Poster: A snowHead
|
Ok, please be gentle with me!
I'm 54, I've been skiing for around 30 years now, usually just one week a season & mainly French Alps, been using my own skis most of that time which have ranged from cheap & nasties, thro the old straight Rossignol VS 6's, (190's) a few years of hiring various basic carvers & for about the last 8 years or so my Elan SCX Terminators (150's & are apparently a monoblock construction which means nothing to me), these were sold to me as a slalom ski when I bought them (second hand) - no idea if that's an accurate description or not. I ski mainly on the piste tho' enjoy a bit of local off piste thro little gullies, thro the trees & stuff, but never any really serious off piste (did the Vallee Blanche a few years ago), I can do stuff like skiing backwards, spinning round & smallish jumps but really don't see me making the next freestyle world championships!
I ski a lot faster than most people (tho' I've little doubt many of you lot would blow me away) & have been out with a few ski guides that I felt perhaps I should be guiding them! I've enjoyed using Big Feet & some 99cm blades with fixed bindings, more recently tried some 120cm Salomon mini twin tip skis with a proper binding which I had great fun with & I felt they were almost as good on the piste as my Elan Terminators - I'm sure many of you will say that is utter b*llox, but that was how they felt to me.
So question is what do I replace the Elans with, I'm, I'm seriously thinking of something like Pale mini skis at 133cm, (yes I know what some of you have to say about blades etc.!!!!!)I've skied long skis (the 190's) & much prefer the shorter 150's & 160's which I've used in the last 10 years (I'm about 65kg & quite an aggressive skier), but think a shorter ski can be more fun - bear in mind that I'm skiing purely for fun, not competing with anyone & not intereted in the fastest way down the mountain. I also don't want to spend fortunes on something that is only going to be used once a year, I don't want to hire as I don't want to waste the time in the hire shop every year, plus, I have found hire skis to be of very variable quality.
Also can someone please tell me something about modern skis, what is the physical effect of stuff like sidecut, turn radius etc & what the heck are rockers & what do they do??? I've seen people say on here that for a good general piste ski you want a turn radius of around 20m, yet many of the common & reasonably priced skis seem to have a turn radius much lower than this (often only 12 - 15), I can't find a spec for the Elan's but I'd guess they have a pretty small turn radius & they really changed the way I can get thro' a mogul field (ie fast & standing up rather than slowly & on my ar*e!) & they turn brilliantly on piste, but I do struggle with them in the soft stuff (I find they sink, which may well be my technique rather than anything to do with the ski)
So any suggestions & information would be appreciated, I can ski, but know very little about what is under my feet & I feel stuff has moved on technologically that I know nothing about!
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Some (mostly mine lol) thoughts on some of your questions here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1807059&highlight=turn+radius#1807059
As for rocker:
Traditional skis are curved so that if you put them base down on the snow (with no weight on them) the tip and tail will be in contact with the snow, with the middle up in the air (this is known as camber). This helps generate rebound out of a turn when the skis are flexed, so is good for piste skiing. Rocker is the opposite of this, so base down the tip and tail would be in the air - this helps the tip float up in powder/rise up over dodgy snow/make the ski looser and pivot quicker in powder/etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Russbost, Hi, If you only ski one week per year, I will recomended to have your own boots, very good ones, and hire skis, you can try different skis, and you can every year have the best one.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
clarky999 wrote: |
As for rocker:
Traditional skis are curved so that if you put them base down on the snow (with no weight on them) the tip and tail will be in contact with the snow, with the middle up in the air (this is known as camber). This helps generate rebound out of a turn when the skis are flexed, so is good for piste skiing. Rocker is the opposite of this, so base down the tip and tail would be in the air - this helps the tip float up in powder/rise up over dodgy snow/make the ski looser and pivot quicker in powder/etc. |
Thanks for that I've been following some equipment threads and wondered what it meant!
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Russbost,
You are embarking on a long and tortuous, brain-tangling journey where you will discover things you never knew needed to exist or worse, never realised you needed to know needed to exist. (Less than a year ago, I was there too).
