well be stuck in Mottarett, Belleplagne etc. There is nothing wrong in those paces if they have most of what you need but you are passing on so much IMO.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Quote: |
Ski-in, ski-out just would not be my defining criteria as it rules out so much worthwhile places. If that is what you must have you may well be stuck in Mottarett, Belleplagne etc. There is nothing wrong in those paces if they have most of what you need but you are passing on so much IMO.
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Very true, but that is what some people want, despite knowing what they miss out on. It may not be what they will always want of course.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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slikedges,
Yes, I know you have little ones and ski-in/out is a god send or absolute must. It would be for me as well in the same position, I think..
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Manda, so go to Wengen, the cablecar only takes about 5 mins provided you dont try to go up arround ski school start time, if you do then expect to queue, the train takes less time as well
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You know it makes sense.
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D G Orf, they're piste-bashers looking for trendy night-life, with good food & wine on the cheap. Is Wengen the first place one would think of with that criteria?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cathy Coins, surprisingly (with the possible exception of the trendy night life) the answer is actually yes, if they went for half board accomodation in almost any of the Wengen hotels they could eat very well, whilst my favorite hotel the Alpenrose does not have a huge wine cellar it does have a reasonably sized one, plus the hotel bar is one of the cheapest in the resort, and the food is very good, five course (set) evening meal most nights except when there's a buffet, I've friends who have worked in one of the most expensive hotels in the UK and they thought that the Alpenrose meals were better than at the hotel they'd worked at, oh and for the last 1.5 seasons the owner has been cooking crispy bacon and fried eggs for breakfast, lovely For really really good food and fine wines I'd suggest the Hotel Schonegg at the top of the main street, I ate there two seasons ago and was very impressed but it is expensive, for cheap one could try the Bernerhof (virtually next door to the Schonegg) which apparently has good food with fair accomodation.
Many of the hotels in Wengen are close to the end of the ski run so whilst you may not be able to ski in and out you can get close to skiing back to many of them, the only two you can ski in and out of are the Hirshen and the Brunner but they are both quite a way out of the village center, so's the Alpenrose but at least it's downhill to go back to the hotel
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Poster: A snowHead
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D G Orf, IMHO, the Jungfrau isn't quite as extensive as the PDS and I find the train rather slow albeit very charming (!).
THat said on a sunny day it's one of the most magnificent areas I've ever seen.
If Manda's really on for hard core piste (motorway?) munching tho, I'd remain in the PDS camp. (But as you may have noticed, my default position on the PDS is somewhere on the same lines as yours on Wengen!)
Manda, "I am definately (SP) one of the "bashers" of this world.... watch this space", oh yeah?
Challenge DM time then!
There is an old rep dare (which I have always got distracted from when attempting so have not achieved...I mean, "do we ski that lovely patch of powder today or complete a rather contrived circuit of the area? Darn, powder won't be there tomorrow. I'll just poach that wee line there then.") It has a name - something like the "PDS triangle" - and essentially involves skiing round the PDS but including three extremities.
But thinking about it, it would be irresponsible for me to go into any details...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, I'd have to agree, the train is slow, although if you look at how far it takes you it's not that bad, typical chairlift say 3 to 5 min wait in a queue followed by say 6 mins of travel time covering maybe 2km total time perhaps 10mins, train jump on as soon as one appears (allowing for messing around with skis) say 2mins followed by say 25mins journey time to cover 7 km, so in fact the train is no worse really than many other lifts, it just seems so because of the distance covered in one go.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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D G Orf,
Surely it is the vertical distance covered in lifts that is important as one can always find a longer way to ski down but not a bigger vertical distance.
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T Bar, there comes a point where only the most foolhardy will attempt to ski a slope, I was thinking of more normal runs, however comparing similar distances, the Gondola from Grindelwald to the Mannlichen covers just over 3000 ft of verticle and takes about 20 mins depending on weather conditions etc, the train from Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg ascends just under 3000ft and takes about 25mins, so there's not a lot in it really, of course the train can opperate in higher winds so it has a slight advantage in poor weather
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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T Bar, you could always make a bigger vertical difference. You might not live to tel lthe tale though
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D G Orf,
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so go to Wengen, the cablecar only takes about 5 mins |
Yes, Wengen does appear to have better slope access than Grindelwald. Which makes Wengen a better base for my needs.
To be honest, Grindelwald's dining/nightlife would pretty much be ok for my group. Quite liked the slope-side Oompa bands. In the villages the hotels all seemed to be good quality service and food regardless of star rating. So taking your comments regarding Wengen into account, Wengen would probably do the trick. But I've been "thereabouts" before so am looking for somewhere else, sorry.
To give you a better idea, even Tignes would do it for slopes/accomodation/nightlife (I stayed in the Mark Warner hotel and spent most of my time drinking over the road in a cosy pub where the massive wolf-hound resides - can't recall name).
