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Ski brochures, a thing of the past but so much better than the web.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Got home this evening, looked through my post and have the "peak retreats" winter 2011_ 12 brochure.

It's fantastic, photos on paper are so much nicer than on line, page 83 is fantastic.

I want to go skiing.

Title changed to avoid confusion.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 27-07-11 13:45; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My wifes arrived this morning and i was desperate to open it
Catching a glimpse through the cellophane cover was teasing me.

I will have to check on page 83. Beautiful twin peaks maybe?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Honestly, it's great.
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I will spend ages looking and then remember i am "off" France because of the prohibitive expense.

Shame as i love France and is the only other language i have any command of.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've never seen lesbian identical twin sister porn on paper Shocked Nuff said Twisted Evil
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Scarpa wrote:
I've never seen lesbian identical twin sister porn on paper Shocked Nuff said Twisted Evil


Do you not have any mirrors to hold the mag up to? I couldn't see myself in a house with no mirrors.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Scarpa wrote:
I've never seen lesbian identical twin sister porn on paper Shocked Nuff said Twisted Evil



Squint a bit?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I could always just drink until I saw double wink


If I drool it could even look like the watersports version Laughing
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I like the new marketing name... twinsest LOL
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Scarpa, Thank you for that, I think I have found out what is causing you the pains and swellings.


My original point was more how much better photos are on quality paper than on a screen.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I can't see many more years of brochures being produced as a matter of course ... even given the scope to show off great photography.

I nearly binned mine this year - there are so many other things I could spend the money on that would either generate new guests more effectively or enable us to better look after existing ones.

Based on last season's figures only about 15% of new bookers (i.e. people who had never travelled with us before) requested a brochure before making a booking. Research and decision making is being done online.

That said, I do like a good brochure! ... and ours, ahem, is going to look stunning Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ctskifam wrote:
I can't see many more years of brochures being produced as a matter of course ... even given the scope to show off great photography.

I nearly binned mine this year - there are so many other things I could spend the money on that would either generate new guests more effectively or enable us to better look after existing ones.

Based on last season's figures only about 15% of new bookers (i.e. people who had never travelled with us before) requested a brochure before making a booking. Research and decision making is being done online.

That said, I do like a good brochure! ... and ours, ahem, is going to look stunning Toofy Grin


I agree economically makes no sense, I just love the photography, and have placed the brochure in the small room downstairs for further enjoyment.

page 83 http://www.peakretreats.co.uk/docimgs/Maurienne%20Valley_001.jpg

Very Happy

I look forward to receiving your brochure to join it.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
We would be honored to have our brochure on display in the small room chez lightningdan!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The peaks look like cats’ ears. They are the bare, rocky summits of Monts Colombier, Margériaz and Julioz. They are the centrepiece of Les Bauges, a parc naturel régional, took a picture of them 20+ years ago when the transfer bus broke down. Taking lots of pic kept the BP within reasonable levels until we got to Geneva airport still have the negs but they were on a 110 so cannot reprint the pics.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
lightningdan, Our same brochure arrived this morning and I have been glancing through it a few times today - it has not gone into the recycling bin as so many do. Well put together an I agree its easier to sit and read than access on the web.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Sorry to say, but the PR brochure went in the bin as soon as it arrived. We've been sorted for next season for ages. Paper/web brochures come out *far* too late for keen skiers.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ctskifam wrote:
Based on last season's figures only about 15% of new bookers (i.e. people who had never travelled with us before) requested a brochure before making a booking. Research and decision making is being done online.

That said, I do like a good brochure! ... and ours, ahem, is going to look stunning Toofy Grin


Interesting stats Chris - our research with Crystal shows around 50% of our customers (new or returning) book having seen a brochure, and lots of people still use both brochures and websites in tandem. They are still very important to us, especially to provide a travel agent presence, although everyone's different of course.

** Shameless plug - the Crystal W11/12 brochure came out yesterday! http://crys.tl/pqRNn0 **

On the Crystal website we tried to make the images of resorts and hotels as big as we could before the download time police reigned us in. Wondering if people think this works? (USA tends to have best photography)
http://www.crystalski.co.uk/ski-resorts/usa-ski-holidays/copper-mountain
http://www.crystalski.co.uk/ski-resorts/usa-ski-holidays/breckenridge/beaver-run-resort

Cheers
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
David

We booked with Crystal. I always book with the latest brochure at me side, in conjunction with the travel agents and the web. Sometime that means because we book so early we're looking at last years brochure - but it's close enough.

