 Poster: A snowHead
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“Where to ski and snowboard” by Gill and Watts and the Which books publication “ The Good skiing and snowboarding guide” are the two guides available to the skiing public. As they seem to contradict each other with some of the information for instance suitability of a resort for a particular grade of skier, snow reliability and so on which one of these two guides provides the most accurate information?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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neither, you'd be way better off asking here, even at worst the advice is likely to be better here.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The information provided here will be more up to date than these 2 books. And it won't cost you. You may spark off some debate, but at least you will get passionate viewpoints, free of any influence-publishers or otherwise. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm with ise, on this, both publications consistantly publish misleading information, e.g they may say that a resort has a poor (in depth) snowfall record because its low but fail to say that it does not need much snow for good skiing
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Louis, the last time I looked at the two guides - about a year ago - 'Where to Ski and Snowboard' surprised me with its comprehensiveness and detail. The authors are very knowledgeable. The 'Good Skiing Guide' seems to have lost a bit of direction and coverage, though it's still an impressive piece of work.
If you want a third opinion on something, Time Out brought out a skiing guide (only covering European resorts) last autumn, which is quite good too.
The search facility on this site could deliver a lot of archived information for you. Look at the top left of the screen for User Facilities and the drop-down menu.
Other sites with excellent resort info. include www.goski.com and www.ifyouski.com
As above, if you've any specific questions, fire away.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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D G Orf, I agree with ise, too. Must be a 1st 
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Having skiied with one of the editors of "Where to BLAG and FREELOAD" I have no interest in buying the book, apart from for comedy value.
I'd agree with the other posters, but add that if you are going to North America, you can ask on www.epicski.com , and if you're off to Australia, www.ski.com.au .
The two big things that you get on forums, that you don't get in the books are:
Up to date information
and
NAMES.
You'll get names of ski instructors, or of people who might be there the same time as you, who will show you the mountains.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have to agree with all the comments above, using this forum, appears to be one of the best sources of info on resorts, (and unbiased in most cases)
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Louis, the last time I looked at the two guides - about a year ago - 'Where to Ski and Snowboard' surprised me with its comprehensiveness and detail. The authors are very knowledgeable. The 'Good Skiing Guide' seems to have lost a bit of direction and coverage, though it's still an impressive piece of work.
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Agree absolutely. I have several Good Ski Guides from the early '90s . They used to give free copies to people who supplied reports. However, the layout and text of 'Where to Ski' is far better. 'The Good Ski Guide' is living on past work.
I just get the latest copy out of the public library and keep renewing it .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Louis, I haven't looked at either book in a while. I tend to ask around here and elsewhere, and look for info on the web. I would say that books are useful to give you a comprehensive general overview though, even if you can't believe everything you read in them. I can get recommendations and very specific details of places, services and people in good faith here, based upon the experiences of the individuals who post, but like the info in the books, I know it is opinion and not necessarily representative.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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slikedges,
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I can get recommendations and very specific details of places, services and people in good faith here, based upon the experiences of the individuals who post, but like the info in the books, I know it is opinion and not necessarily representative
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And anyone posting drivel here will be dealt with accordingly-unlike the books 
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Thanks, seems that i need to buy something else to read on the train!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Louis, pick up a bunch of ski brochures for free from your local travel agent to read on the train, then having selected some resorts come here to ask for reviews 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowbunny, yeah, the books can count themselves lucky in only getting burnt 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think it's a justifiably popular book, thoroughly researched. Yes, the authors - Dave Watts, Chris Gill - go on freebies (few regular ski writers don't) but their accumulated wisdom is very substantial, so they're capable of making very competent relative judgements. In an ideal world all ski resort research would be financed independently, but it's an unrealistic prospect, given the economics of book publishing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I bought the Time Out publication DG refers to. I thought it pretty useless for anyone but those virtual beginners needing only to chose from a limited number of the 'popular' resorts, from rather basic information.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There are substantial differences in prices, though:
Time Out Skiing and Snowboarding in Europe: £8.99
Good Skiing and Snowboarding Guide: £15.99
Where to Ski and Snowboard: £16.99
[prices quoted from Amazon]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snowheads advice ........... Free
[Price quoted by moderator]
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brian
brian
Guest
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| srobbo wrote: |
| (and unbiased in most cases) |
Except for the usual suspects
DG Orf @ Wengen tourist board
David Traxvax@ La Ros tourist board
easiski @ L2A tourist board
Not that they'll give you a bum steer, mind. They're all passionate advocates of their chosen hills !
