 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey all
I am really sorry for posting such a beginner question. It's just that I've been so overwhelmed with information and advice (from those that don't know anything) that I thought I would ask those that actually do and know skiing. I did look briefly for a similar question but couldn't find anything so please point me in the right direction if this has been posted before.
Three of us (me, my wife and a friend) are interested in a ski holiday in Europe this season and don't know where to go. We come from South Africa and so have no idea on good places, etc. I was hoping that someone could give an idea based on the following 3 requirements.
1. I would class myself as intermediate with the other 2 being beginners. So ultimately, we are looking for places that have quite a few runs aimed at that.
2. Cost. Obviously no one wants to spend more money than needed, but also coming from SA, the exchange rate hurts a lot and so can't afford to go all out. That said, we are not looking for the cheapest possible holiday. We want to stay in a place that has decent rooms and is close to the slopes (and shops/bars/etc. if possible). We are over the age of staying in hostels. We enjoy a quite place to relax when we want. We don't need the hip and happening places. As long as the place is decent and there are things to do. We were also thinking of the end of Jan. I see that beginning Jan or Mar is cheaper but am worried about conditions in Mar and early Jan would be hard with work.
3. Good snow. I know there are cheap places like Bulgaria, but have read too many reports that the slope conditions weren't great. We are looking at a guaranteed good snow place. Not a guaranteed to have one congested slope with everyone bumping into each other 
With that in mind, we were thinking of the French alps. It seems (according to thompsonski) that that is going to be the cheapest decent option. Can anyone comment on that?
Thanks in advance for any help!
CheerZ
Alan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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AlanB1976, plenty of resorts, in France as well as other countries, will give you good value for money depending on what you're looking for. What type of accommodation do you want (hotel, chalet, self-catering)? What travel arrangements (a packaged holiday or booking airport-resort transfers yourself)? Will you want ski school? Is a pretty village or great mountain scenery very high or your priority list?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AlanB1976, welcome to SnowHeads.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've taken some of my friends to the 3 Valleys (France) for the last two years (combination of intermediates and beginners), and they have all taken to the variety of runs really well. Big ski area as well, for a good price.
That might be what you are looking for.
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Thanks for the quick response. A mark of a fantastic user based forum 
To answer the questions...
What type of accommodation do you want (hotel, chalet, self-catering)?
We don't mind as long as we are not sharing rooms/vacilities with strangers. We would need 1 double room and either another single room or 'area' where the friend can sleep. We don't mind whether it is hotel room or chalet. We also not fussed on what is included. We just got to take into account the additional costs when having to eat out, etc. To be honest, I prefer not having dinner included as it gives us opportunity to try local places out. We definitely don't want a place that is the party area. I like to be able to retreat to the quite when I've had enough (call it age )
What travel arrangements (a packaged holiday or booking airport-resort transfers yourself)?
With being so new, we would most likely get a package. We don't know what to plan for yet. I've been working off thompsonski.co.uk at the moment.
Will you want ski school?
Yes, for my wife and friend. I don't need the resort to provide that. If needed, I'll contact local places and make a booking before hand.
Is a pretty village or great mountain scenery very high or your priority list?
I think they are somewhat high. Since it will be our first decent ski holiday, having a nice village and good scenery would be nice, but we don't need to be in the best place in the world. I'm sure many places have a nice little village associated where we can get some food and have a couple of drinks overlooking the mountains. We also don't need our accommodation to have the best view (would be good if it came with one). We can always take a walk to a nice place.
Which airports are easy/cheap to fly to from SA?
We will actually be leaving from Bristol. My wife and I have moved there recently and the friend is coming for a visit.
I never would have thought France to be more expensive than Austria (when it comes to ski locations). I always thought that Aus/Swiss were the sought after locations. I was basing my assumption on a search at thompsonski for what they listed the cheapest place for those dates (not to stay in but get an idea of how cheap each place can get). Austria showed £424 and France showed £359 for 7 days, leaving at the end of Jan. I suppose that price difference could also have been due to the reason that EasyJet fly to France from there, but the Austria trip was marked to fly with Thompsons.
I will give the 3 Valleys a look at. Where did you stay there?
Is Austria cheaper on food/drink as well? I saw that the ski hire / lift pass was more expensive than France. Maybe that was just that location.