But , even in the deepest, darkest, coldest crevasses of frustration during that journey, stick with it cos these Young Fella Snowheads will lead you into a place of sunlight, blue sky and untracked slopes. Knowledge is powder!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You sound like me about 2 years ago, but you are much lighter than I am.
I'd say some good and short skis will give you a similar sensation to the blades you have tried - blades are fun, but they are no use for off-piste. If you want to play on them, just get a separate pair to chuck in the suitcase, or rent some for the occasional days you want to have a bit of fun with them.
It sounds like you want a piste ski that can do a bit of off-piste stuff, without having to use particularly long or wide ski that you aren't used to. As such, I'd suggest for someone of your weight and style that you look at something around 160-170cm, with a waist around 75-80mm to get the piste performance and they'll just about cope in the softer stuff.
You describe yourself as aggressive and fast, as such I'd look for a relatively stiff ski at this length, otherwise you will find yourself with skis chattering at speed.
All this is pointing me towards a ski like the K2 (I like and know K2 skis so will pick from their range) Apache Recon, Apache Crossfire (either of these if you are looking secondhand), or from the new range the AMP Shockwave or Rictor. Other possible is the Dynastar Legend Sultan 80.
If you want to do more offpiste then you'll have to go wider to get more float, but that means you'll lose some of the edge hold on piste.
Ultimately the best option is to get to a proper demo day, with a range of brands there, a range of skis in different lengths, and give a few pairs a try side by side. Without skiing them, it is a bit of a guessing game to find something that you personally like and have confidence in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: |
Description
True versatility and performance describe the SCX Terminator. A new dimensional design and boot mounting position, combined with an advanced integrated plate system propel these skis into the next millennium. Designed for the advanced to expert looking for a powerful platform under the foot. Exceptional edge grip for harder snow and the versatility to maneuver in bumps or through the glades, the SCX Terminator has an innovative flex pattern combined with the Torsion Stabilizer Inserts to increase the quickness and the power off quick edge sets. A versatile performer in all terrain and snow conditions, with an SCX pedigree. Engineered Specifications * 3-D Wood Monoblock Construction * Integrated Composite Plate * Torsion Stabilizer Inserts * Parabolic Sidecut * Tip-waist-tail width (mm): 105-62-105 * Sizes: 153, 163, 173, 183 * Sidecut Radius (m): 10, 11, 13, 15 (by size)
Picture and Description for Model Year:
1999
|
http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/product-archives/ski-equipment/older-alpine-skis/all-mountain/elan/terminator/prd_547_6493crx.aspx
If you have the above ski then the radius for the 153cm length is 10m.
Such skis are often called a fun or SL Carver
The skis lsited in this german test might appeal .....
http://www.testberichte.de/a/ski/magazin/skimagazin-5-2010/239332.html
There are really so many skis out there with so many different 'flavours' that it's probably best to try a few (from a shortlist) and make your own mind up. Rental shops will normally let you try a few different pairs per day and deduct a percentage of the rental cost from any ski purchased - but best to negotiate any such deal before hand.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Hi.
Rent skis. Why carry them all over the place. Most resorts have a great selection of rental skis.
So long as you have your own boots you're good to go. (Have boots will travel!)
All skis go left and right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanx for the info so far guys, keep it coming!
What effect does sidecut have & what are the effects of having a ski which is narrower in the waist, ie more difference between the shovel & tail & the waist.
Yeah, have my own boots (probs changing them this year too but lets just not go there at the moment!!! )
Presumably having rocker rather than camber helps to land jumps particularly if going backwards??
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Quote: |
What effect does sidecut have & what are the effects of having a ski which is narrower in the waist, ie more difference between the shovel & tail & the waist.
|
That IS sidecut - the shape of the ski. It affects turn radius, the more sidecut/shape, the turnier the ski.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Russbost wrote: |
Thanx for the info so far guys, keep it coming!
What effect does sidecut have & what are the effects of having a ski which is narrower in the waist, ie more difference between the shovel & tail & the waist.
