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The future of ski retail chains in the UK [new Snow+Rock CEO appointed]

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
New Snow+Rock CEO announced - see 23 July posting


Don't know whether this has been posted before but I thought these points by Dion Taylor, who's been involved with Snow+Rock since its foundation (for many years as its CEO) are very interesting ...

http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/people/1898/getting-to-know-you-dion-taylor-ceo-snow-rock-group/

The Snow+Rock and Ellis Brigham chains have dominated ski retailing in the UK for some time, but retail is changing so much.

Where do you get your kit, and why?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 23-07-13 14:22; edited 3 times in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My kit is from Trespass outlet shop and Decathlon. Skis were bought secondhand and I will buy ski boots in resort. I've never used EB or S+R, way out of my price range. Therein lies the problem I think...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I was told that the London Ski Show did not feature the usual big presence of S+R this year, but that there was a kind of Snow+Rock+Minicab set-up, so that customers could be whisked to Ken High Street.

That struck me as innovative thinking!
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Mainland Europe, it's cheaper.
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Most people that walk through the door of EB or S+R are not thinking cheap or focussed on saving money. I did stints in Ken High St back in the day and some people come in to equip the entire family from head to toe and couldn't care what it costs.
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... and by the way, Dion T stood down as CEO of S+R yesterday. A near 30 year stint.
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Congratulations to Dion - a remarkable career, a legend in fact, and I'm sure much interesting stuff ahead. Used to ski with him quite a bit and once (in St Anton) saw him carry the founder of Snow+Rock Mike Browne through a mountain restaurant. Mike was paralysed in a ski accident in Sainte Foy but quickly took to sit-skiing and then competitive yacht racing. Two astonishing people.

What Swiller says is how it was. The boom in equipment sales in the 1970s (when I worked in retail at the (mainly) London chain Alpine Sports) was incredible. We'd fit a non-stop flow of skis and bindings on a Saturday, with boots flying off the shelves. In this recession, the outcome of the premium sector of the market will obviously determine the future of the big chains.
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Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
...Where do you get your kit, and why?


I have contact with K2 through my work so I've got stuff at major discount prices in the past and sometimes for free when they've had end-of-line stuff hanging around. That has seriously helped, especially when it comes to boards and bindings - me and the misses wouldn't have the gear we have now without having contacts like that, we just wouldn't have been able to afford it.

In the past I've bought used boards off ebay, bags and other accessories from small, independent internet shops (Slide, Bluetubes, Freeride) plus I've had some good deals in the Two Seasons sales on the website. TK Maxx is the obvious place for me when it comes to clothing - massive savings over the big snow shops, albeit for gear that is a season or two old.

I bought a jacket from TSA/EB a few years ago but it was in the '50% off' sale (it was still £140, a birthday present).... although there's a massive selection and the staff do seem to know their stuff, I do feel like it's way out of my price range for key items such as bindings, boards, helmets etc... mind you, after a recent fitting, I might be pushing the boat out and buying new boots from them. Just wish their website sale selection was available in-store, then I'd be visiting them more often.
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Just watched the TV ad for Aldi boasting of equipping a child to ski for sub £25.00 (clothing not hardware)
Thats more of a threat to mainstream retailers and school trip operators than any other single action....


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 1-12-12 14:56; edited 1 time in total
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I assume this means skis, not clothing??? I can't see for any reason how or why you would rent in the UK???? What possible sense could that make?

Great timing for Dion to move on, I think.
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Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Where do you get your kit, and why?

Never from the UK. Why: I don't like being gouged.

Even if I could get over that:

  • I'd still want to buy things I ride somewhere I can try them out and get them fettled if necessary. A snowdome is not close enough to the real thing for that purpose, for me.
  • You don't get the same range of gear in the UK. They tend to ship a restricted range, with flatland and beginner-oriented stuff predominating.
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Comedy Goldsmith, Ski hardware is bought on Ebay mainly. Madeye-Smiley


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 4-12-12 14:56; edited 1 time in total
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skimastaaah, Do you decare your sales for tax ? (unlike ebay for some)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Bode Swiller wrote:
Most people that walk through the door of EB or S+R are not thinking cheap or focussed on saving money. I did stints in Ken High St back in the day and some people come in to equip the entire family from head to toe and couldn't care what it costs.

Ah but are you perhaps making the assumption that Kensington High Street is or was ever representative of the UK market as a whole?