ARRRGGGG...... so much to take into consideration......
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| AlanB1976 wrote: |
| Is Austria cheaper on food/drink as well? I saw that the ski hire / lift pass was more expensive than France. Maybe that was just that location. |
In my experience costs such as accommodation and lift passes are not too dissimilar if you compare like with like across different countries (i.e., big resorts will have big resort prices, smaller resorts will have smaller resort prices). But food and drink, especially in mountain restaurants does seem noticeably cheaper in Austria and Italy than in France (although you're always going to be able to hunt around to find exceptions to that generalisation).
For your party with two beginners in it I'd recommend that quality of ski school/instructor comes high up your list of priorities. For beginners the quality of their ski school experience scan make or break a holiday. My preference is usually for one of the British-run ski schools, although they are normally in the big French resorts and you're therefore in to paying big resort prices.
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I've taught a few South Africans in Saalbach (Austria), and there do often seem to be quite a few South Africans around (more so than other resorts I've been in, not sure why). It fits all your requirements - good, extensive intermediate skiing, good ski schools, cheap food and beer. Friendly cosy village. Close to Salzburg airport. Late January would be be fine, but March (particularly early) is the best month to ski in Austria.
BTW, France is generally considered more expensive than Austria and Italy (but not because it's better).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did a Thompsonski search for Saalbach and the cheapest was over £800 each. The search I did when I was looking at France displayed many results in the £400 range, although they were self catering. But even then, adding £40 per day just for some food would still make it over £100 cheaper each. Do you think those are just bad resorts? I would really prefer to go to Austria, but justifying that to the wife and friend would be hard.
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Hmmm... doubt it's 'cos they're bad resorts, but where were the French options (and did you search for same level of package/date/accom/travel)?
Maybe search somewhere else than Thompson too?
Otherwise, I'd be taking the £400 option!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It was for the same dates and departure point. The flight was with EasyJet which makes it a bit cheaper (Austria was with Thompson branded flight). The accommodation was self catering apartment which is fine. I don't mind not having someone wait on me hand and foot. There was also a place that offered free lift passes and it was listed as 'close to the slopes' which most others weren't (and 10min from shops). It was called 'Chamrousse apts.' in Chamrousse , France. That worked out at £2100 for 3 people including travel/accom/equip/passes/insurance/ski lessons. That's not bad! I am a firm believer of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" which is making me scared. I'm worried that it is a poo-poo-hole and that is why it is so cheap.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AlanB1976, There are several threads on this website on trip reports for Chamrousse.
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great. I'll go have a look at them. Thanks
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
early March is pretty ultra reliable
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it's also very crowded in France, as it's peak French school holiday time - I wouldn't do France before 13 March, but that week should be good, with longer days than January.
Pretty villages and "guaranteed snow" don't really go together, as pretty villages (ie the genuine historical ones, not places built in Disney Alpine style) were developed lower in the valleys. Of course, there are plenty of lovely villages where you can access high skiing (via lifts, and sometimes taking buses to the lifts) but it's not quite the same thing as staying right in amongst the snow.
Eating and drinking on the mountain seems to be usefully cheaper in Austria (though ski hire can be absurdly expensive in some places, eating up some or all of the savings, depending on how much beer you get down you). Cheap, basic, convenient apartments are probably cheaper and are certainly much more plentiful in France (but basic can be pretty basic...... you'll get what you pay for, right up to ridiculously luxurious private chalets).
Lift passes seem similar from country to country, but more expensive in the big, well known resorts (Three Valleys, St Anton) than in the smaller ones.
In a catered chalet you have your own bedrooms, and sometimes en suite bathrooms (depending on price you pay) but eat together with other chalet guests. It can be a very pleasant way of holidaying, and because they provide big "chalet teas" when the lifts close (unlimited teas, coffees, bread and jam, cakes etc) and wine with meals you do spend a lot less out on the mountain.
"Apres ski" is mostly much more subdued in France - some nice restaurants, cosy bars, but none of the "oompah oompah dancing on the tables" stuff which makes some big name Austrian resorts such a compelling destination for some people.
