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My Daughter wants to cross over

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My daughter, 14, is a very competent skier and now wants to try snowboarding. I have read the "beginners" post on the section and found it very informative but thought I would just run a few things by you.

Until she gets into it and we understand the board specifications etc I just want to buy her a reasonable board for the price (ish) of a rental. We go two or three weeks a year so a package up to £150 or so would suit us, remember I will also have to pay for lessons too.

I have seen a few setups on ebay which may suit. She is about 5'8 and strongly built and skis on 156's so thought this size board would suit as I suppose the weight distribution is the same (in principal). I do not want a cheap board from new and would rather get a good used one, I can fix and tune this if necessary. As I say she skis well and understands the concept of weight distribution and edging/carving so I think she will pick it up quite quickly.

Do you think that the board size would be OK, or a shorter one better?. I suspect that almost any binding would fit any board but am looking at a board/binding deal. Of course she would need boots too but are they the same crucial fit as ski boots?.

We would probably go for private lessons, I appreciate it depends on her progress but would you think that say one or two hours a day for two or three days would bring her to a competent standard?.

My neighbour who works abroad will assist with binding and stance setup etc when he returns in the summer so it would be good to get a board in time for him coming back and we hope to have a go at a snow dome prior to our first trip.

Do you think I am taking the right approach?, any advice would be appreciated.

Regards

Bas
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mrs cad99uk is 8st, 5' 4" rides a Bataleon Violenza 149

I am 12st, 5' 8" and ride a Goliath 157
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
cad99uk, Daughter is closer to your weight than Mrs cad99uk so looks like I am considering the right size board.
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Basil, if she did a "learn to board in a day" course at one of the fridges, she'd get a good feel for it, and for the type of gear which would suit her, and could talk to the instructor and her fellow learners. Seems a bit OTT to buy the lot before she's even set foot on a board. It's a very tough day but she sounds well capable of dealing with it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Basil, As for boots they need to fit well so that there is no heel lift. I find that any heel lift makes riding harder on flat tracks.

So fit is important but they will be more comfortable than ski boots wink
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Basil, And a copy of Go Snowboarding by Neil McNab is a good start.
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Quote:

a copy of Go Snowboarding by Neil McNab is a good start

especially if she rides goofy.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w, Buying may seem OTT but I'd have to rent anyway. Buying her own will also be part of a Christmas present so will kill two birds with one stone (tight wad). A day at a fridge seems like a good idea, might even have a go myself.

cad99uk, I'll look that book up, but I just love the advice available from Snowheads.

Cheers all.
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Basil, I would suggest your daughter uses wrist guards and impact shorts from the start. Oh and a helmet....
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Basil, the cost of the "learn in a day" course includes gear. And it's possible she'll hate it! Without ever having tried it, it might be hard for her to choose boots, in particular (we'd never advise anyone who'd never been on a pair of skis to buy boots, would we, because they would have no idea what they were supposed to feel like).

IME most people have snowboards rather shorter than their skis. Though your daughter is on very short skis for her weight/competence so maybe she's an exception.

Yes, why don't you do the course too? I dare say you're resigned to the likelihood of your daughter learning 10 times as fast as you. She'll ache less afterwards, too (I could scarcely get up on my elbow to get a drink of water 48 hours after mine). I agree on the wrist guards and impact shorts, too. And the helmet, obviously. Your head hits the snow unbelievably hard if you catch a back edge when facing uphill and therefore supposed to be on your front edge. wink
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Basil, snowboard length is primarily dependent on weight, not height. If, as you suggest, she's not far off 12st then a 156 would be about right. A little bit shorter would be OK, especially for a beginner.

You also need to consider shoe size. Unless she has enormous feet for a girl, you want to be looking at boards with a maximum waist-width of around 254mm, ideally less than that. Bindings do also come in sizes - generally medium below about a UK 9, small below about a 6.

