 Poster: A snowHead
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As there are moves underway to finally bring together the various coaching qualifications together how about a thread to discuss what BASI, the home nations and the IVSI are heading and doing.
what the differences are in the pathways and anything else to do with "coaching" instead of "instructing"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, FWIW I spent a fair while looking at the different options and the home nations info just gave me a headache  Course availablilty and support seemed very sporadic,localised and 'clubby' not at all what you would expect from a profesional national organisation.
Maybe its just me but the BASI 'product' seems better designed, orginised and supported. The weakness I do see though is the lack of requirement for shadowing hours at the lower levels (something simmilar to the Instructor pathway) but then maybe i have just misread the course notes? Im booked on the BASI level one (coaching) in Aug so im interested to here what people made of the course
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 9-06-11 19:06; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kevindonkleywood, I think it makes more sense for clubs to organize the entry level UKSS courses by themselves or combine with nearby clubs to get the numbers than to just put dates on the calendar. My club is planning to run a UKSS L2 Performance Coach course at some point this summer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skimottaret, in the Eurotest thread wrote: |
It wasnt until i got to training for my ISIA tech that I learned that the ISTD tech is as hard or harder than the ET... NOBODY tells you this when you start out in BASI and NOBODY tells you that work is highly restricted and bears little resemblance to BASI website.
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Most of your focus (and that of many others) on the politics of it here has been on the ET, but the first half of that quote really puts the lie to that. I've also heard of plenty who got the ET but then took a few years hard training to get the Tech. So to me it looks as if the focus of your campaigning is wrong - it should be whether ISIA is good enough to work as an instructor - if it's good enough for the ISIA why isn't it good enough in the Alps?. But of course the French are not going to buy that one...
As you know I started on the BASI Coaching pathway, did L1, then realised that its direction was very focussed towards mountain stuff, which of course is entirely reasonable for a full-timer. Until I retire, however, I'm only interested in coaching as a part-timer as a change from the day-job, so that's going to be dry-slope only. SSE stuff is way more focussed on the racing and the local club scene, so the SSE path is way more sensible for me. But that requires a basic instructor qualification first  . I had originally decided that the instructor (as opposed to coach) stuff was not for me, so decided not to do BASI L1 Instructor, but did SSE L1. In retrospect that was probably a bad idea, as I now actually really quite enjoy the beginner instruction (although that could still be a bit of the excitement of the novelty).
The trouble is that SSE seem organisationally a complete shower. I'm still struggling to get the paperwork completed nearly a year after starting with them (partly my own fault, but no action from them in the last 5 months!). L2 instructor courses are few and far between, and I see nothing on L2 coach since this time last year - and their documentation is self-contradictory on what the pre-requisites for doing it are! And even once you've got a way up that (with e.g. a Level3 coach or instructor, which on paper seems a pretty high level) it seems you are still only qualified to coach within a club context. The hoops you have to jump through to get to that level do seem to be just as exacting as the parallel BASI route (certainly well higher than BASI L2, but maybe not ISIA), but BASI opens up more opportunities. So now I'm starting to revise my opinions about what I should be doing yet again. Maybe I'll go back and have a concerted crack at BASI (instructor L1/2 and Coach L2) next year.
kevindonkleywood is there a typo in your intentions...from your sig I gathered you were already BASI L1... or do you mean L1 Coach course?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, In what context other than a club would you have wanted to use a coaching qualification ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, yep level 1 coaching (edited)
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rjs, I was thinking more about the instructor stream that you have to embark on before being able to concentrate purely on coaching. Part of the contradiction in their pathway is that the block diagram says just L1 instructor then onto L2 coach, the coach course description says L2 Instructor as pre-requisite.
But, I guess if I were that concerned I'd just ring them up  .
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rjs, for ISIA+ BASI have a coaching requirement element so for some it may be a hoop jumping excercise
I would tend to disagree about the 'dates in the calendar' comment but that may just be because I work such a strange work pattern that fitting in courses needs months of pre planning. I like to be able to see the schedule of dates and either book vacation or bend my work life to suit. The sporadic nature of what should be a nationally coordinated qualification makes it somwhat more difficult for some like myself.
GrahamN,
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The trouble is that SSE seem organisationally a complete shower
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Sadly that has been my (outsiders) view
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kevindonkleywood, the L1 Coach course is (or was when I did it, 3 years ago) a bit of a mixed bag. It's clearly aimed at just getting you into the system, as an initial stepping stone to go on from there. As it's a very short course there's very little in the way of developing your own skiing during the course (unlike what I've heard/seen of other BASI courses). The main pass/fail stuff is whether you can carve decent SL and GS turns. The level's not particularly high though, so provided you're a half-decent carver you're fine. From what I've seen (not done it myself; I changed tack, as described above, at about the point I was considering doing it) the L2 is a huge jump from there though.
There's also stuff I found very useful about how you'd structure a coaching session, and then Ross (who was doing my course) essentially put us through a bit of a training session developing our own skiing illustrating how to go about introducing and developing new stuff with a group. Classroom stuff put a bit of theory behind that, and an ethics/management session. The final day was us all running coaching sessions ourselves, with the other candidates as guinea pigs. The irony of the course structure is that the one thing that was not assessed (formally anyway) was our ability at...coaching. You get some pretty good course notes and background drill lists. This was all directly from CSCF, but not sure whether any of that has changed now the BASI/CSCF link is not what it was.
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| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
| rjs, for ISIA+ BASI have a coaching requirement element so for some it may be a hoop jumping excercise |
I know, it reduces the numbers of regular candidates that used to make it easier to schedule the equivalent UKSS courses.