We're not precious about having to have 5* quality - just good quality for the advertised level of service, and not over-run by chav customers. Ideally there would be *somewhere* in the resort we could occassionally nip off to for good quality wines/food/coffee, even if our hotel wasn't first class in the food department.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 15-08-05 9:16; edited 1 time in total
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Cathy Coins, just had a look at Saalbach's details. You're right, it does seem good - excellent linked network, and good reviews of the resorts. But, and the only but: Couchevel claims 180km of prepared pistes for it's sector of the 3V. Saalbach = 200km of prepared pistes for the entire Circus.
Er...... probly not enough.
Sigh.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Manda, You're talking yourself into a PDS corner IMHO
If your ski in/ski out constraint isn't so "hard" then check out (shameless plug for my mates) http://www.mountainhighs.co.uk/new_regains.html It is ski in and out but only from the Les Gets side. A short (5min) walk across town to the SuperMorzine bubble towards Avoriaz.
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If it weren't for the beginner, I would recommend St Anton. How gung-ho are they?
Not necessarily ski in/ski out, but fairly close. A large area with plenty to challenge intermediates or above, and fairly easy to get to Lech and Zurs for some easy cruising.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer, so long as St Anton has learner slopes/ski school then it might do the trick.
Otherwise yes,David Murdoch, it could be PDS! But I'm keeping an open mind.
Ski-in/ski-out isn't "hard" save to say that I won't tolerate a 20-50min bus and/or train to the skilifts.
I'm also minful that ski-in/ski-out isn't just a function of where the village is in relation to the snow line - it's even a problem in some purpose built resorts! Meribel skiers can spend over 30mins on the local bus just getting to the slopes....
But so long as the accomodation puts us within a (max) 2-5min walk to the lifts, and some reasonable nightlife, then I'm happy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Manda, Have you considered the Sella Ronda area in the Dolomites? Seems to me it would fit the bill for most of your requirements especially intermediate piste bashers and good cheap food/wine consumers.
Arabba may be a bit quiet in the evenings but does have ski in/out, some more challenging skiing and a good nursery area accessed directly from the town. There are many other alternatives - Selva, Canazei, Corvara, La Villa to name but a few.
Sorry if this is off track but it was just a thought I had.
You wont beat the scenery either!!
CP
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Manda, keep that mind open! If you don't mind the 2-5 minute thing then Morzine or Les Gets - in fact almost any of the PDS stations should be OK. Avoriaz, if you don't mind the, err, idiosyncratic architecture probably wins on convenience (IMHO).
Haven't been to Sella Ronda but had a delightful weekend in Cortina. Cortina itself isn't likely to suit but I can heartily second the comment about dolomitic scenery. Quite extraordinary.
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You know it makes sense.
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Soll, good nightlife and the nursery slopes are a short walk from the centre so everyone will walk together to get to the lifts or classes. And the mountain is good enough that early intermediates will be able to navigate around so skiing together might be possible for the whole group if the less experienced is not timid. And Soll shouldn't break the bank as the hotels are reasobale and good value. A very good all-round holiday destination that Austria excells at IMO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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D G Orf, well tried.I think i would have had to mention Wengen this time..
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Poster: A snowHead
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CP thanks for the idea, will definately look into it. However
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good cheap food/wine consumers |
Not quite what we're after.
I blame Mr Manda (ex-chef and now cafe owner) and his partner-in-commerce for our champagne-tastes-on-a-beer-budget preferences - it's a burden we'll just have to bear.....
Er hem. Where was I? Oh yes. So long as a resort has at least a few good quality eateries/quafferies then that should suit us. Food/alcohol doesn't need to be snobby or pretentious, but it does to be good quality for what it is - I've had wonderful meals at no-star extablishments and crap ones at so-called 5* ones.
David Murdoch I've not been to PDS before, so by "idosyncratic" I presume you mean awful?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CP The Good Skiing & Snowboarding Guide says Sella Ronda is full of "mainly blue and unproblematic red runs"and "ideally suited to cruisers who really want to put some mileage beneath their skis each day".
Scenery aside which by all accounts is spectacular, it sounds just too uninteresting for our more adventurous intermediates, sorry.
But keep the alternatives coming in! (Otherwise it might end up being PDS!!!)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, I thought about the SkiWelt, but keep being put off by the plentitude of "short runs" most of which are blue!
And the fact that bussing is still required - it's not as interlinked as it likes to think it is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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D G Orf, an (un)interesting fact, you have mentioned Wengen in 438 posts to date (and the Hotel Alpenrose in 54). You must be on commission!!
David@traxvax has only mentioned La Rosiere 265 times.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ray Zorro, you have too much time on your hands
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ray Zorro, Your counting!
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No, the search facility does it all in seconds.
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Manda, "idiosyncratic = awful" not in my book, it looks great mid-winter, but my opinion not shared by everyone. You going there for the skiing or what?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Murdoch, for the skiing and for the "or what". But mainly the skiing. I've skied purpose-built France before - I can shut my eyes to archetectural eyesores. But point taken - one man's eyesore is another's jewel of the eye. For example (and not wishing to start anything here!) I find Tignes to be quite pretty.
On the other hand Grindelwald was gorgeously chocolate boxy, but sometimes so much so that it felt wrong somehow.
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