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Insurance - Carte Neige (France)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jonpim mentioned this in another thread. Below I've given the broad outlines/options. You can pay the daily supplement for carte neige cover, but there is another possibility worth considering for regular visitors to the French slopes.

At the start of the season you can buy an annual carte neige. However you need to be a member of a French club (just for form, doesn't bring any particular benefits in itself). The following applied to the costs for the 2003/2004 season via the Les Arcs club. There are two formats:

Adult carte neige A (39 euros p.a.) : Civil liability, legal defence and appeal. Rescue, search and recovery costs, reimbursement of medical expenses.

Adult carte neige B (46 euros p.a.) : All the above, plus: Accidental breakage and/or loss of personnel ski equipment. Help in the form of transport to a medical centre, return to the place of stay, child care and a replacement driver.

Child carte neige B: 37 euros p.a.

Child carte neige A: 30 euros p.a.

Family carte neige: 151 euros p.a. (family 4+ people)

There are also 'racer' tarifs applicable if you're a competitor (77 euros adult, 55 euros child p.a.)

Other advantages? Not a whole lot, but you get discounts on rentals from any Sport 2000 shop, Europcar hire, if you buy Salomon bindings you can get part of the carte neige reimbursed, discounted VVF Vacances holidays, special offers on the www.sportreflex.com site, and lastly automatic entry in the annual French Federation prize draws (we've never won a thing!).

PS Anyone with a gold credit card, there is often winter sports cover included if you pay for your lift pass with it.

PPS If you're a snowboarder there is an alternative to the carte neige from the AFS (Association Française de Snowboard)... same advantages as the carte neige, but with some discounts on lift passes....
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Bear in mind if you pay the daily insurance supplement 'Carré Neige' when buying your lift pass - at 2.50 euros for the 2003/2004 season (2 euros for a child) - you get the above cover as well, so anyone skiing in France for just a couple of weeks each year would be no better off with the annual Carte Neige....
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TKS PG - this is not widely enough known and the 2.5 Euros on top of a lift pass is peanuts and could save you a packet if you have a bad accident. I suspect many insurances bought along with package tours ex UK are only barely adequate and a 'top-up' almost free seems eminently good sense. Cool
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Note: repatriation, air ambulance to country of residence etc, is not included!
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Thanks PG, you saved this lot from my appalling translation skills, I really can’t stress enough the need for this when you buy your lift pass. If anyone actually read their travel insurance policy (even the bits that need 3.0+ reading glasses) they’d find out why the weasels spend so much money employing linguists to deny the ‘tort’ in tautological policy documents! On a ski slope, it’s difficult to be over insured.
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Hopefully PG I'll get back on the usual BA flight - under my own steam. And being poured up the steps of the plane is the only way to travel. IMHO Cool
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PG wrote:
Note: repatriation, air ambulance to country of residence etc, is not included!


Which is why of course one should have good ski insurance as well, of course those with really good insurance don't need the carte neige but it's probably worth taking anyway
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PG, You were overcharged Very Happy Our Carte Neige was only 38 euros in the Grand Massif. That's the deal when you get the season pass for the Grand Massif. It's advertised on in the telecabine I notice and it's seems to suggest you can just buy it standalone.

The discounts you mention weren't mentioned in any of the paperwork I saw with ours but we do get various discounts just with the season passes. I also had some idea that Carte Neige was no longer a single product but offered by different providers but I'm not sure.

As for it being a good deal for UK people as someone else suggests, I'm not so sure. I suspect the reason it's cheap is that it's offering a fairly basic cover to supplement the statutory insurance that we (as Europeans) carry.The insurance you'd buy with Crystal etc will cover travel and other things, whereas Carte/Carre Neige only really covers time on the slope.

Some of the annual policies in the UK would be a better deal for UK based skiers I'm sure.
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D G Orf wrote:
PG wrote:
Note: repatriation, air ambulance to country of residence etc, is not included!