Yeah, have my own boots (probs changing them this year too but lets just not go there at the moment!!! )
Presumably having rocker rather than camber helps to land jumps particularly if going backwards?? |
Rocker is mainly for offpiste conditions (tips don't dive so much).
Generally .....
Short ski with fat tails and shovels with skinny waist = short radius = drives like a go-kart but easier to catch edges. Skis like to be on edge. Tranversing very steep slopes can be a problem as middle of ski doesn't bite. Can be very nervous at speed and difficult to control in the offpiste (some skis have dual radius to main it easier e.g. Scott Mission).
Long Ski - shovel and tails nearer waist dimension = longer radius = harder work to get short turns in but easier to control in high speed longer turns. These skis often have a rocker to improve offpiste float.
There are of course many different types of skis inbetween these two extremes. Sounds to me that rocker is something you would like to have as opposed to something that you "need" or something that will benefit your type of skiing. A twin tip pipe/park ski might be worth tyring, esp if you are jumping & riding switch est.
This link might help explain more.
http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/downhill+skis.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
That link is great - should be made a sticky to educate numpties like me & save people asking daft Q'S!
Ok, you've talked me out of anything like the Pale short skis - I have a pair of blades if I want to go play!
Couldn't find any availability on Google or Ebay for several of the skis mentioned unfortunately, particularly in sub 160 lengths
Does anyone have any experience of 2011 Blizzard Cross Rides? Can't find any reviews for them (not in English anyway?) & what is swing weight (amount of force required to turn the ski??? at a guess?) & how do you get that information or calculate it?
Thanx for all the info, I'm starting to get a picture of the sort of thing I should be looking for, is there an info database anywhere to give info like rocker/camber & the like - many adverts don't mention it!
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Russbost, I think you're probably asking a question that is impossibly broad (except re the Blizzards) and you're at best going to get a lot of biased and potentially conflicting advice.
I'd ask myself the following questions:
- What sort of skiing do I do - be honest , everyone does a bit of offpiste but where do you spend the majority of your time?
- What sort of conditions do I ski in?
- How good am I? Again be honest 1 week a year for 30 years doesn't equate to a 30 week skier who's done 10 weeks of intensive skiing over 3 years nor does fast relative to your mates make you fast in absolute terms or fast but with precision control at all times.
With the above in mind find a decent magazine equipment section and broadly identify the sort of skis you want - probably something that they now call "all mountain" might suit. Then think about wider under foot v narrower (broadly more variable conditions v more piste biased), Longer sidecut v shorter (speed/stability v turniness). If you "need" rocker you'll probably have already identified it in your skier type (caveat there's probably a bit of shakeout still to come on "recreational rocker" and whether it proves to be a good thing) Then go and demo, it doesn't matter if they've not got a particular make /model you've shortlisted you can try skis with similar characteristics and learn a bit about what works for you. Ignore magazine/internet hype here.
Otherwise do what most Brits do - buy whatever a mag says is good/a mate recommends and ski them in blissful ignorance. There aren't many bad skis after all and if they're not working for you it's probably you that's the problem not the skis
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Quote: |
Couldn't find any availability on Google or Ebay for several of the skis mentioned unfortunately, particularly in sub 160 lengths
Does anyone have any experience of 2011 Blizzard Cross Rides? Can't find any reviews for them (not in English anyway?) & what is swing weight (amount of force required to turn the ski??? at a guess?) & how do you get that information or calculate it?
Thanx for all the info, I'm starting to get a picture of the sort of thing I should be looking for, is there an info database anywhere to give info like rocker/camber & the like - many adverts don't mention it!
|
Probably aren't that many adult/male skis under 160 tbh, that's really short! Generally longer the better for offpiste which you mention you like.
Swing weight is a bit like how much inertia needs to be overcome to swing the skis - weight in the ends etc. Only really worth thinking about if you're spinning to win in the park, or doing loads of jump turns on super steep stuff.
