 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mmmm I might be wrong but Gordon Ramsay might disagree on that point, there a quite afew great chefs who cook and ski during the winter and then return to top class restaurants during the summer
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Not in TO-run chalets they don't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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livetoski, indeed but they are chefs... not 18yr olds fresh out of Hotel Du Mere et Pere
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not in TO-run chalets they don't
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right. I have a son who is not any kind of Michelin chef, but is very good at cooking. He has worked in restaurants in the past, and done a lot of sushi, in particular, but he's not a professional cook at present. He has done a couple of seasons (one in Val D'Isere, one in the 3V) and gets paid infinitely more than a TO chef PLUS gets good accommodation (his "staff quarters" in one job were a lot posher, bigger and better equipped than our little MGM apartment). He works through an agency, who finds staff in response to requests from owners. One of his employers was a Parisian banker. This last season, because he's working more or less full time on a Ph D he just did a half term week in Courchevel, after a last minute fairly desperate phone call from the agency. He said the snow was very poor, and he was unfamiliar with the kitchen and had no time to "stock up", so he just cooked. No skiing. He enjoyed a week away from computers, he said the clients were nice and appreciative, and it was great to spend a week paid quite a lot of money, and his travel expenses, to cook lovely food.
He initially, at the start of his first season, was recruited to work for Mark Warner but their attitude and his didn't gel and he quit half way through the "training week" and worked freelance from then on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Not in TO-run chalets they don't
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right. I have a son who is not any kind of Michelin chef, but is very good at cooking. He has worked in restaurants in the past, and done a lot of sushi, in particular, but he's not a professional cook at present. He has done a couple of seasons (one in Val D'Isere, one in the 3V) and gets paid infinitely more than a TO chef PLUS gets good accommodation (his "staff quarters" in one job were a lot posher, bigger and better equipped than our little MGM apartment). He works through an agency, who finds staff in response to requests from owners. One of his employers was a Parisian banker. This last season, because he's working more or less full time on a Ph D he just did a half term week in Courchevel, after a last minute fairly desperate phone call from the agency. He said the snow was very poor, and he was unfamiliar with the kitchen and had no time to "stock up", so he just cooked. No skiing. He enjoyed a week away from computers, he said the clients were nice and appreciative, and it was great to spend a week paid quite a lot of money, and his travel expenses, to cook lovely food.
He initially, at the start of his first season, was recruited to work for Mark Warner but their attitude and his didn't gel and he quit half way through the "training week" and worked freelance from then on. |
Let me know if he has any difficulty for 2012 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yep had a enquiry from someone who claimed to be a michelin chef.. I actually check though, I had no reason to think it wasnt true.
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There is a recruitment agency in the UK that specialises in Chefs that have cooked in award winning restaurant kitchens. Obviously, there is no such thing as 'michelin chefs'. 
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nixmap, I don't think he works for free.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
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Yep had a enquiry from someone who claimed to be a michelin chef.. I actually check though, I had no reason to think it wasnt true.
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There is a recruitment agency in the UK that specialises in Chefs that have cooked in award winning restaurant kitchens. Obviously, there is no such thing as 'michelin chefs'. |
Im not sure about that, apparently chefs get awarded too. In any event I didnt check up either way, my point is that you may be surprised about the quality of skilled people wanting to work in the mountains for a season.
Same goes for yacht crewing, which turns out equally easy to staff, depending on he work load.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agreed on both sides here, there are 18 year old chalet chefs who just do the TO mountain cooking course and there are chefs like my son who have chefed since they were 14 and all they wanted to do was ski and chef at the same time. There are a number of chefs out there that do this, and as mentioned some go on and do the summer season on the private boats on the med.
If you have your skippers or master ticket as well as being a good chef, you can name your price really, we know one guy who gets around 10,000 US a month cash and all expenses found during the summer months.
With regard to Michelin stars and AA rosettes its the restaurant that is awarded them, but many chefs are reffered to as michelin chefs as they gain their star when with a certain restaurant, or own them, Ramsey has I think approx 12 Stars across his empire now.
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Have just done a search into Chalet Chefs and employment contracts, landed here. No surprises there! Snowheads seems to have it all.