Which is why of course one should have good ski insurance as well, of course those with really good insurance don't need the carte neige but it's probably worth taking anyway


Exactly, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Most Europeans are obliged to have various insurances which cost the earth (at least in Germany and Switzerland they do).
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ise, Those are the rates for those who don't obtain season passes... other special deals are available, but that depends on where you live, whether you get the season pass, etc. I just stuck to the simple formula (as advertised by the FFS) to make it more understandable.

Clearly some UK policies are all-inclusive, not least the gold card all-year-round cover you get from some credit cards which is pretty good, as I mentioned.

The advantage costwise is for those making several trips to France in one season. If you have medical repatriation cover, the annual carte neige is the perfect complement, far cheaper than many UK companies offer.
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ise wrote:
PG, You were overcharged Very Happy Our Carte Neige was only 38 euros in the Grand Massif.


It varies depending on the ski club that is issuing the card

Quote:
As for it being a good deal for UK people as someone else suggests, I'm not so sure. I suspect the reason it's cheap is that it's offering a fairly basic cover to supplement the statutory insurance that we (as Europeans) carry.


Exactly, the medical cover is not sufficient for people with only E111.

It does offer repatriation to your domicile if you are an EU resident.
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PG wrote:
ise, Those are the rates for those who don't obtain season passes... other special deals are available, but that depends on where you live, whether you get the season pass, etc. I just stuck to the simple formula (as advertised by the FFS) to make it more understandable.


I'm at least 90% sure the poster in the lift station in the Grand Massif just advertises it at 38euro no other conditions apply but it's all a bit vague on the paperwork.

Do you know if it all different companies offering it now? And, what I can't work out from the papers with ours is the geographical coverage, it beggars belief but the T & C's with our mention no limit Very Happy
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sherman-maeir, Are you sure? I scanned the small print but couldn't find any mention of that at all. Do you have a reference?

Cos surely, if it repatriates EU residents, it would be sufficient cover for E 111 holders? That after all is the only thing that I thought was missing from the original cover details I provided.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
PG wrote:
sherman-maeir, Are you sure? I scanned the small print but couldn't find any mention of that at all. Do you have a reference?

Cos surely, if it repatriates EU residents, it would be sufficient cover for E 111 holders? That after all is the only thing that I thought was missing from the original cover details I provided.


Ours does not repatriate either, either for EU residents or for non-EU, apparently. The paperwork provided is quite appalling though.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ise, That rate you mentioned, was it for the carte 'A' or 'B'?
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Poster: A snowHead
PG, don't know without looking at the papers which are over at the flat I think. My Swiss insurances cover me here so I leave all that stuff in France.
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PG, does the insurance include off-piste skiing? Or do you need to drag yourself onto the piste?

Beware of Travel Agency / Tour operator insurance - the policay I once had with Crystal did not cover me for my hire skis, even though I booked the ski hire at the same time as the insurance! I found this out to my cost when the skis broke - I always take out the shop insurance now if I hire skies (normally 1 or 2 euros).

I had an acident last season which was eventually covered by my 'top class' insurance - however they refused to get a driver to take my car from Verbier to Grenoble (they did offer me a taxi, but I couldn't leave my car for months and couldn't drive). I contacted my bank card insurance (luckily I had a gold card) and they arranged a driver within 24 hours and never even asked if I'd paid for my holiday with my card (I hadn't)! I was intending to cancel the card due to the cost - I'll be keeping it now!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Red Dave, Yes, they'll pick up the pieces off-piste.

Back to sherman-maeir's point, he's quite correct, assuming the address on your carte neige is in the UK for example, if necessary they will return you to a hospital near to that domicile. This applies to all EU states, plus Andorra, Monaco and Switzerland. (There's some sub-clause about non-EU state repatriation as well on production of a return ticket from the country in question, but it's a bit vague)

So the bottom line is the carte neige seems to me to cover most requirements, even for a non-French resident - assuming he/she has indicated the correct home address on the application.

I'm looking into whether the carte neige covers you on visits to any other countries. It is underwritten by Mondial Assisitance by the way.
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Without the papers I think Mondial sounds familar. I may have blown the repatriation though, I'm pretty sure my address on it would be our French one Very Happy
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PG, thanks. I may well be changing my insuance next season then...
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That's quite interesting PG certainly seems a cheap ski insurace substitute Shocked
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Red Dave, Bear in mind that the repatriation clause stops if you spend more than 31 days in a resort during a trip! (Just been browsing the small print again...) So may not be suitable for you after all.