Board/binding compatibility can be more of a mine-field than you might thank. Most brands use the standard 4x4 system (4 holes in a square pattern), but Burton (the biggest snowboard brand) have 2 different proprietary systems - either 3D (3 holes in a triangle pattern) or the newer ICS channel system. Basically any non-Burton binding or any Burton binding which isn't ICS-specific will fit on any non-Burton board. If you have a 3D Burton board, then it's USUALLY possible to put just about any binding on there, but it might take a bit of bodging to get a non-Burton binding to fit. If you have an ICS Burton board, then you need an ICS Burton binding. Clear as mud?

You should be able to pick up a 2nd hand board and bindings for about £150 if you shop around, but you won't get boots for that as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Basil, UK lessons will speed things up for when you hit the mountains. Even dry slopes will be ok as she will be able to develop edging & balance skills. This time of year she'll be on near 1-1 lessons as group sizes can be small.

As with skiing it's best to get decent boots first and then worry about board and bindings. But on the subject of board and bindings I picked up an ex hire set-up for my first board from Boardwise.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I would agree to take the lesson first, there are so many choices on sizes and shapes of boards that if you know nothing about it you're not going to make a good choice. She is going to have lessons but with who? Some places will run the Burton "learn to ride" scheme and they provide boards which are short, soft and slightly rockered to make turn initiation easier for beginners to get the hang of things. This is good for a few days but you wouldn't want to own one. You also don't want to buy a board which will be too long and stiff for her to initiate turns on as a learner and they may well be too unforgiving and she'll not enjoy the process at all. I have a feeling that this purchase will turn out to be a false economy for everything but the boots. If your boots don't feel right your whole experience will be terrible. On boots go to a shop where they have a wide selection of different brands and try all of them on, don't let her choose by color or brand but by the way they fit. The post mentioned above about Burton boards and bindings is also very relevant, as the biggest brand out there most deals seem to come from Burton, but you find that you are stuck forever after buying their bindings to match their boards, don't get me wrong they have a huge choice at various price-points but don"t assume that is you want to upgrade something next year the newer kit will be compatible with the old.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
hmm. Maybe a dry slope would be OK - I never tried a dry slope on a board, though I enjoyed dry slope lessons on skis. But several members of my family who had boarding lessons on a dry slope found it unpleasant. They weren't wimps, either. They went on to get good, quickly, on snow. I suppose a lot depends on the particular slope, on the day.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Basil, +1 on the lessons first - the board in a day is a great idea. you should be aware though that one day (probably) won't see you cruising down the slope, so perseverance is the key.

as far as gear buying goes, boots first. there's no point in having the best board etc if you're hobbled by a poor pair of boots, either falling around in oversized wellies or crippled by pain. buy the pair that fit the best. i'm sure there are threads with fitting guidelines on here.

as far as board sizes go, it's pretty much all about weight and what you want to do on the board. for mucking about in the park the board and learning will be slightly shorter, for all mountain hoonery longer. i'd suggest buying an 'intermediate' board rather than a 'beginner' since you grow out of the beginner board very quickly. once you've decided visit the manufacturers website and check the size you should have -the manufacturer will have weight ranges for each board length.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Re the bindings, you can get discs that fit both the 4 screw and Burton's 3D systems, my Burton bindings came with one, fitting fine on my Nitro board. You can also get adapter kits to make any non-EST binding fit a Burton ICS board.

Get her to do one of the board in a day course, I did one and by the end of it those of us on the course were linking turns on the main slope. Not smoothly by any way, but enough to be able to get out there and practice, and within a couple of hours practice out on the slopes I was linking turns down blues smoothly and tackling some reds.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w wrote:
hmm. Maybe a dry slope would be OK - I never tried a dry slope on a board, though I enjoyed dry slope lessons on skis. But several members of my family who had boarding lessons on a dry slope found it unpleasant. They weren't wimps, either. They went on to get good, quickly, on snow. I suppose a lot depends on the particular slope, on the day.


Yep, unforgiving when you fall. But you shouldn't be falling in lessons until perhaps you start trying to link turns*, which I agree is much easier on snow. However, all the elements up to that point can be drilled and will give you a big head start on snow.