If a ski has rocker, the advert will mention it (in fact some skis with essentially no rocker will still try and claim it...). If nothing is mentioned about rocker (sometimes referred to as reverse camber btw), assume the ski has none.
Good advice fromfatbob above, you need to narrow down the sort of skiing you do, where you like to ski, where/how/what you aspire to ski.
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Ok, there's something I'm not getting here, what is the obsession with long skis??? Is it a male prowess thing, some sort of peeing contest? Why would I want a longer ski? I'm 54, weigh 65kg & stand at 5' 6", I've had 190's which were way too long for someone of my size & weight (got talked into them by a ski guide ) & hated them, the only thing they were good for was hurtling down a well groomed piste at ludicrous speeds or for getting the edges in on really icy stuff, as soon as conditions were anything less than perfect (apart from ice) they were real hard work.
I can't see that a length of 160 - 170 is going to do much that's positive for me, other than, perhaps, to make off piste a little easier, but is almost certainly going to make mogul fields harder & be generally harder to manoeouvre on the piste & thro' crud etc. The Terminators have been great, the only downside being that they are a little twitchy on a fast schuss, but they improved my mogul skiing dramatically - I was actually able to keep up with my kids again! Unfortunately, they are a bit like me - getting old, tired & a bit long in the tooth! & I do struggle with them off piste.
As already said the bulk of my skiing is on piste, but if something can make off piste significantly easier, which I don't think 10cm on the length is going to do, without sacrificing too much on the piste, thro' the moguls & in the snow park then I'm all for it
If something around 150 -155 is going to be hard to find in a male adult ski then should I be looking at junior skis or ladies skis perhaps (could get some nice pink ones with something like Trixi or Bunny on them)? Or will they simply not be stiff enough?
I'm not going to rush out & buy anything straight off, but getting some sort of a short list of requirements, even if not specific skis, would be a definite starting point!
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Russbost, I am very similar to you - 54, 60kg, 5ft5, used to ski with straight 185 skis in the old days. Couples of years ago I bought a pair of Volkl Supersports in 160 length, they are great, pity Volkl stopped making them. Last year, I bought a pair of Stockli Laser SC in 156 length, it is fun to ski on them - recommend you to give them a try.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
'Cos short skis suck and long skis truck
In 2007/08 I was still hiring skis, usually around 159cms. Got my first skis in 08/09, when I did my first season - 165's. I found them much better everywhere - more stable at speed, got deflected less in crud and variable snow, and no harder to make short turns. Later that season I got some 176's - slightly harder to make really short pivot turns, but I found I didn't need to so much as the extra stability gave me the confidence to open out the turns and open up the speed more, everywhere, which I find more fun. Also arcing and smashing big turns through crud seems more efficient than bouncing little turns and having to work really hard. Even in moguls I now ski better and faster, and pivoting them is only slightly more work than the 165's. This year I got some 190 powder skis - love 'em. I can now ski powder how I want too (big fast GS sized 'Alaska turns'), and I ski every singly type of piste snow faster, more fluidly, and more controlled - whilst having more fun (the exception is super hard frozen stuff, as they're not as stiff as my 176's). On piste, they're actually even more adept at small turns than the 176's too.
Now, I have 170 piste skis, 176 everyday mess around skis, and 190 powder/offpiste skis. At some point I want to get 180-185 light touring skis. Can't see myself ever going below 170 for anything again, unless I decide to get some slalom skis (which would be 165's). I'm 5 foot 9 and just over 70kg at the moment.
Seriously though, get what you enjoy the most and suits you (and your skiing style) best, but modern skiing style seems to be more about carving the skis turn radius and bigger more open turns, than boshing out short swings/pivots everywhere.
At least that's my experience and opinion, but it could well be bullschite, and your milage may vary. Could be worth experimenting though.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I've seen little guys skiing 190+ modern skis very competently. This is usually a feature of their being full-time or at least every weekend skiers. It's also not absolute length but effective edge that matters e.g. a 175 twin tip can ski as short as a 165 piste ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|