Noticed that the 'Full' brochure was out rather than the preview, so I had a look on line at the holiday we've booked. I've yet to get to the travel agents to get a real one.


I know brochures are printed a long time in advance, so I didn't expect the recent flight changes to Canada to be included, but the piste map for Jasper in significantly out of date. There's been a new lift installed last year (so this will be it's second year of running) that's not shown and the news lifts for this year aren't shown.

Is the brochure online not the same as the current hard copy?

I've always taken the piste maps to be reasonably current - Am I the only one doing this? Lifts make a huge difference to where I'll book (don't do drags!)
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Hi Vicky

Have been talking with Michael Brabin our Product Manager for the States (who I think you know from our own forum?)

The issue we have with piste maps is that the resorts' own versions tend to come in all shapes, sizes and colours which isn't so useful for publishing to brochure & the web in any consistent and easy to read way. So Crystal has always produced it's own versions in a consistent style. We tend to do these every year or two in batches as it's more cost effective that way - despite what you might think getting these maps drawn isn't cheap!

Anyway, Michael says that Jasper have been updating their lifts pretty regularly and there's even another change coming this winter for next.

So we're due to look at whether we can add the resort's own maps to our ones within the website, which means you get all the info.

As regards whether the brochure and online info are the same, it tends to be that the online version is more current as we publish two or three times per week, but we do use the same source for both.

Hope that's helpful.

Regards
David
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Very helpful

Just as a note - Inghams have updated their piste map - added the two coming lifts for this year - removed one that was removed last year - but failed to put in the lift that replaced it. Which was a big deal at the time due to the length and speed of it!

So yes I understand that it's hard work keeping track. You do a pretty good job. I'll continue to use the brochures - It's part of the holiday!!

(Bit worrying that all my contact with Crystal is starting to link up - I'll be blacklisted soon as a difficult customer!!! But Michael was very helpful and very quick with answers) Very Happy
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SnowboardVicky wrote:
I'll continue to use the brochures - It's part of the holiday!!

(Bit worrying that all my contact with Crystal is starting to link up - I'll be blacklisted soon as a difficult customer!!! But Michael was very helpful and very quick with answers) Very Happy



Agree, the brochures are definitely part of the holiday and part of the excitement and anticipation people have which unfortunately isn't something that can be replicated through a screen.

Re the contact linking up - hopefully this shows we are trying to serve our customers in an intelligent way rather than being Big Brother-esque!! Definitely not a case of "difficult customer", to be honest we love the interaction, very much a part of who we are!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Jarvis, I think a brochure is almost certainly more relevant for larger operators.

When you have a choice of 100+ destinations all with a choice of properties and flight options a brochure probably helps the decision making process enormously. I have 11 properties, all of which operate along the same lines (catered chalets with inclusive childcare), in two destinations with no flights included. Very different.

In addition the ROI sums probably stack up quite differently for a small direct sell operator with a limited offering. The cost of designing, printing and distributing a brochure could be used for a lot of other things.

None the less ... here is our 2011.12 offering (I too can blatant plug!) http://tinyurl.com/sf2011-12 (PDF - 2MB)
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Chatting to the folk from www.mountainheaven.co.uk last week they have decided not produce a print brochure at all this year.
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boredsurfin, not surprised - their reasoning would be pretty much as per my argument above I suspect. I'll ask their MD Nick to get me a beer off the back of all of the money he's savedwhen I see him next month!
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ctskifam, The nice folk in Montalbert bought me a drink, so I guess Nick will be pleased to be buying you one Laughing
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One good idea is PDFs on the website for each area or chalet, as they can be saved/printed. Also, I know it may be hard to sort, but tiny piste maps, either in brochures or on websites are soooooooooo annoying - whats the point? Make it big!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
leedssteve, Even better would be a map showing the location of each chalet/hotel the lifts and ski school meeting point etc.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
boredsurfin, Yes it would! merinet.com has a pretty good town map like that: http://www.merinet.com/gif/listings/meribel_maps/map_meribel.pdf - gives you a bit of an idea of walking times etc
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just annoying it doesn't show the bars etc.....
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
leedssteve, Yep most resorts do a map of some kind, strange how TO's are shy of pointing out actual property locations Toofy Grin
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boredsurfin, Laughing yep, strange
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
boredsurfin wrote:
leedssteve, Yep most resorts do a map of some kind, strange how TO's are shy of pointing out actual property locations Toofy Grin


Implies perhaps TOs don't want customers to know?!? THat would be self-defeating now wouldn't it?