* and that's usually because the student has postural issues that will need addressing sooner or later.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Basil,
If nothing else, get her boots; the rentals are totally bu**ered & this will seriously compromise the learning curve.
The bindings on the rental boards ( at least in the UK fridges) are also pretty knackered, so if you are looking for some pre resort learning , probably best to get new board + bindings. Do some research & get the right board for a beginner ( i.e easy flex, rocker + not too long).
If using board in a fridge for any reasonable amount of time, get step in bindings ( flow, k2 cinch etc) as this will seriously increase your slope time.
Good luck.
Mitch
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All the advice above is very interesting and appreciated, thanks all you are very kind, please keep it coming.

Mitchell, what is/are the difference between step-in and other binding types.

From a lesson point of view as we are based in Wiltshire the fridges are all pretty much the same distance away (MK, Tam and HH) so would be happy to go to any one based on any recommendation anybody might have.
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I wouldn't go for step in or flow bindings. Step in are old tech I think, Flow are good, but there's no need to have them, and they are a PITA in powder or steep slopes. They also have a habit of falling apart. It's really no drama to come off a lift and strap in with traditional bindings, and (just) IMO simple is better if you need something to be bombproof. I actually found it to be a lot harder with my kids, albeit younger, to use flows, because it needed parental help to get them done up, when normal bindings were fine.
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Just done a bit of googling and discovered the binding arrangements available.

hang11, Thanks for your view, and I can see where you are coming from. What I get may be determined by which board/package I buy, then of course which boots I will then need.
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Don't hold back on the boots, get good quality and good fit before the board/bindings - way more important to have happy feet.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Basil,

Step in bindings save all that messing about with the ratchets on their bindings you see most boarders doing at the top of the lifts etc..
Once proficient , I suspect you can 'strap in' pretty quickly BUT definitely nowhere near as fast , or easy, as 'step in's'. It seems the technology has improved over the last few years & likely most issues have been resolved. If you are learning in a fridge they are a godsend & will save loads of time.
Ignore negative comments & have a look ( judge) yourself. For some reason the step in type seem to be like 'marmite' ( or frequently refereed to as 'Gay') to the snowboarding fraternity.
If you look up 'K2 Cinch' bindings, you will see they are a mixture of both ( step in & traditional strap).

Mitch
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The Cinch design seems to be the most obvious design of binding I have seen, similar in concept to early ski bindings, surely there are other brands with similar designs, unless of course they have a "weakness".
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I have a K2 Luna and it has glitter on it and is very pretty Smile

I would recommend wrist guards and knee pads - I would avoid the dry slope for learning on, you get enough bruises on snow - smashing onto dendex will be agony!
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Quote:

smashing onto dendex will be agony!

with a high probability of dislocated thumbs and fingers. A fridge is the best place to start, if not on real snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Would never go to a dry slope, just don't seem right to me. Fridge it is until December.
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Basil, FWIW my two sons were very keen to try snowboarding (aged 16 and 11, competent skiers, with about 4 weeks experience). To avoid the potentially unecessary hassle and expense of booking lessons/equipment for the holiday which may or may not prove worthwhile, we booked a 2 hour lesson at Chill Factore ahead of time. It showed them that they didn't like snowboarding! I think part of that was the feeling of going back to basics and being beginners again, but in any case, it was worthwhile. They may try again in the future, but for now are happy being OK skiers, rather than beginner boarders.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Basil,
There is a 'fastec' binding that is similar but seems to get some not so good reviews on quality issues.
Mitch
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Anniepen,
I can understand how coming off ski's to try boarding may not work. The first hour or so on a board will have you thinking, "no way is this possible", but it soon comes if you stay with it.
Also what doesn't help is that the rental kit ( at my local slope at least) is absolutely knackered & this definitely doesn't help the experience.
My motivation was that I have never been able to get ski boots remotely comfortable ( usually in lots of pain) despite several pairs & various levels of custom fitting.The snowboard boots are just a revelation for my feet.
To really see if you like boarding I doubt the 'taster' lessons are going to tempt at lot of people. I read somewhere that the conversion rate for people trying out snowboarding ( who then take up the sport) is approx 15%..................that seemed very low to me.
Mitch
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Basil wrote:
Just done a bit of googling and discovered the binding arrangements available.

hang11, Thanks for your view, and I can see where you are coming from. What I get may be determined by which board/package I buy, then of course which boots I will then need.


