Poster: A snowHead
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So, following on from my last question about using one pair of boots for everything, I'm wondering if it is at all practical to use one pair of skis for everything. I'm actually assuming the answer is 'no' this time, but it would be nice to have a second opinion!
What I'd like is to get one moderately hefty pair of skis that will serve just fine for lift served off piste (or even on the piste...) and day tours but will also work for multi-day hut-to-hut stuff. I've just been looking at the K2 Sideshow as one possibility here, and the Scott Crusair was also suggested. The Sideshows are moderately heavy for touring (3.7kg a pair without bindings... that'll be quite heavy even with dynafits) but shouldn't compromise on the downhill bit at all and should be okay on nastier snow. For day tours that seems like a bit of a no-brainer. For multiday trips, people seem to say that weight is everything (as you'll be spending most of your time on the up) and so having skis better on the down isn't really worth it. Also, there's a greater risk of mangling your skis in poor conditions on longer tours. Given that special purpose touring skis can often be had for a fair few pennies less than multipurpose things, replacing them would be a lot less financially painful.
I'm (hopefully) going on a ski-mountaineering course in the spring, which finishes with a 3 day trip starting in Chamonix. The company running the course suggest things like the Black Diamond Guru or Scott Aztec Pro. Neither are heavier than 3kg. Photos from the course in previous years had people using hired trab freerando things that looked like a pair of little skis glued together... they're reasonably lightweight too.
So, question number 1: will heavier skis be a terrible idea on anything other than a day trip, or will spending a few more days in the gym mean I'll cope fine with heavy gear and have more fun on the down?
Question number 2: is it a silly idea to try to get all purpose skis anyway?
I'm assuming the answer to (2) is 'yes', but if anyone had any other useful advice that would be great
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Look at DPS Skis and PM Gear.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You could do what I do and have several pairs of multipurpose skis...
Confession: I haven't yet done a multiday tour. If I had, I would probably realise I need lighter skis as a touring option (and in fact, the next time I'm getting skis, they will probably be something light with a Dynafit binding). For 2-3 hour tours, I've been happy with heavier skis as I much prefer them on the way down.
For most other uses, you can stick with one pair of skis. For a while I used only Scott Missions everywhere, then Kneissl Tankers (with Naxos / Barons respectively). On the trip to Chile I took only the DPS 112 RP and very much enjoyed them. I'm aware that I'm losing some performance at either end of the spectrum (hard piste / bottomless pow) but it's not enough to worry me.
The lightness thing, though...only you know how much touring you will really get and how fit will the other group members be. (I used to be last in a group of older skiers, but I got better and now I tend to be faster than the average of my group - but they're not die-hard tourers).
The DPS Pure range are pricey but very light for their size and skiability, though not Trab-like light. Ask Arno about his Wailer 105s...
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3.7 kg a pair isn't that much esp if you put dynafits on them. my wailer 105s are supposedly over 3kg a pair and they feel featherweight with Dynafit TLT Speeds on them
on multi-day tours, weight is a factor but is not everything (IMO). you see people who disagree with this - they are the ones doing stem turns and generally flailing down the descent that you just spent 5 hours climbing (there are some exceptions to this but they are really good skiers)
so... i would go for the K2s if you like the look of them and make sure you have the ability to use dynafits on them (a plate or inserts will allow you to swap bindings when you don't want to use dynafits.) a mate recently got himself some Scott Powdairs and likes them for all purpose use. The DPS are great but pricey. I actually enjoyed my old touring skis a lot - some Blizzard Titan 9s - lovely freeride ski - not particularly light or heavy. I did the hardest tour I have done on them and I wouldn't call myself super-fit. I really appreciated their skiability on the downhill and they weren't a hindrance on the up
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, I am of course a little biased
However it maybe an idea to look at some Movement skis, we have sold quite a few to people for touring and general all mountain use.
The other interesting thing at the moment is the new Movement Trust, there is a lot of talk on the Swedish chat forums about this being a possible one ski that can handle, piste, off piste, freeride, touring and the like. To be honest they are a little heavier than some others but I can see where the Sweds are coming from.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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To echo Arno 3.7kg really isn't that much, I tour on skis that are 4.3kg per pair.