Generally, if you want to avoid "party land", I'd say go to any resort in the Alps which doesn't figure strongly in the British tour operators portfolios.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another thought - I know quite a few South Africans including some skiers. On the whole I find South Africans are pretty good at getting things done for themselves, rather than expecting to be handed things on a plate. I wouldn't have thought you'd have any problem organising your own holiday. If you decide to rent an apartment (wherever....) that would probably be the best approach. When you rent an apartment privately, you pay for the apartment. With a tour operator there are usually significant "under occupancy" charges incurred unless you cram in what most people would consider to be too many people.
Flights are easy, so are hire cars.
The "headline cost" of a ski holiday in a brochure is usually going to be less than 50% of what you will spend - certainly a lot less than 50% if you stay in an apartment and eat out much. Don't spend too much time wondering about a £50 or £100 difference in brochure prices. cost of ski passes, eating out, lessons - will ultimately be more important.
I'd agree with the comment above about the quality of lessons. Go to a ski school which will guarantee you are in a group of no more than 6. It's worth spending a bit more on the lessons - much more important than the price of a beer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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AlanB1976, most Austrian resorts and hotels offer "Pauschal" deals (packages to thee and me) which include the ski pass (usually a 6-day one). If you are flying from Bristol, you can pretty easily organise all the bits yourself and do it cheaper than the TOs. There is a wealth of knowledge here and plenty of people who actually live in these areas that can help you out.
For example I often stay in a 5-star half board hotel in March for about 900 Euros for the week. That includes my ski pass if I needed it but I have a season card for a huge area instead that only costs me about 550 Euros for 5 months or longer. If you do not want to be so upmarket, I also stay in another 3 star place at weekends where it only costs me 51 Euros a night half board. If you do not have any gear to schlepp around, just luggage you can quite easily use public transport to get from the airport to wherever you choose. I pay a supplement most years as I am on my own, doubles work out cheaper and usually a double and a single even themselves out.
March in Austria, Italy and Switzerland will not be very busy as the Half Term rushes are and truly over. In the last decade or so some of the best snowfalls have come in March, especially over here in the Eastern Alps. You have long days and it is no so bone-chillingly cold. And believe me you will feel it too, I flew back from the Western Cape at the beginning of March this year which was not so cold as usual, but I shivered for about a week having left behind temperatures in the high 30s low 40s!
As Pam says there are not many genuinely charming authentic villages on the slopes, especially in France as the altitude they need for the ski resorts means that the villages developed in the more sheltered valleys. As you move further into the continent and eastwards the snowline lowers and there are some beautiful charming villages to be found. And as Pam also says avoiding places catering for the mass market in the UK is usually a good thing if you want avoid Party Land and the "Walt Disney" type theme park places.
So what is it you really have to have and what can you do without? If you have a list of must haves and a list of no way on this earth, people may be able to advise you a wee bit better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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AlanB1976, I've stayed at Brides Les Baines (last Jan) and Meribel (this Jan). Slopes were empty at times on both trips
Brides Les Baines is cheaper but the place is tiny, not much going on, and is right at the base so takes about 25 minutes by gondola to get to the main lifts in Meribel. This means a race to get that last lift back down near the end of day!
Meribel is slightly more but worth it. All the main lefts will be right next to you, which you gives you more exploring time (and make no mistake, in the valleys there is a lot to explore). It also has more going for it in the evening. Highly recommended.
I'm off to the 3V next year as well, but this time I'll be staying at Courcheval.
Hope that helps!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| AlanB1976 wrote: |
1. I would class myself as intermediate with the other 2 being beginners. So ultimately, we are looking for places that have quite a few runs aimed at that.
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Personally with two beginners in the group then I'd look at making 'the process' as easy as possible for them - i.e. finding accommodation which is very easy to get to / from ski school. There's more than enough to worry about / forget / pfaff / stress over than making it hard to get back to /from. Plus it makes it easier to 'go out for an hour' in the afternoon - after all learning to ski is a pain in the butt..
Similarly i would suggest going with a tour operator, as again it makes the process easier as they can sort out thing like lift passes, kit hire etc. Again you're right to focus on places that are easy to learn at / progress on so I might suggest, whilst it's never going to tick the boxes in terms of scenic etc, you could do a lot worse then booking here - http://www.crystalski.co.uk/ski-resorts/france-ski-holidays/la-plagne/terra-nova-plagne-centre/ lots of availability, kit hire place in the building, right on the nursery slope and only a short walk to ski-school meeting place. Options to have lunch there as well, or reasonable number of places to eat lunch within walking distance. Had some friends stay there last year (repeat visitors) and they liked it.