Might I also suggest that EB has a slightly different view of said market to that other lot in as far as they actually have stores close to higher ground in the UK and seem less interested in opening flatland boutiques for the rich and famous.

Having said that I don't know which business model works better but I know which one I'd rather frequent and which I'd recommend first!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Living in the south west means that there are far fewer choices. There is an independent retailer within 30 miles of me and a S&R and Nevis Sport within 45miles and that's as good as it gets. I have bought from bought from all 3 but tend to wait for sales. That said Nevis Sport is the most competitive in terms of price (I picked up my skis there at a knock down price).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
A few more personal insights from Dion Taylor, again from last February ...

http://www.retail-week.com/people/my-retail-life/dion-taylor/5033258.article

Quote:
What keeps you awake at night?
"The current retail climate."


From the earlier link above ...

Quote:
"In today’s world and especially in the current economic climate retail is incredibly challenging and a large section of the market seems to be focused just on price."


It seems a bit weird that there's no UK ski trade news channel on the internet, or is there something on subscription? Those two quotes are from non-specialised sources.
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skimastaaah wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith, Ski hardware is bought on Ebay mainly. I have a simple approach, what I buy and sell on Ebay pays for what I buy and keep..... Spend my money on getting to the alps and skiing......


Although I do like the idea of having the latest and newest, like you I know it's not feasable when that cost eats into the actual cost of getting to the snow in the first place. I like your buy and sell style - makes sense and is what is currently topping up my holiday fund; £15 here, £25 there for stuff I no longer needs soon adds up.... I'm effectively looking at two ski passes being paid for by stuff I just had lying round the house. No brainer really Smile
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Cynic, There's no actual profit, just ski gear that costs a fraction of the high street.

Specialman, exactly that, a no brainer converting gear/equipment that I no longer use into cash to fund another ski trip.
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I use the indi guys (Snowsafe, Edge & Wax, Jons Ski Tuning, Snowshepherd, Rivington Alpine, sockshop........all great guys who care about their customers and their products) for most of my hardware (av gear etc) and wherever i can, plus Sport Conrad (online and in Garmisch shop in summer sales) Jennwein and Sport Pete (both St Anton in Easter sales) and also other German places in the summer sales (Bittl, Boarderstuff). I only use S&R when sales on (BD Factores boots and Mantra skis), eBay for base/ mid layer Icebreakers. WD for my Redeemers. Snowchains, Thule roofbox and roofbars online roofbox.co.uk/ roofracks.co.uk and Never used Ellis Brigham, Cotswold OK in the sales.....I just research a lot and know what i want and make sure I get the right gear at the right price, via UK indi guys if possible....my mates are the same.
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roga wrote:
Ah but are you perhaps making the assumption that Kensington High Street is or was ever representative of the UK market as a whole?
Nope. But in every part of the country there are those who just want all the gear and they are prepared to pay the price. Could be that a well-paid professional person in, say, Bristol, has a higher expendable income that the same person in Kensington so geography doesn't necessarily matter. The likes of S+R spend lots of money on detailed demographics before opening a store.
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Not Snow and Rock or Edge and Wax, way too expensive. Couldn't care less if I am not supporting UK companies, become more competitive and they'll get my custom.
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Bode Swiller, I think EB must get a different set of demographics given they actually open shops near hills and mountains in the UK and chances are they more directly serve the 'serious' indigenous market as a consequence!

Call me naive if you will but I've always thought it a little telling that Slush and Rubble seem to steer well clear of anywhere that might have anything other than a high concentration of well off holiday mountain visitors.

With regards Bristol, yes I can see your point must be why I steer clear of that store too ... that and having 'experienced' their 'service' on a couple of occasions when I was foolish enough to spend some cash there but that (was) 's a whole other thread Wink
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enfilade wrote:
Not Snow and Rock or Edge and Wax, way too expensive. Couldn't care less if I am not supporting UK companies, become more competitive and they'll get my custom.


Possibly the reason why "retail" is losing out to savvy web-buying.
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roga, you may have a point. Let's see how this news pans out, and what may be involved.

If you trace this back to the era when I was a minor shop-hand, at Alpine Sports' 309 Brompton Road shop in the mid-1970s (certainly the most exciting ski shop in London at that time, with Pindisports and Lillywhites our main competitors) ... we were into the affluent South Kensington demographic and beyond. People spent hundreds of squid on 'American royal flush' combinations of Hexcel skis (aluminium honeycomb core), Spademan bindings (revolutionary but mad) and Hanson boots (early rear-entry futuristic nonsense).