I've just emailed the underwriters, Mondial Assistance, asking them for full terms and conditions IN ENGLISH. As soon as (if) I get a reply, I'll post it in full. It's no good adding bits and pieces to a forum, ok for a general idea, but.....
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Should have realised.... as usual David of pistehors.com has a succinct and infrmative article on this very topic....

http://www.pistehors.com/articles/avalanche/insurance.htm
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PG wrote:

So the bottom line is the carte neige seems to me to cover most requirements, even for a non-French resident - assuming he/she has indicated the correct home address on the application.


I don't have this year's carte neige as I book with my new premium credit card which covers me. But last year it did cover off-piste and a range of sports - there are exclusions I think for motorised sports and air sports.

The thing that worries me is the medical cover. E111 only covers the same as the French National Health Service scheme. That is only 75% of medical bills. Carte Neige offers around 3000 Euros cover on top but with hospital time running at around 1000 euros per day without operations I would be concerned about the level of medical cover.

A snowboarder mate had a spill at les Arcs and a painkilling injection in his butt cost him nearly 100 euros and an X-ray was about double that. The Carte Neige cover seems to be for incidental costs not covered by the French Health Service and the additional private insurance French people have. At least that's my own interpretation.

Don't know if anyone has any thoughts or better information on all this. I got the E111 info off the government website, cover differs in other countries. 100% in Russia for example.

Carte Neige

E111 UK Gov
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I've asked for the details in English, but your concern over the medical expenses is very relevant... from the 'Pistehors' comments :

"It can be seen that the French policies are much less expensive than UK policies because most French residents have additional private medical insurance, the medical cover will not be sufficient for EU citizens carrying an E111 certificate. The medical cover is really aimed at incidental non-recoverable expenses, such as a pain killing or anti-inflammatory injections administered by a doctor in resort. The UK policies offer a much higher level of compensation but at a significant extra cost."

3,000 euros is clearly not enough on its own for long-term hospital stays. That said, emergency hospital stays are sometimes covered to 100% - I've had experience of this. It's a complicated situation, and one that needs clarifying. I'll ask additional questions of Mondial Assistance.
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Think I'll still be sticking to my snowcard insurance somehow
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PG wrote:
I've asked for the details in English, but your concern over the medical expenses is very relevant... from the 'Pistehors' comments :

"It can be seen that the French policies are much less expensive than UK policies because most French residents have additional private medical insurance, the medical cover will not be sufficient for EU citizens carrying an E111 certificate. The medical cover is really aimed at incidental non-recoverable expenses, such as a pain killing or anti-inflammatory injections administered by a doctor in resort. The UK policies offer a much higher level of compensation but at a significant extra cost."

3,000 euros is clearly not enough on its own for long-term hospital stays. That said, emergency hospital stays are sometimes covered to 100% - I've had experience of this. It's a complicated situation, and one that needs clarifying. I'll ask additional questions of Mondial Assistance.


Is there an echo in here ? Very Happy

That's what I already said, I'd be really dubious this was the right insurance for a trip for most UK people, it's no use whatsover for claiming for ski hire when the airline route your skis to the Canary Islands or loose them altogether Very Happy
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ise, Would have to read the small print on loss of ski equipment. But the accident cover is unclear - some years ago someone I knew was hospitalised for a month in intensive care after a road accident in France, before being taken by air ambulance, still unconscious, back to the UK. She only had an E111. But because it was an accident/emergency treatment, it was covered 100%. (We did have to fork out for the air ambulance however, we were young and naive, had no insurance cover at all for travel abroad).
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You know it makes sense.
You can get repatriation cover here in Switzerland from these guys http://www.air-glaciers.ch/

It's a minefield really, I have health from Progress/Helsana, accident from Alpina both provided by my employer. Mrs Ise has Swiss health from Intras and German based health including some accident cover from her German employer. Then we've a German travel policy which probably no longer covers me and the Carte Neige. I also assume despite being Swiss resident I'm covered by E111 while Mrs must be having joint German/Swiss resident status and a UK passport.