Wondering, and I think the question has already been asked in a roundabout way...but is there such a thing as a template chalet chef contract? There's such a thing in yachting, seafarers employment contract, which is a requirement under fairly recent (2006 - now everyone is ACTUALLY following the guidelines) and it protects employees from being stranded/unpaid/overworked/falling ill from living in horrendous conditions/job misrepresentation and....so on. I'm not a chalet owner, however I do place high end 'michelin trained' and all kinds of private chefs in positions around Europe.
Any words of wisdom? My Q is of course related to a real scenario. ...
Thoughts appreciated.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@alyefs, my son does occasional high end cooking jobs in the Alps and works for a guy who runs an agency which provides staff of all kinds. He gets paid extremely well but the agency gets paid even better. Around 4k euro a week last time I heard! They seem to trust each other - I once dropped him in a chalet in Courchevel. He knew clients were Russian but no idea how many, or where he was going to be sleeping that night. He had to prepare the evening meal for full complement - 15 - but there were 6 of them, speaking no English, French or German. He's good at coping with uncertainty! I'd have a nervous breakdown. I get the impression quite a lot of it's like that. Personal contacts and reputation.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w, Very interesting Pam. I never expect to be paid that much I must admit. The staff wellbeing is top of my list, so at least if they've a trust relationship already established then they are part way there. He's lucky to have you! My initial focus was on marketing for high end chefs. May want to have their own PR/comms agent as they never have time. It's quickly evolved and now act on both their behalf and the client's behalf. It's good to know your son is up to the challenge!! Sturdy individual, if he can do that he'll be just fine )
I used to do it...loooong ago! It is, all down to contacts, trust and reputation. I agree.
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@pam w, ps. finally made the move earlier this year. Now ploughing through the various painful administrative aspects!
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You know it makes sense.
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We owned a restaurant in a French resort for a few years.
We had to have French contracts as the business domiciliation was taken to be where the transaction occurred, which obviously was in the France.
Uk chalets deliver the service in France, BUT the transaction can occur out of France. So it's a little less clear.
We were informed by our French accountant that the French Minimum wage ( just under EUR 10 ) is untouchable, and deductions cannot be made for food or accommodation - these services can be provided over and above the wage. The gotcha is that on top of the 67% social charges you pay on top of the wages, you also pay this on the benefits too. Our accountant calculated this at 54 EUR for food and 200 for accommodation. So based on a standard 35 hours it cost 1400 in wages plus about a grand in charges.
So the bare minimum it would cost you is about 2400 EUR p.m. if you do it on the French system by the book.
Dunno what you'd expect it to cost you for a UK contract it you bundle loads of perks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@WindOfChange, Many thanks...I'm not employing anyone thankfully. Though I am interested in the chalet chef employment contracts. I only select and place. They're paid in UK by a UK company. Most UK owned chalets pay around £200-300 per week. Plus all the trimmings. Ski pass, accom, equipment etc, travel, UK insurance etc. But what I'm really keen to find out is if there's an actual standard contract available. It would be a UK version in this case. This is a one off scenario...possibly one I won't be repeating....usual clients are higher end.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@WindOfChange, Brilliant thanks. Not placed anyone with French employers as yet. As I mentioned am on the look out for a UK company standard chalet chef contract. If such a thing exists!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm no expert on EU employment law but if you set up a UK Ltd company make mother in law a shareholder and director then she can be paid in a combination of dividends and directors bonuses. This may only be OK if she is a UK resident the rest of the year. You can give her loans throughout the season and pay them back from the dividends and bonuses at the end of the company year which should be set to be after the end of the ski season.
I assume the company could rent the chalet from you at a suitable rent?
I'm sure I've missed something but happy to learn from more knowledgeable persons.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I can see the confusion here. Had better start a new thread!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 17-12-16 2:56; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@gohuwgo, We're based in Switz? If you are based in Switzerland, why are you asking about French/UK laws or am I missing something? If you are resident in Switzerland then you will need to meet Swiss regulations I presume or not declare what you are doing to the Swiss. All sounds a little grey!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@alyefs, yes, confusion all round. My son is only occasionally a chalet chef - mostly he 's job hunting at the moment. Postdoctoral research post in computational neuroscience. He was very well paid cheffing but I don't think his partner, who is pregnant, would approve of any more alpine forays. One of his favourite clients was a Parisian banker with a dazzling private chalet in Meribel and a great sense of humour.. At new year he worked 36 hours solid for him and loads of guests, brought back to the chalet on a whim. He said the champagne store was pretty impressive and apparently bottomless.