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brian, you forgot PG
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D G Orf, I was quite chuffed at being left out actually! I have plugged quite a number of resorts, knocked LA if appropriate, and reported cr@p conditions there when they occur 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Louis, going back to your original query I'd be surprised if there are major differences between the guides on issues of snow reliability and skier-suitability etc. It would be interesting if you'd point to specific examples and we should be able to resolve which book is right, from a discussion in this community. Both books are edited by very experienced well-travelled journalists, and they've been through umpteen editions (apart from Time Out) so I'd trust a high percentage of the information.
I reckon Where to Ski is a very sound investment at £16.99, given what you're going to spend on skiing. Of course, issues like snow-reliability and terrain don't particularly concern up-to-date (i.e. changeable) situations, so the book has long-term reference value.
When and where, roughly, are you thinking of skiing?
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I have just looked at the online version mentioned in an earlier post. I looked at French resorts menu, amongst the drop down options was Copper Mountain  Last time I skied Copper Mountain it was in Colorado. Perhaps it's moved continents.
I then tried the Andorra listings. For Pas de la Casa the entry consisted of how the writers always drive through it because they don't stay there. In other words, their information is 2nd/3rd hand. The Andorra listing was also out of date because no mention was made of the Vallnord, Ordino/Arcalis areas, or the Porte Puymorens plans. Not much effort seems to have gone into accuracy. I would not pay for this book.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowbunny, I thought your assertion surprising, so went to the website myself:
http://www.wtss.co.uk/jsp/index.jsp
What I think you may have done was select 'France' but not click 'Go'.
If you don't click Go you get the entire resorts database of all countries (which is why Copper Mountain is there).
If you click Go you get French resorts only.
Can't comment on your claims re. Andorra. Anyone?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, I did go through to "France", I think it's a software prob. Just been back and it's ok. Not very inspiring though. Andorra-been there, I wonder if these 2 actually have, or are just relying on reading TO brochures 
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Snowmole is a new publication that concentrates on specific resorts (I think Verbier, Zermatt, Courchevel, Meribel, Val D'Isere, Les Arcs, La Plagne, Chamonix) and is much more detailed and accurate than any of the bigger books - it has 1 small pocket sized book per resort, and is full of details that simply cannot make it into Where To Ski and the like.
Ideal to take a copy with you if you are going to one of the resorts as they cover everything from all the restaurants and bars, lift times, estimated lift queue times, and a reworked piste map that tells you how to get from A-B in a way that traditional piste maps don't really manage.
Well worth looking into - http://www.snowmole.com
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm surprised by some of the negative comments about the books on here - people have to remember that the books were basically designed to help holiday skiers who have 1-2 weeks per year decide if the tour-op brochures are telling the truth, when comparing the relatively limited number of resorts that the big tour-ops cover. On that basis I think the books do a very good job. One point I would agree with is that the books miss out hundreds of small resorts which like anywhere can provide fantastic skiing in the right conditions, and I've been to a few such places and loved them.
I take DGO's point about marking low resorts (Wengen) as unreliable for snow being a bit simplistic, and I've always found good conditions even in low Austrian resorts but that's partly because I've chosen the time of year with care. If you assume that the majority of the books target audience go at New Year or Easter then that rating is probably fair - you are better off going to Val d'Isere, Tignes or Zermatt etc.
You can't really argue that the books are a waste of time compared to the web, either. You will find the same resorts mentioned here all the time, with everyone having their favourites. The difference between most of us and the book editors is that the editors have simply skied more places, so are in a better position to compare. Keen skiers will always do their own research on the web, from brochures, guide books, friends etc but I still think the books are a good place to start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I agree competely. It's easy to use this platform to slag things off comprehensively - from a standpoint of anonymity ...
... but we're dealing with real books, written and edited by named people, who have livelihoods tied up with them. They are fully accountable for their work, because they've put their names to it.
Fair comment is important. Fair criticism is more than necessary.
It helps to have read the books, and if there are specific errors we can look at them.