So, yes, Snow+Rock (founder Mike Browne was a previous marketing director of Alpine Sports) was born from that demographic and objective.
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^ yup but I can't believe you were ever "minor" in anything Mr G Wink

It's not such a bad strategy anyway, not a serious one for those 'serious' about the mountains IMHO, but an excellent commercial one. After all with current economics who better to sell to than the guys that caused the mess but have got away scot free with money to spare whilst everyone one else feels the squeeze, no brainer!

I'm making the presumption here there are plenty of w... sorry bankers and those sorts in these well off areas of London Toofy Grin
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roga, EB's most successful stores are in central London and central Manchester. Yes, they've got Snowdonia, Ft William, Aviemore but the business end of this business is the major conurbations and the affluent holidaymaker.
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Bode Swiller, yup not particularly surprising but their heart seems to be in the right places and that's why I'll buy from them in preference to S&R but I'm probably not in the right demographic anyway Wink

BTW, I would have thought there'd be a decent demographic in Edinburgh actually but even that seems a bit close to high ground! Razz
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Comedy Goldsmith wrote:

Where do you get your kit, and why?


Well clothing wise a mix of of TackyMaxx, Sportspursuit, Skiwear4less and Aldi/Lidl, I'm only worried about if it keeps me warm and dry, not in slightest interested in what the fashionistas say this seasons colours are so see no point paying full whack for this years when last years will perform fine!
Skis have come from on here, ebay, in the case of my Storms direct from Storm (a local company). Or the TSTs I've treated myself to today are coming from an Armada dealer (verified as for real by the Armada website) in the Czech Republic. 20% cheaper than UK prices, paypal payment so no worries there and UPS should be delivering them mid week. The single European market in operation and something the UK chains will have to learn to compete against.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Aldi, Lidl, Skiwear4Less & ebay for the kids.

Various online retailers (inc. Amazon & ebay), TKMaxx, Scotty Doc, Jon and a few others from on here and odd bits in resort. I usually refrain from buying clothing online as I appear to be such an unusual shape.
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davkt wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:

Where do you get your kit, and why?


Well clothing wise a mix of of TackyMaxx, Sportspursuit, Skiwear4less and Aldi/Lidl, I'm only worried about if it keeps me warm and dry, not in slightest interested in what the fashionistas say this seasons colours are so see no point paying full whack for this years when last years will perform fine!
Skis have come from on here, ebay, in the case of my Storms direct from Storm (a local company). Or the TSTs I've treated myself to today are coming from an Armada dealer (verified as for real by the Armada website) in the Czech Republic. 20% cheaper than UK prices, paypal payment so no worries there and UPS should be delivering them mid week. The single European market in operation and something the UK chains will have to learn to compete against.


Nice - did you have to translate from Czech though?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Nope they have an English website
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Surprised nobody has mentioned Surfanic... I've been impressed with the quality and prices of their stuff.
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NPR








Never Pay Retail Very Happy
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^^ What he said.
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Skiing always was and always will be a rich mans sport, we just join in at the fringes.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
roga, EB's most successful stores are in central London and central Manchester. Yes, they've got Snowdonia, Ft William, Aviemore but the business end of this business is the major conurbations and the affluent holidaymaker.


Two EB in central Manchester very close to each other, the one just off Deansgate very often has sales where stuff, even current season stuff is at least half price. It's a genuine sale and real bargains are to be had, I have had gear from here that I would never had paid full price for.
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Wherever the product I want is cheapest, I have bought from the UK, Germany, Austria and the US. I have found UK sale prices on skis can be pretty good, have also bought a couple of items of clothing from EB in the sale because they were the cheapest.
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Layne, Yup on Surfanic though for me and the kids any we have comes from TakkyMax
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anywhere and everywhere, whoever is cheapest for what i want to purchase. from ebay to snow and rock, with many inbetween.
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Just bought ski boots from S&R along with fitted soles (he knew all about pronating feet and mine really pronate....and which boots fitted very narrow feet) - the service and knowledge of the staff was brilliant - avoid weekends!!!! Proof of the fit will be in the skiing. Didn't think price was too bad and the other place has a current 10% discount for members. However, would probably buy skis over the internet and clothes online as well.

What I do find gobsmacking about UK retail is the cost and total lack of urgency over ski servicing - you expect overnight servicing in the alps - not - it will be two weeks as certain establishments in this country - yes I should learn to do my own.
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