Do you have an idea of budget? I always think courchevel 1800 is a great place to learn because of the terrain but it's not exactly cheap
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi AlanB1976,
It's quite simple really
We'll do you a trip to the Dolomites in a 4 star hotel in Madonna Di Campiglio (the top resort in Italy) with swimming pool, leisure centre, etc - with flight out of Johannesburg (Oliver Reginald Tambo International) to Venice via Munich. Not sure where you are in SA so worked out the cost from JoB.
Cost 1 week (based on 3 people in 1 twin room and 1 single room)
inc all flights, transfers, lift pass, 4* hotel, meals, equipment, full ATOL cover, etc, etc
£1,500 per person
Cheaper options are available - but I thought you'd like this
Right next to the lift - 50m from the town center - one of the best hotels in the Dolomites.
Click here for more details
You will be able to get this cheaper if you shop around - you can always get things cheaper (and  's the place to find out how)
In the summer we have people from the UK doing the Inca Trail in Peru before going to Equator for a couple of week and then calling in a for a few days in the Dutch Antilles on the way home - so a South Africa / Italy trip in really quite simple.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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AlanB1976, I wouldn't rule out Bulgaria, can't comment on the other resorts there but Bansko has the altitude and the snow making to make it a pretty safe bet. It had a dodgy spell last season but then again so did most of the alps. The infrastructure is great for beginners and there will be enough to keep you happy. It's also very cheap for eating out, ski school and lift passes etc and even the cheaper hotels/apartments are way bigger than your average French ones and many have pools/spas as standard.
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Wayne, They're in the UK. Tonto.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks! You guys are so helpful. I really was expecting just a "do a google search" type answer. I hope I can help some newbies in the same situation some day
@Wayne, we will actually be leaving from Bristol, so don't need the flights from JHB. Can you do a package from there?
@c0Ka|Ne, I see Thonpsonski (yes, I know I must look at others, just using it as a base ) has trips to Meribel from about £850 each (ski to door, excluding food/drink). Will consider that.
@bertie bassett, That Crystalski package to La Plagna has everything (full board) for £880 each, not bad.
@Guernseyfreerider, will keep that in mind. Although, if I can do the alps in budget, that would be first choice.
@pam_w
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On the whole I find South Africans are pretty good at getting things done for themselves, rather than expecting to be handed things on a plate.
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lol..... I think that is because the government and big companies don't help you at all, so you have to sort things out for yourself
I got no problem with organising my own holidays. Problem is that this type of holiday is so different to anything I've organised to far, I'm worried that I overlook something that would seem 'basic' to you, but not to someone that has never organised it. I have no idea on driving in the snow, time needed for such transfers, reliability of public transport for transfers, etc.
So I would like to go with a package the first time, just to get a feel of everything needed. I understand that I will be paying a bit more. I don't like it, but think it might be needed the first time. That said..... how much do you think you can save with doing it yourself. For example, if the package tour ends up being £1000 each (for everything), how much do you think you can organise that same trip for... just roughly?
Problem with avoiding the mass-market places is that the only places I have heard of are due to the advertising and being mass market :S
If I had to list my priorities, they would be...
1. Hotel/Chalet and location. Guaranteed snow on lots of slopes. I also definitely want the place close to lifts and a walk into town. I hate walking in ski boots (at least the cheap ones I usually end up in). So I don't want to have to walk far or get a bus to the lifts. We would also like to be able to walk to some nice bars/restaurants. The pretty village isn't that important. As long as the place is clean and decent and the room doesn't have paper thin walls where we can hear everything from a mile away.
2. Budget. I am not looking for the cheapest place, but can't afford a lot of what is out there. Is it possible to get everything (excl. food/drink) for about £800 to £900 each in Austria? Some of the French deals had everything for about £700, but if the food/drink will make up the difference, I'd rather be in Austria. Again, we don't need the most popular or prettiest place. As long as it's decent, got nice slopes and there are some nice bars/restaurants, that's perfect. Also don't mind hotel or chalet. As long as it's not sharing rooms or WC with strangers (I don't mind sharing eating areas).