Blanket trashing of these works helps no one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think the publications mentioned are pretty good, and pretty accurate for the most part. Given the constraints the authors are under (i.e. they can't possibly get to every resort every year and therefore rely on readers' reports) they do a good job.
As far as contradicting each other: they agree on most things and if they were identical there would be no point in publishing both, opinion will always differ from one person to the next:-
If you want conflicting advice on a resort you are almost certain to get it by posting an enquiry on Snowheads! I think this is an excellent forum, but certain Snowheads do seem to doggedly defend/recommend their favorite resort regardless of its actual suitability, and/or have a pet-hate that they can't let go of.
In my own reading/skiing experience, in order of usefulness:
Reuters Where to Ski & 'board;
Which? The Good Skiing & 'boarding Guide;
Time Out Guide;
The Good Ski Guide;
then large gap, then
Total guesswork;
then another large gap, then
Tour operator brochures!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plake, well said.
I'm certainly not advocating the web over the books as such. They each have a different role. I have old editions of the Which? Good Skiing Guide which I still use to occasionally look up places I know little about but don't hope to glean more than general and basic info from them. I know enough about my skiing requirements to critically extract most of what I need off the web now but if I was less experienced would certainly own up-to-date books and use them with quite a degree of confidence. Web resources and particularly individual experience and opinion whilst often very useful, can be at least as inaccurate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would not give much creedence to Tour Operators resort descriptions. I particularly like the way they describe the attractions of beginner resorts for advanced skiers. A positive spin at all times.
As regards web advice, it can be good - but it can also be a waste of time of the 'Vail sucks' / 'Vail rocks' variety.
The books will go into sufficient detail to give you a broad picture of a resort. Someone who is not familiar with the country/resort can then supplement that with more update web info and opinion.
A good old book nobody mentioned was 'We learnt to ski'. It is not resort specific and it is very dated; but it was a useful way for people to get answers to many ski questions. It is quite easy to forget, if you have been skiing for a while, all the questions you might want answered.
I think the Eurocentric books are far better than the American equivalent, which I bought for detail after borrowing a copy from someone.
Most travel books have their limtations. Lonely Planet and Rough guide are a bit earnest and hippy. Fodors is a CIA front operation full of wonderful stereotypes about the countries they cover.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
A good old book nobody mentioned was 'We learnt to ski'.
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I agree. Well worth searching out a secondhand copy.
I believe the three Sunday Times writers who produced it fell out over the shared copyright, which is why it eventually disappeared. Still a very relevant concept.
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I am with the 'where to s&s' brigade.
I first started skiing shortly before the good skiing guide was published and when it came out I found it to be about one of the most useful travel books I had come accross. The resort information was factually accurate, informative and useful. The authors opinions I generally found to be reliable.
I still use some of the old guides as; a) I dont think anything has replaced the utility of the maps in them for identifying which direction the terrain lies v. important late season or roughly what size the ski area is. b) Adam Ruck was about the only ski journalist who could craft a sentence that makes one want to read it whatever the information. He could even make a review of Val d'Isere look fresh.
Where to ski and snowboard has as far as I can seen not fully replaced this utility but the information is generally reliable and accurate as well as covering a very large number of areas, the information is all out there on the web but for a quick comparative read I still find the book format easy to read and very handy. Personally I use it as a starting point before trying to augment the information from other sources such as the excellent 's
I would not worry to much about a bit of contradictory advice on the suitability of a resort for a certain grade of skier. It is often a matter of where one puts ones emphasis in trying to aggregate the information that may or may not make a resort suitable for beginners, intermediates etc. There are very few resorts which do not have a reasonable ski school and at least some beginner and intermediate slopes. If you can get hold of an old copy of the good skiing guide (pre 1990's) their explanations as to the type of resort that suits the various skiers and why they have chosen them has never been bettered.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 3-08-05 17:26; edited 1 time in total
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brian
brian
Guest
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| T Bar wrote: |
I still use some of the old guides as; a) I dont think anything has replaced the utility of the maps in them for identifying which direction the terrain lies |
Speaking of which, is there anywhere you can get a decent contour map online for the French alps ?
Similar to the Swiss GIS maps on their tourist board site ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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brian, what scale?
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The books are good to read thou specailly if you are bored waiting at an airport or train !
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FAQ
To save you lot giving me a flaming I love my 'Where to Ski and Snowboard' and regularly look through it trying to decide where to go next. 