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| I would tend to disagree about the 'dates in the calendar' comment but that may just be because I work such a strange work pattern that fitting in courses needs months of pre planning. I like to be able to see the schedule of dates and either book vacation or bend my work life to suit. The sporadic nature of what should be a nationally coordinated qualification makes it somwhat more difficult for some like myself. |
I would expect a club to wait until they had a few candidates, ask them for a few possible dates, book a trainer for one of these dates then advertise the date to fill up any excess places. We will be doing this.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
skimottaret, FWIW I spent a fair while looking at the different options and the home nations info just gave me a headache Course availablilty and support seemed very sporadic,localised and 'clubby' not at all what you would expect from a profesional national organisation.
Maybe its just me but the BASI 'product' seems better designed, orginised and supported. The weakness I do see though is the lack of requirement for shadowing hours at the lower levels (something simmilar to the Instructor pathway) but then maybe i have just misread the course notes? Im booked on the BASI level one (coaching) in Aug so im interested to here what people made of the course |
Is that at Hemel 26th to 28th Aug? If so I am on it and at least 2 others from Welwyn....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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scooby_simon, sadly not its the Cass one
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| As there are moves underway to finally bring together the various coaching qualifications together how about a thread to discuss what BASI, the home nations and the IVSI are heading and doing. |
Do you have any info on what's being proposed ?
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You know it makes sense.
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I might go to the Hemel one to shadow! But still working on it 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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i hear good news is coming re the BASI and home nations coaching pathway... stay tuned
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, Free cookies on every course you have to do?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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On BASI website, coaching courses page
-"Status Update 5th Oct 2011
Outline detail of the new BASI Coaching Scheme was launched at the Snowsport England Coaching Conference in September. Work continues on the detail of the scheme with the HNGB’s, however we are in a position to confirm requirements for BASI Level 3 ISIA and BASI Level 4 ISTD Members as follows:
For BASI Level 3 ISIA – the only requirement is to do the Level 1 Coaching Module (and not Level 1 and Level 2 coaching modules as previously required)
For BASI Level 4 ISTD – the requirement remains the same and both Level 1 and Level 2 coaching modules are required
If you already hold one or both of these awards (Coaching Level 1 and Level 2 ) they are still relevant and acceptable and you are not required to resit them."
This was news to me and not very widely publicised.
Is the course content going to remain the same though? Or will some of the level 2 syllabus be moved into level 1 ie. course setting?
Looks like I've completed an ISTD module already then before completing my ISIA L3 - LOL 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pfairbrother, If I'd have known about the announcement I'd have made an effort to go to the conference ! Fingers crossed that's a couple of less modules to do..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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also soon to be announced is that the SSE and BASI L1 coach will be the same and equivalent in future.
pfairbrother, The L1 for ISIA and L2 for ISTD makes so much sense and like you it is great to have an ISTD module under my belt 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's crazy the legislation concerning snowboard instructors in France. A foreign (not French) snowboard instructor can apply to teach SB in France, a French snowboarder either has to get qualified as a ski instructor or go abroad (to Switzerland for example) to get qualified as a snowboard instructor before applying for a licence to work in France!
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pfairbrother, the answer from BASI is as follows:
The course content for the L1 will remain the same and the L2 course will now be 6 days long.
L1 will be required for ISIA and L2 for ISTD.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
beanie1, are you saying that the Alpine Level 2 Instructor course is reduced from 10 days to 6?? Our that the Alpine Development Coach Level 2 increases from 4 to 6
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No beanie1 is referring to the coaching L1 and coaching L2 courses
Is the coaching coaching L2 award I completed this year now insufficient for ISTD then? will I have to do the new L2 course despite having done the "old" L2 quali ?
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| pfairbrother wrote: |
Is the coaching coaching L2 award I completed this year now insufficient for ISTD then? will I have to do the new L2 course despite having done the "old" L2 quali ? |
Yes; if you read the coaching page on the website; Current awards still stand; thus you have the coaching component of your ISTD.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pfairbrother, you jammy git 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pfairbrother, as scooby_simon says if you already have L2 coach you wouldn't need to do it again. I have mine too 
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| Free Skier wrote: |
| It's crazy the legislation concerning snowboard instructors in France. A foreign (not French) snowboard instructor can apply to teach SB in France, a French snowboarder either has to get qualified as a ski instructor or go abroad (to Switzerland for example) to get qualified as a snowboard instructor before applying for a licence to work in France! |
Sorry but this somehow gives the impression that its easy to become snowboard instructor in france, where the fact is france is one of the hardest countries to gain the required merits.
Your right though, it is crazy, a french ski instructor can just teach snowboarding with little or no experience in the sport. A UK national however has to jump through far more hoops than a french national.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Sorry but this somehow gives the impression that its easy to become snowboard instructor in france, where the fact is france is one of the hardest countries to gain the required merits.
Your right though, it is crazy, a french ski instructor can just teach snowboarding with little or no experience in the sport. A UK national however has to jump through far more hoops than a french national.
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What I meant was that French snowboarders who do not ski have to either become qualified as French ski instructors (which is impossible if they specialize in snowboard and can't ski well) or go to a different country outside of France to pass a snowboard qualification before requesting a French instructors licence giving them the right to teach snowboard. As this is a British forum this fact is probably not really of much interest to the majority but for the French Snowboarders it's very frustrating.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was surprised when my work tried to get me teaching a snowboarding lesson before i'd even snowboarded for a week myself! Crazy ESF......
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