From what I've gathered here, early March will be better than late Jan in terms of price/crowds, but will still have snow (if aiming more Eastern alps). That could work out fine. I'm just worried about risking the snow. Definitely don't want that.
I'm starting to run in circles now.... so much info. If I stick to a package deal (or you guys transfer us  ), what area would you say would fit to my priorities? From there, I can see what resorts are offered from the different package places. So far I got...
France - Meribel - Ok for beginners.
France - La Plagna - ? Got that link to the all-in place. Don't know about the area though???
France - courchevel - Good for beginners. Expensive, unless booking self catering and having car to do shopping on the way up.
Austria - Saalbach - Expensive. Packages cost about £1200 each
Austria - ??? - Don't have any other areas to reference. Also don't see anything else besides hotels with most of the package places (didn't look too hard though). Might have to consider a DIY holiday if I want in Austria. Any advise on reliable public transport links between airport and resorts?
Thanks again!!!
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Pretty villages and "guaranteed snow" don't really go together,
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They do at Obergurgl in Austria. On my first ever hol with Mrs MA I was after somewhere picturesque with reliable snow that would make her want to come back skiing - Obergurgl worked a treat .
In terms of Alps on a budget from the UK, it can be done! The following will not be everybody's cup of tea but we've done it and had a great week:
Cheap January flights with easyjet to Geneva.
Hire car.
Stay in valley town in France like Moutiers (eg see Ibis Hotel, operated by Accor Hotels) for cheaper eating and drinking than up the mountain.
Drive to skiing each day - eg:
- 20 mins to St Martin de Belleville for accesss to the 3 Vallees with 600km of piste.
- A bit longer to Valmorel for very picturesque village and decent enough ski area.
- 25 mins to Bourg St Maurice for easy funicular access to the massive Paradiski area (which comprises La Plagne
and Les Arcs).
- 45 mins to Tignes Les Brevieres for access to Espace Killy (comprising Tignes and Val D'Isere and 300km of piste)
La Rosiere (which has cross-border skiing into Italy) is also near Bourg St maurice - but I can't recall how long it takes to drive there....
One other thing, any of the higher resorts across the Alps will have decent snow in January - totally snowless winters are very rare. Even last season wasn't as bad as was painted in some of the more hysterical reports. I have skied every January for the past 24 years (covering about 15 countries) and have yet to encounter poor conditions.
Happy booking - let us all know what you decide!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
From what I've gathered here, early March will be better than late Jan in terms of price/crowds, but will still have snow (if aiming more Eastern alps). That could work out fine. I'm just worried about risking the snow. Definitely don't want that.
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Just to explain further, obviously in March there's been more time for snow to accumulate, so base depths will usually be greater than earlier in the season, I find early March the most reliable time for getting fresh snow, although at the same time temperatures are usually a bit warmer than January (which can sometimes be REALLY cold) - btw this still counts as Winter temps, not Spring. There is usually plenty of snow left even mid/late April, you don't have to worry about early March.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Great. I think I will try aim at March. I don't mind the cold (if we end up going in Jan) but my wife might complain.
@mountainaddict, sounds good, except for wanting to not to drive the first time. I still might end up driving and organising things myself if I can't get a decent package within budget though.
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| AlanB1976 wrote: |
| @Wayne, we will actually be leaving from Bristol, so don't need the flights from JHB. Can you do a package from there? |
No, sorry. There's no Bristol flights available.
Gatwick would be your nearest, to Verona as it's only 90 mins from resort for the transfer
Oh, well, good luck on your search
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You know it makes sense.
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AlanB1976, if you want to go early March, avoid France - peak crowds.
Meribel - be careful about location. some chalets are a long way from the lifts. furthest I've ever walked in ski boots, that's for sure (and that was only partly because I hadn't taken enough notice of exactly where the chalet was - they all looked exactly the same, bit like a British suburb, and did go slightly round in circles  )
I don't personally think Obergurgl can be called "pretty" - it's like lots of high villages (including the one where we have our apartment in France). It's not too full of high rise blocks and has been built in a largely "sympathetic" style, but..... just call up any of the resorts you're interested in on google images, then you'll get a fair idea.