When the clients were in residence there was no question of going snowboarding.
His staff quarters there were far smarter than any ski apartment I've ever seen, certainly including my own.
A different world!
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A few things that I have heard this season:
Its illegal in France to have staff accommodation thats fitted out with bunk beds
Its illegal to boot anyone out off accommodation in winter in france
Each staff member should have a minimum of 6m2 space in staff accommodation
Each staff member should have 2 days off a week
The deduction of rent, ski passed etc is illegal, and the employer cannot be the landlord
Jobs such as chefs are a skilled and a minimum wage of 11.90 euro per hour must be paid (french contract)
No wonder most chalet/ski company owners hate Brexit
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@letelemarker, nothing has changed on the "staff accommodation" front for a few years now so not "Brexit" related and not all of those are correct.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Which bits are not correct? as I said I heard all of the above for the first time this year, even though I have worked out in the alps for about 15 years. I have no Idea whats true and what isn't.
My Brexit comment was in relation the the possible withdrawal of the right to work in an EU country under a domestic contract. Then I would guess the British workers would have to all be on french contracts and the rules harder to dodge.
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Bunks, 6sqm, 2 days, employer not landlord, no deductions but if in doubt double check with your French Accountant/Lawyer.
As for French only Contracts, that one has been rumbling for many a year!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@pam w, Mmm...yes...tagging really helps. It's then easy to identify who's responding to who. I chose to reply on this thread rather than start a new one, as have done so in the past and been redirected to the existing thread! Hey ho...think I'm following now! Your son must be very talented indeed! Neuroscience and high end cheffing? That's what I call multiskilled.
I can't imagine his partner would be all that pleased. The hours are ridiculous.
It's exciting, exhausting, debilitating, thrilling and shortlived in most cases! A good way to travel without spending was how viewed it in my 20s. I can imagine re the gallons of champagne and people being invited back willy nilly (my son's phrase of the moment). Once, whilst working on a Mexican owned yacht in Miami,I was woken at 4am to make snacks for a post casino hunger fest. No such thing as standardised working conditions then.
A different world indeed!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I believe that with La Loi Macron with regards to travailleurs détachés now in force, any wages and benefits would have to adhere to the French minimum, wherever the contract is signed.
A Danish ski company fell foul of French labour laws last year in our resort and have been banned from France.
Your mother-in-law could become an auto-entrepreneur and invoice you. Or, as a family member, helping out, you could work around the problem with a 'logement contre service' approach http://www.olyneo.com/blog/2015/04/logement-contre-services/ .
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Can't you put her through CESU as a 'domestic help' and then it's tax deductible?
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You know it makes sense.
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I hope they sort out this grey area soon. Wherever your business is located you use their employment laws ie offer local contracts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So i am not sure how old this thread is but over the last couple of days my interest in this topic has been increasing.
I am currently half way through my second winter season and have worked for two different companies, one in France and one in italy. Now my previous employee for a chalet job in France has been getting a hard time from my replacement over National Minimum Wage (NWM), i assumed that this guy was a trouble maker and unlikely to make any head way and in an effort to prove him wrong i have found, what appears to be, every ski holiday company basically flouting the law, i am currently trying to desperately find that i am wrong.
Some of you previously have argued that the board, meals and peanuts are a great deal and maybe it is, but if these companies are breaking the law is that ok? are we happy to pick and choose when companies do and dont follow the law??
My problem is that i wouldnt really like to pursue either company in the case that i find they are breaking NWM law as i they are small firms that have treated me reasonably well. I do think however that if the whole industry is getting away with it then something needs to change.
According to the government website NWM is £7.50 per hour, meals, benefits and expenses do not count towards this amount and only about £44 can for accommodation based on it being available 7 days a week. Now based on a conservative 40 hour week (very very conservative) that means my £100 a week wage is far from legal.
also just to throw into the mix for those that havent done a season, unfortunately not all guests are delightful as you people, far from it, its as if they know you are working for less than the NWM and decide to treat you accordingly, doctors, lawyers, academics etc etc all of whom forget to pack their manners.
so .... if anyone can enlighten me and tell me legally why i get paid less than the NWM i am ready to her it, facts though please not thoughts
FYI I am on a UK PAYE employee contract with rolled up holiday pay to boot haha
Grazie Mille
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Poster: A snowHead
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over a year old ... oh well
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FAQ