Get the boots first, then the board/bindings. Not all boots will fit every binding as they all have different footprints.
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I agree you need a day's course to be sure whether you want to do it - you get nowhere much in 2 hours. Teenagers are also maybe less likely to tolerate the "being beginners again" sensation than either small kids, or adults with the mentality of a small kid, who don't mind falling over on the nursery slope for a few days. Boarding is a very different business, especially at the beginning, more physical, more tiring, more painful. with the right motivation none of that is a problem for a strong teenager but if the motivation is to stooge around looking cool then it might not survive the first day. wink I certainly wouldn't buy either boots or a board for somebody who'd never been on one even for half an hour.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
^ I think they just perceived boarding as being a bit cool so wanted to give a it a go, but they didn't feel very cool actually doing it! I don't board, but it's always seemed harder to get to a reasonable level, than skiing did. Elder son is also dyspraxic so the fact that can ski (when various health visitors, paediatricians etc., had warned it was unlikely he's ever be able to master something requiring a fair level of co-ordination rolling eyes ) is real confidence boost for him. He did find it harder than most, so the feeling of being back at the falling-over stage again, wasn't much fun. They can always give it another 'proper' go if they want to
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Anniepen, it's actually quicker to reach a reasonable level on a board than skis. i was down blues on day one, reds on day three and first black on day 5. ok i wasn't carving with grace and style, but neither did i side slip down the edge of the black. i think it took longer than that for me on skis (if i can remember that far back Embarassed )
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<sneaks> Threaten to disinherit her, that should do the trick Wink </sneaks>
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hang11 wrote:
I wouldn't go for step in or flow bindings. Step in are old tech I think, Flow are good, but there's no need to have them, and they are a PITA in powder or steep slopes. They also have a habit of falling apart. It's really no drama to come off a lift and strap in with traditional bindings, and (just) IMO simple is better if you need something to be bombproof. I actually found it to be a lot harder with my kids, albeit younger, to use flows, because it needed parental help to get them done up, when normal bindings were fine.


This is such old news and probably relates to designs maybe 10 years ago, my Flows are step in and have straps, so easy to step in to off lifts and easy to take on and off in powder and steeps. The only bindings that have broken on me were hire strap bindings.

If some one wanted to try out boarding for a day in a fridge in UK I would seriously suggest a set of step-ins.
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I thought step in bindings refers to the ones with clips on the board and metal on the boots (like spds on a bike pedal) so you literally step on the board and you are clipped in? Not sure they make them any more.

Flows or the single ratchet ones like k2 cinch do seem to be a good solution but I have never tried them myself. A couple of friends have flows and do seem to struggle with them occasionally when not on the flat but that may be down to user error.

Otherwise as said above buying equipment without even trying snowboarding seems a bit of a waste, unless you can find some very cheap. The couple of people I know who can ski and tried snowboarding quickly went back to skis. I think you have to really want to do it to make the change.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Basil wrote:
The Cinch design seems to be the most obvious design of binding I have seen, similar in concept to early ski bindings, surely there are other brands with similar designs, unless of course they have a "weakness".


Thinking more on this I remember some old rear entry ski boots used a cable closure system too.
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Why??? The 'gay tray' will soon be resigned to history. It might resurface every few years when young trendies go on a nostalga trip.

Buy her a trick set of park skis and some 'Sweet Protection' togs, she'll be the coolest thing on the hill. wink
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david@mediacopy wrote:
Yep, unforgiving when you fall. But you shouldn't be falling in lessons until perhaps you start trying to link turns*, which I agree is much easier on snow. However, all the elements up to that point can be drilled and will give you a big head start on snow.

* and that's usually because the student has postural issues that will need addressing sooner or later.


Quote:
Would never go to a dry slope, just don't seem right to me. Fridge it is until December.


David's is good advice. Balance and edge control can be reasonably well learnt on plastic, prior to visitig a fridge. The "snow" in fridges is not the best to learn boarding on either, merely better than plastic. A local dry slope will get her underway, without having to wait until December. Padded shorts, good gloves (perhaps even padded/armoured motorcycle type) and a helmet are essential.
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