Given your requirements I think you should forget about "pretty villages", actually. Meribel certainly isn't one - and neither is it particularly great for beginners; can be quite intimidating getting down to the "Rond Point" area at the end of the day.
Given that you plan to go out of peak holiday times there's a lot to be said for waiting till much nearer the time, when you can get a feel for how the snow is going. A late discounted "package" for 3 people in a chalet should be readily available, if you are not set on any particular destination.
If you do a DIY package you don't necessarily need to drive - there are loads of taxi firms which will pick you up and take you right to your door. That's by far the easiest way. In some places a car is a big help, but if your accommodation is close to the lifts/slopes they're just a liability, especially if there's a lot of snow. Coping with snowdrifts and chains is not much fun for your first trip.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hey and welcome, ill keep it short. France can be reasonable, but i really didnt like skiing there, at the risk of sticking to stereo types.....yeah, i didnt like the people, were rude and skiied like nut cases, very dangerous. Austria and switzerland i loved, but jungfrau is far too expensive. Solden, in austria would be good for your party, great atmosphere, people were great (one skiied over to check i was ok after a very spectacular off piste stack! - even got my ski!), food on the piste was good and reasonably priced. Lovely resort! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Togger wrote: |
| Solden, in austria would be good for your party, great atmosphere, people were great (one skiied over to check i was ok after a very spectacular off piste stack! - even got my ski!), food on the piste was good and reasonably priced. Lovely resort! |
I like Solden for the same reasons as you (although you find considerate people everywhere, in my experience), but I think there are better options for beginners, with a larger proportion of easy terrain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The 3Vs
Courchevel is numerous resorts, the biggest and most expensive is 1850, there are also 1650, 1550 and la Tania and le Praz (1300) IIRC. These are all in 1 valley (the left side of the 3 valleys on the piste map). Meribel is 1450m and is in the central valley with Mottaret (1750). The right side valley has many resorts: Val Thorens (2300!), Les Menuires, St Martin and others. There is another little valley with yet another resort. They are all totally interlinked - if you aren't paying attention to the signs, you won't know which resort you are in.
Meribel is, I think, the most English resort in the whole Alps - essentially where rich southerners send their youngsters for the season. Courchevel 1850 can be vv expensive for drinks/snacks/food. It is full of rich Russians treating everyone else like a peasant in the wrong week (Russian NY - mid-jan). Val Thorens is the highest resort in the Alps, so definitely trading pretty resort for snow-sure and ski convenience! Les Menuires is cheapest and more tower blocks in the mountains.
Piste maps for the area: La Tania has a big british seasonnaire following so has a good website in English for general 3Vs info.
http://www.latania.co.uk/skiing/pistemaps.htm
This area is quoted as the biggest interlinked resort in the world (ie you don't have to get any busses to access all the runs - just skiing and lifts) so for a first time skiing in the Alps could possibly be described as overkill!
Rest of the Tarentaise
On either side of it are another 2 massive interlinked resorts; Paradiski (Les Arcs + La Plagne) and Espace Killy (Vald'Isere + Tignes). I've never been to Paradiski but lots of regular contributors are experts. You can't ski between the 2 areas, you get a cable car but each area on its own is huge. Espace Killy is famous for having lots of steep terrain, Val d'Isere certainly isn't the best place in Europe to be a beginner and again it's quite expensive and overrun by the English. Being the very last ski resort on the road the French go somewhere closer. La Rosiere is also in this area but I only know of it by repute (see threads passim if you must)
All these areas are a long way from an airport (like 3 hours transfer) so DIY it and transfers will suddenly be a significant cost. You can get the train from London to Moutiers or Bourg St Maurice but since you will be in Bristol you would have to get there first. See Mountainaddict's post above for info on these. Many massive French resorts are much closer to airports (eg the PDS & Grand Massif from Geneva, ADH & LDA from Grenoble).
Chalets
These are essentially a British idea so are generally found in the resorts with big UK custom bases (ie many big resorts in France and the Wilder Kaiser [Soll, Westendorf and many others] and Arlberg [St Anton] in Austria only).