Understanding the overlaps and gaps in the coverage is hard rolling eyes
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Given your situation ise I'm not surprised, I'm also not sure if the E111 covers you or not I think not unless you would class yourself as "ordinarily in residence in the UK" Also you must get a new E111 form when you change address, I have a suspicion however that there may be some other form that you should have instead, isn't life complicated snowHead
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[quote="PG"]Red Dave, Bear in mind that the repatriation clause stops if you spend more than 31 days in a resort during a trip! (Just been browsing the small print again...) So may not be suitable for you after all.

PG I wish I could spend 31 days in one trip! As I have a registered address in France I assume each seperate drive up the mountain will be considered a different trip, so that wouldn't be a problem. Though I'll have to check the small print carefully, especially for trips outside France. I've also got French medical insurance through work.

I need to check my card insurance more carefully too - so many options!
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Red Dave, Right, I was assuming your French address was temporary - no reason to of course! - and that repatriation would be to a UK address. Same situation as me then, and I reckon carte neige is ideal - but I do have a mutuelle top-up insurance. Without that I'm not so sure carte neige is enough.

All this depends on whether an accident of this sort is covered 100% or not in a French hospital, as discussed above (ref road accident). It really is complicated. Something the likes of this forum and the knowledge of regulars here should be able to make clear, in due course.
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PG, yes I have a mutelle too so I will defintely investigate this more next season, assuming I'm still here. I'm hoping my French address will not be too temporary, however one never knows with the vagaries of corporate policy...
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sherman-maeir,
Quote:
(ref Les Arcs spill) a painkilling injection in his butt cost him nearly 100 euros and an X-ray was about double that.

Surely not! I had an x-ray a couple of days ago here in Bourg St Maurice and it was precisely 34.02 euros. A pain-killing injection would be no more than 20 euros. I can't believe it could cost that much, unless there's a huge premium for emergency treatment at the BSM hospital!
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He might have had tourist painted on his forehead, that's usually all the excuse required to be fleeced
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Nah... state functionaries over here haven't got that much imagination. Now if they were on a percentage, that'd be another matter....
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PG wrote:

Surely not! I had an x-ray a couple of days ago here in Bourg St Maurice and it was precisely 34.02 euros. A pain-killing injection would be no more than 20 euros. I can't believe it could cost that much, unless there's a huge premium for emergency treatment at the BSM hospital!


I don't have the exact details but he had to see a doctor in the resort to get a prescription, go to the pharmacy himself to buy the painkiller then go back to the doctor who then sent him to a nurse to have the injection. Everytime he seemed to have to part with money but the pharmacy was the real expense. What a crazy system? Why can't the docs just have painkillers in their kit bag?
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sherman-maeir, For info a doctor's fixed charge (at his surgery) is 20 euros. 30 euros if he comes to your home. A nurse, well I don't know how much a visit is to their premises, but to have one visit your home to take a blood sample is under 5 euros! (Had one visiting my aged parents day in day out, way out in the sticks, felt really guilty when she kept insisting on giving us change from 5 euros). The cost of the pain killer depends on the nature of the drug, but from the pharmacy you'd only pay for the product, nothing extra.

Honest, you can't beat the system over here, it's leagues ahead of the UK's NHS.
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PG is right - the sevice here is excellent. I had to have a lot of physio last year for a dislocated shoulder. As I was referred by a doctor the price was really quite silly (low) for the amount and quality of treatment I had (and I could claim that back)!

I was totally shocked when I phoned the doctor to make an appointment and she said 'can you come this afternoon'.

The cost of an overnight stay in hospital in Switzerland was rather expensive (about 3,500 CHF), but again the care and facilties were great; and I got the money back eventually on my insurance.
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Red Dave, My mum also had daily physio visits at home, incredibly silly cost (all reimbursed), for the best part of a year. Can you imagine asking the NHS to do that for an 80 year old?
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