More the case that the content is difficult and costly to manage and keep up to date...

It's something we're looking at though.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
David Jarvis,
Quote:

More the case that the content is difficult and costly to manage and keep up to date...

Agreed, it's a b*gger when the Chalets move around isn't it Laughing

Heres an example from your current brochure where a map would help.

Residence Aspen, Plagne Village.
Location

• ski to the door • 3 minutes walk to Plagne Village and ski school meeting point • 15 minutes walk to Plagne centre


Ski to door ?? Really? There are certainly no pistes near the property
3 minute walk... Across bridge, uphill through a car park with no pavement and into village. 3 mins if fit and in Summer imho.

15 minute walk to Plagne Centre? much less! 3 mins to the free lift 2 mins in lift and then 2 mins into Plagne Centre shops.

All much clearer if a map was provided. Very Happy


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 4-08-11 10:24; edited 2 times in total
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David Jarvis wrote:
boredsurfin wrote:
leedssteve, Yep most resorts do a map of some kind, strange how TO's are shy of pointing out actual property locations Toofy Grin


Implies perhaps TOs don't want customers to know?!? THat would be self-defeating now wouldn't it?

More the case that the content is difficult and costly to manage and keep up to date...

It's something we're looking at though.


Surely all you need to do is stick some markers on a map no? Obviously there is a little work involved, but that's what we're paying you for wink
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dave Jarvis, For La Plagne (and I would guess other resorts) you could direct them to the excellent resort website feature!
http://www.la-plagne.com/plagne_go/plagne.html
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boredsurfin, that site for La Plagne is great. However, it still doesn't show elevation very well. IIRC Belle Plagne is stacked up on top of itself with a lot of stairs to climb yet the aerial photo makes it appear pretty flat and level. The same thing happened to me in Bad Gastein where the main lift on the map was just 50m from my hotel - but it was straight up! So alternatives can be just as misleading.

I'm not saying it couldn't be better - just that I don't think there is a perfect solution.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Tiger2 wrote:
boredsurfin, that site for La Plagne is great. However, it still doesn't show elevation very well. IIRC Belle Plagne is stacked up on top of itself with a lot of stairs to climb yet the aerial photo makes it appear pretty flat and level. The same thing happened to me in Bad Gastein where the main lift on the map was just 50m from my hotel - but it was straight up! So alternatives can be just as misleading.

I'm not saying it couldn't be better - just that I don't think there is a perfect solution.


If you look on our website we have implemented Google Maps so that you can see where things are, but I'll readily admit it is buggy right now.

http://www.crystalski.co.uk/ski-resorts/france-ski-holidays/la-plagne/residence-aspen-plagne-village
Click on the "Location" tab - then you have to drag the map up and right - right or left! - a bit to see all the accoms in La Plagne.


The issue we have is not that Hotels move around, it's more that in order to show what people want - ski schools, bus drop off points, equipment shops, bars, restaurants and so on, across 144 resorts, is quite a bit of work. On top of getting that set up, some of these places do come and go, change names or go out of fashion.

But as I said we're looking into ways of doing it, including using "User Generated Content"
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
David Jarvis wrote:

But as I said we're looking into ways of doing it, including using "User Generated Content"


Excellent - I'll happily add known spring dog poo piles in French resorts I've visited.
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Hard copy brochures allow you to browse. So many TO web sites want you to name a destination and a date first + number of PAX - then they go off and check for flight availability, then accomm, then eventually give you a quote.

The wrong way round in my opinion - browse by country/resort then think about seeking a quote is my preferred way of doing things. The Crystal web site is better than most for my way of browsing. Some just don't allow it at all.
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