Austrian resorts are all smaller than French ones because their Government decided many years ago that landscaping the mountains to fit in ski runs wasn't going to be allowed any more, whereas the French Government encouraged it. (Does it still?) Also the Austrian mountains are a little smaller so no 2800m verticals there. This does mean quality over quantity, there are quite a few boring ski runs in France - politely called cat tracks. I've not been to Saalbach but there are others who know lots about this and other Austrian areas.
Austrians stay in small hotels and French stay self-catered or in hotels of any size. The French think the idea of trusting a weeks holiday cuisine to a spotty teenager is a mark of our inferiority!
Probably a few generalisations in there but hope it helps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@what...snow, phew, so much more info.... thanks. Will go through it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AlanB1976, just a quick suggestion....Mayrhofen? A quick search shows Neilson offering 3* HB Kristall Hotel, F + T plus ski pass for £624pp. You would need to factor in getting to Gatwick as they don't seem to fly from Bristol. I didn't look at Birmingham. I stayed at the Krystall - very pleasant, quietish, good food, nice wellness centre. The bus stop is right outside for access to the main lifts otherwise it's a 10 minute walk. Very handy for the train station/bus station should you wish to go further afield - all included on the Zilertal Ski pass.
There are probably many options for Mayrhofen - a decent sized town with a good variety of entertainment for most tastes. Didn't find it overly expensive and actually quite inexpensive in some places.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AlanB1976, I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works now...
The Dolomites, Italy. Probably the prettiest place to ski in the Alps.
I know crystal/Thom fly from Bristol to Verona. I just had a quick look and there's quite a few options well within your budget and which fulfil all your criteria.
http://www.crystalski.co.uk/search/sr.60
There's a couple which look particularly intersting:
B&B at Hotel Olimpia in Cortina looks good value for what is probably Italy's swankiest resort
Chalet Vanadis in Selva which is chalet board with single rooms, which is fairly unusual.
You might also want to look at the Alta Badia region which is great for beginners but a bit pricier.
(I can get distracted when working from home)
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Austrian resorts are all smaller than French ones
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Well, he did mention "generalisations". I think you can safely ignore that advice. Big Austrian resorts are bigger than small French resorts - fact. It is also a fact, astonishingly enough, that even in France (and probably Italy too) people will help you after a crash. It is true that in the big French ski factories people can be pretty offhand and not very helpful - probably because of the quantities of supremely rude and arrogant Brits they have to put up with. The sort of people who make absurd generalisations having skied in a couple of France's hundreds of ski resorts. Like saying that all Austrian resorts are overrun with drunks in the evenings. Some might be, sometimes, many won't be.
AlanB1976, whether a taxi transfer will "cancel out cost savings of DIY" depends on lots of things. First, most of us don't DIY to save money - DIY holidays can be "tailor made" with the exact ingredients you want, so it might be cheaper than a bog standard Crystal package or hugely more expensive.
I'd go along with the posts which have suggested that you'd find a catered chalet an enjoyable way of spending a holiday (if you like the idea of that, look at the offerings from Ski Olympic, which has a very positive press on Snowheads, though I've not been with them (or any other TO) for some years now. They are not the cheapest, but they are not very expensive either, and they seem to provide consistent good quality. If you ring them about what you're looking for you'll get sound advice.
But it's if you want to rent an apartment and eat out at different places in the evenings and/or cook for yourselves that the DIY option really comes into its own. There is a simply vast choice of apartments, everywhere, and it's far simpler to see at a glance what it's going to cost you. A decently equipped apartment, with two bedrooms, close to the skiing in one of the smaller resorts need not cost you much more than £400 a week (for the whole apartment) whereas a TO will add major under-occupancy charges because a 2 bed apartment with a sofa bed will sell as a 6 or 7 person apartment.
The "headline prices" for apartment holidays in brochures will always assume you are cramming the place.
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Oh - and I'd agree with the spanner thrower too; the Dolomites are sublime. Extraordinarily beautiful mountains.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wayne, come off it. There are loads of threads where people give all kinds of reasons - other than saving money - for DIYing. They include greater choice, flexibility, not having to be herded around, preferring to drive, wanting to get away from the British hordes, avoiding the big week price hikes, etc etc etc. There are also good reasons for going for a package, especially for first timers. Lots of arguments either way - it only gets tedious when people get overly evangelical and insist Their Way is the Only Way.
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FAQ