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Serriadh wrote: |
I'm (hopefully) going on a ski-mountaineering course in the spring, which finishes with a 3 day trip starting in Chamonix. |
It doesn't sound as if your going to be doing lots of touring as yet, so why not hire a pair for this course, so you can compare how they feel to your alpine skis?
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Serriadh,
You might end up buying all the kit and then end up not doing much touring.
Unless you are sure you will be doing a lot of touring you are probably better off buying boots (dynafit compatible) and hiring skis. Saves on airline shipping costs and you can select the skis to suit the tour. Gives you a chance to try different touring skis as well so you can make your own mind up where the best compromise in downhill and performance is for you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kitenski wrote: |
It doesn't sound as if your going to be doing lots of touring as yet, so why not hire a pair for this course, so you can compare how they feel to your alpine skis? |
I'm keeping my options open at the moment; hiring is still a distinct possibility. If it does turn out that there's one ski that'll do everything out there, I may as well get it
I have no doubt that there will be plenty of day touring in my future; I've done some less than fun traverses and short climbs in alpine gear in the past, which sucked. At the very least, I'm looking at getting an 'all mountain' ski of some kind, with something like a set of sollyfit plates and suitable bindings. I'm mostly wondering about whether it is worth me getting a less hefty ski that will let me go further, but which won't end up being a waste of time and money if I don't often use it for such.
DB wrote: |
Serriadh,
You might end up buying all the kit and then end up not doing much touring.
Unless you are sure you will be doing a lot of touring you are probably better off buying boots (dynafit compatible) and hiring skis. Saves on airline shipping costs and you can select the skis to suit the tour. Gives you a chance to try different touring skis as well so you can make your own mind up where the best compromise in downhill and performance is for you. |
I'm currently intending to get a pair of fairly stiff freeride/touring boots with interchangeable soles that'll have dynafit sockets. There's much less to compromise on in boot-land, which is nice. If only all the rest of the gear was as straightforward.
As for hiring some touring gear and having a play on it first... I am having startling difficulty in finding any rental touring kit that isn't 'trab plus fritschi', but I'm currently putting that down to a) not asking google the right questions or b) getting round to asking really people about touring kit hire. Or possibly c) touring hire specialists are not saying much on the internet.
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Where are you planing to go touring? Perhaps someone here knows where to get touring gear in a particular resort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Serriadh, you will definitely be able to find some decent freeride skis with fritschis or marker touring bindings in Chamonix. I'd say these will be fine for what you are planning now
finding rental Dynafit setups is more difficult but if you can do it anywhere, Chamonix would be the place. Suggest you try places like Snell, Coquoz, Sports Alpins and Sanglard
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So, to answer a bunch of people in no particular order:
I'm currently looking at 80-90mm max width skis. Seems like most of the shinest new skis are all much fatter than that, but I've seen depressingly little fluffy powder in my life, and as I don't expect to be going much further afield than the Alps for a few years yet getting great big floaty skis seems a bit like following a fashion trend than making a technical choice. Plus, I can see it being somewhat tiring to be trying to follow in someone else's skin tracks with a ski that's 2cm wider.
I've tried to read up on some of Movement's new skis, but half of the damn things are impossible to search before because of their similarity in name to non-ski related tedium. Its an argument in favour of weird or boringly technical names
Its good to know that 3-4+kg skis won't necessarily end up being a horrible drag. I'm all in favour of ultralight gear (my usual tent weighs under a kilo!) but only to the extent that it doesn't compromise having a good trip (its still a two skin tent). If I'm going to be hauling stuff up a mountain, I demand some payback on the way down
Arno wrote: |
finding rental Dynafit setups is more difficult but if you can do it anywhere, Chamonix would be the place. Suggest you try places like Snell, Coquoz, Sports Alpins and Sanglard |
Cheers for that; I'll concentrate my search a little.
edits for spelling and formatting
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 16-09-11 12:00; edited 2 times in total
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Serriadh, IMHO you have your thinking the wrong way around, any ski is going to be fine in champagne powder that us Euro skiers may find once or twice in a lifetime.
Fatter skis work better in typical euro off piste conditions, corn, slush, breakable crust etc etc
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, +1
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